2013-03-04, 17:35 | Link #10741 |
Gordita's for Everyone
Join Date: Oct 2008
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2nd origin is plot armor. It was heavily implied that 2nd origin made you powerful passively as stated by gray, lucy, natsu about how they feel stronger and wasn't an activated boost. Erza didn't feel any pain because she Ultear said she already had her second origin(aka she was already crazy strong before hand and didn't need to be powered up.) Basically this opened up in the coming battles for every character who got 2nd origin to go super sayain whenever they want.
Anyways back for the tourney. Someone brought up a good point that Sting takes out juvia, gray, laxus, and gajeel with erza all that is left. Before he takes Erza out he sees lector with milliana and Erza takes him out with FT winning by 1 point. |
2013-03-04, 20:52 | Link #10742 |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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...or even if Fairy Tail does win, they are disqualified as a whole for some of their guild members fighting against the Kingdom, which gives SaberTooth the runner-up 'victory'... And a blow to their ego, knowing that they only 'won' on a technicality. Eat that, Minerva.
And as for the entire 2nd Origin...it would be plot armor if only Fairy Tail members had it, but everyone has a 2nd Origin. Whether they use it or not, or if they can or not, that's up to the individual. Yes, Ultear did bring it out of the Fairy Tail gang, but seriously, it's more akin to plot hax than plot armor...
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2013-03-05, 09:22 | Link #10744 | |
Banned
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Plot armor is when a character is protected from dying due to random, unforeseen circumstances. Second Origin was clearly laid out in earlier chapters, and it was explained that Erza was part of that. This is what we, in Storytelling 101, like to call "Chekov's Gun." What does Mashima have to do? Rip the second origin chapter out of the volume and beat you over the head with it? If Erza has plot armor, then every good guy in every series, ever, has plot armor. Just because you know the main characters aren't really going to die. Your attempt to recast the definition, would make the term lose all significance. |
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2013-03-05, 10:52 | Link #10745 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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well this is really tiresome but looks likes some peoples are reading the wrong manga because read just to complain is being some sort of...
about train in FT: - first FT is not a martial arts, like naruto or DBZ, this means who "traning" is something not really needed or is something off screen right, if you want chapters and chapters of boring traning to see "sweat bodys" and things like that read "MARTIAL ARTS" mangas (specially seinen), FT is like SAO, like Accel World, like Ao no Exorcist where training is something foreshadow. - makarov already stated who for mages the "training" is doe jobs the best way to a mage become more strong is just keep working, put himself in more risk than just wasting time fighting a dummy - Real mages rpg "dont train" they "learn" their powers by spending time looking/reading sources of power (like magic books, scrolls) their are more like levi than natsu or laxus - just because naruto, maybe OP have training this don't means who FT must follow the same pattern ps: damn i need a break then i gonna finish what i want say late. |
2013-03-05, 11:09 | Link #10746 |
Still Alive
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere far far away
Age: 30
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I don't get why people are finding it so hard to accept that Erza's second origin doesn't sit right with some fans/readers/whatever.
I have no problem with Erza owning almost every one of her opponents - I stated my reason earlier. But I can see where people who are complaining that this feels like a hax. I mean, why is her second origin an active skill when it was implied (or I thought it was) that it was a passive power boost. Erza is, for all purposes, as much a lead character in FT as Natsu, if not more. So, things like this powerup are gonna happen. Doesn't mean that it won't seem lame or not look like an ass-pull to some people.
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2013-03-05, 11:40 | Link #10747 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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now about nakama powers, feelings and bla bla bla, makarov again already explained about this, "FEELINGS" is something very important for mages, is like their motivation, u having only "pure power" is something good but only power is not enought, in FT verse Feelings(love, hate, anger and others like in green lantern) have the role of boost the power like a fuel( imagine who the power is a engineer and feelings a special fuel like nitro who make the car/bike run much more faster and strong, then if you relly on power then u are not using your "real full power", the only way to you use you true ability is driving your power trough the feelings doents matter what feelings if love, anger, hate, avarice, what matter is you convictions in this
then like others peoples said just because natsu or erza "throw some random speechs about friendship, this not "nakama power" the only time nakama power appeared was erza agains azuma while she used the tenrou arc agains azuma this was nakama power, just speak loud random speechs about friends is not a power up but their release their true power throughtthe "anger"(for the enemy) and love(for friend, family and lover interest). again makaravo in the little anime arc of daphine makarov clear explained who natstu true power come from his "anger" like "hulk" due to him being a "fire(red)dragonslayer"(who in rpg have a chaotic nature) his true powers appear when he become more anger) this means who most of natsu victorys gonna be aways trough his anger a good exemple on the movie the guy owned natsu many times while he not was enough motivated(angered), when finally after natsu see how crazy the guy was by making the peoples on the city goes in fear and suffer, making eclair suffer and specially LUCY suffer(through eclair suffer) then his anger started to boil and increase his power to him be able to overpower the guy. the heroes aways wins, this a very classic clich in 80 to 90% of shounens and even in western magazines like batman or superman, why no one complain how overpower batman is for a "normal human" again for FT tags: comedy(here is missing comedy)/fantasy/adventure/drama/action/shounen dont have "tragedy or martial or fighting" then this means who you dont gonna see bad things happen, how many times is needed to say who mashima was clear about the ft theme before start to write: bonds, family, friendship, heros wins, no tragedy, much more light than his previous RM work who received many bad critics about have too much drama and tragedy. "but this is not logical" who feelings, bonds, friends, family aways are need for you wins"; you're just being a dumbass indeed shounens manga tend to overdo it however it is still partly true, if not for you then fine you dont have true friends or a good family, for me this partly work, i have true friends and good family who aways helped me when i needed and their are very important for me and aways supported me, if for you this is a "crap" then you like to be "forever alone". second origin is not a "plot armor" was just a funny way to avoid make one or more bore chapters with training, then was more practice make a funny chapter(the celestial world party) then troll the team in the end for the sake of comedy and after this give then a compensation for the joke who is the second origin. and finally complain for something who is part of the work since from the beginner and was clear stated by the writer is at minimum being "immature"(not to speak idiocy) Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-03-05 at 11:52. |
2013-03-05, 12:41 | Link #10748 | |
Banned
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What had people upset, is that they thought they knew how something worked, and they weren't entirely correct. So it is a hate of being incorrect. Erza fooled you, me, Minerva, everyone. To fool your enemies, you must first fool your friends. We should have known something was different with Erza when she didn't writhe in pain during the unlocking. Would I have handled it differently? Yes. But we were given Chekov's gun. I suppose you don't have to like these valid storytelling techniques, but there is nothing inherently wrong with them. So you might try to understand why the rest of us aren't blowing a gasket. |
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2013-03-05, 13:34 | Link #10749 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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We all might as well not have an opinion if it always has to be on only the positive* side of the scale. * or for some series, the negative side
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2013-03-05, 13:49 | Link #10751 | |
Still Alive
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere far far away
Age: 30
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2013-03-05, 16:19 | Link #10752 | |
Gordita's for Everyone
Join Date: Oct 2008
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The thing is though, I GUARANTEE that natsu or anybody else who got second origin is going to use it to use it in the upcoming fights as a power up making them bland. It seemed a lot cooler to use it as a passive boost so there was no asspulls but I guess that is too much to ask from shoen manga. |
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2013-03-05, 16:51 | Link #10753 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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But like I said, that won't be happening. Erza's the only one that's been holding back on using it. Her releasing it doesn't mean it's active thing that needs to be turned on like Lightning-Fire mode. Her releasing it is ultimately no different than the way Laxus turned out to have been holding back against Natsu during the Festival arc. Nor is she likely to have cause to hold back in the future. |
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2013-03-05, 17:11 | Link #10754 | ||
Banned
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As for criticism, see my title. Criticism is good... but only if it is valid. As I said above, I am critical of the FT movie (not so much of the plot itself, but of the execution in several areas), so don't think I simply give FT a pass on everything. You wanted people to understand why they disliked Erza activating her second origin like that... we do understand. We just didn't find it to be a major issue. At best, it is minor. So now try to understand where we are coming from: There was nothing technically wrong or bad about what happened. We were given sufficient foreshadowing that Erza was different than the others, where second origin was concerned. Erza is more of a "smart" fighter than the others, so it is understandable that she would deliberately hold back, using only enough power to do what she needs to do. Especially when she knows she's dealing with a crafty individual like Menerva. Also, this also addresses fan complaints over Kagura being able to match Erza. So we silenced criticism on one angle, only to have fans complain the other way: Mashima can't win. But that's understandable because you can't please everyone all of the time. So I can understand an opinion disliking the way something happened. But disliking it for following valid storytelling rules is not the right way to go about it. Just say you didn't like it, and leave it at that. I didn't like how short the Laxus/Jura fight was, and wished it had been a bit longer, but I suppose they'll add to it in the anime. I get the sense they are pushing Mashima to get to the end of the arc so they can animate it. |
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2013-03-05, 17:13 | Link #10755 | |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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...like I said...
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2013-03-05, 23:08 | Link #10756 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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^The way you put it sounds very cool and entertaining.
However, the way Mashima handles things makes it look horrible even though it is exactly the same thing. Mashima doesn't seem to know how to properly build things without making them glare at you. In all honesty a lot of problems I mentioned could've been not problems if Mashima did things differently. The way you've put it I can see a massive potential with something extremely entertaining. However, what I've actually seen so far was a ruined version of what could be great. In other words most of the minuses I mentioned could actually be pluses if things were done just a bit differently. Lately Mashima tends to make everything 10 times worse than it should. That is my biggest complaint. FT is gradually turning into SAO for me aka lots of lost potential.
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2013-03-06, 08:31 | Link #10757 | |
Banned
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As I said before, you can't please everyone. But you can please most, and judging by this forum, there are only 1 or 2 people who don't like it. The majority are fine with it. So I guess Mashima has proven why FT is so popular, because he is making something that most like. Glad he isn't listening to the incredibly small minority. |
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2013-03-06, 10:02 | Link #10758 |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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Ugh, did kitten really compare us in a round-about way to the Twilight-ers...? ... And it's usually not a majority, it's just a very vocal minority that stirs up stuff like Twilight with endless hype. Not even gonna go to the whole 'Bronie' thing either...
Going back to it, Mashima can only do so much within the couple of pages he has to do per week. No all the scenes he wants to put in can fit. That's where the anime comes in, to fill in gaps where needed but we know where that's heading... There are some things that have to be left to the readers to figure out or to just draw their own conclusions. At the very least, he's not as 'fly-by-seat-of-pants' like Kubo is ... thank goodness for small miracles. It's just a different perspective on something - I can go through and make my own 'improvements' onto Fairy Tail but I know others won't like it, saying stuff like, 'oh that's just shounen logic copout to explaining what really happened,' when all I'm doing is just letting the readers form their own ideas. It's boring and tedious to tell something to a person in exact detail (well to me it is), I'd rather let you form your own ideas, even if they are 'wrong' with what I had initially thought. Sure, Mashima could have done some things better, but that's only from our perspective. There's nothing saying that Mashima thinks that his every chapter is the greatest thing he's ever drawn or story lines were resloved perfectly. It's hard to both write and draw your own story, especially large ones - can get lost very easily. Hell, even when I brainstorm for more than 15 minutes, I get lost... Spoiler for Just a sample:
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Last edited by Tempest35; 2013-03-06 at 10:40. Reason: Added a brainstorming session |
2013-03-06, 11:43 | Link #10759 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Tags |
action, adventure, fantasy, shounen |
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