Angel Beats! - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Nanashiki]

Originally Posted by musouka

I was being sarcastic.



Hint: It's the one where people die over and over again.

The place they're in now is static and ultimately meaningless if they never leave it. The SSS is using it as a hiding place, a way to avoid facing what really bothers them. This last episode makes it obvious. Yes, Yui enjoyed doing suplexes and playing soccer, but what she truly wanted was to fall in love and move on with her life, something that's impossible where they are now. Whatever the true situation, purgatory offers a transient happiness at best.

IMHO, I think maybe some of the SSS members are really avoiding a confrontation on their inner conflicts and desires.

At least, Yurippe wasn't avoiding her past and she is actively seeking an answer from the 'God' and testing the boundaries of the 'system' itself.

Touching on the topic of Yui, her biggest desire maybe falling in love and getting married, but she had also expressed that those 'exercises' pales in comparison on how much she wants to move around freely, unaided by her mother who had always been taking care of her back in reality.

But your perspective on transient happiness, I do agree whole-heartedly. It is a time and space limbo and the only way out would be to fulfill one's inner desires. At that point, one would achieve inner peace and happiness and can truly 'graduate' out of that limbo.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Nanashiki

At least, Yurippe wasn't avoiding her past and she is actively seeking an answer from the 'God' and testing the boundaries of the 'system' itself.

Yuri is the one avoiding her past the most.

Yes, what if God comes down in a golden ray of light and explains all her questions? It doesn't really mean anything. Yuri is using her anger at God as a way of avoiding being angry at herself for what happened.

[Nanashiki]

Originally Posted by musouka

I was being sarcastic.



Hint: It's the one where people die over and over again.

The place they're in now is static and ultimately meaningless if they never leave it. The SSS is using it as a hiding place, a way to avoid facing what really bothers them. This last episode makes it obvious. Yes, Yui enjoyed doing suplexes and playing soccer, but what she truly wanted was to fall in love and move on with her life, something that's impossible where they are now. Whatever the true situation, purgatory offers a transient happiness at best.

Originally Posted by musouka

Yuri is the one avoiding her past the most.

Yes, what if God comes down in a golden ray of light and explains all her questions? It doesn't really mean anything. Yuri is using her anger at God as a way of avoiding being angry at herself for what happened.

I really do not feel the same way as you on Yurippe because she had been open with Otonashi on her past life.

I agree that on top of all her shame, guilt and sadness, resentment was also there on why her life is so unfair and she couldn't understand the reason why she is in the limbo area, unable to move on.

I do apologize if I sound offensive.

[KaneDragon]

Yeah, a limbo where no one gets sick, no one has to work, physical death/injury isn't permanent, and you can give yourself superpowers with the help of freely-available English-language software sure is a miserable place to be.

You can't have everything, and AB's purgatory is a pretty decent compromise, even if you have to maintain some sort of regret in order to prevent yourself from ascending to another plane of existence (whatever that might be). Yui and Hinata were already a slap-slap-kiss couple even before this episode's proposal. No reason they can't just continue things in purgatory instead of casting into the unknown. Maybe the potential regret of leaving their partner (or simply a strong desire to stay) could take the place of the angst that otherwise fuels their existence.

But this is a losing argument, since AB has already made clear what it considers the "right way". Ah well.



I wonder if the shadows are the product of a certain someone messing with Angel Player (or similar). "The Second Coming of Call-Me-Christ", anyone?

[musouka]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Yeah, a limbo where no one gets sick, no one has to work, physical death/injury isn't permanent, and you can give yourself superpowers with the help of freely-available English-language software sure is a miserable place to be.

A place where you can't live out your dreams. A place where you can't form permanent bonds with people because eventually they'll leave. An empty, sterile place where life can't progress.

Yes, it does sound like a pretty miserable place, doesn't it.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by musouka

A place where you can't live out your dreams. A place where you can't form permanent bonds with people because eventually they'll leave. An empty, sterile place where life can't progress.

Perhaps same could be said of all worlds.

Sometimes you can't live out your dreams; the people of AB know that well. "Living out your dreams" is such a vague phrase anyway. Why can't they do that where they were (or at the least, find a new purpose/satisfaction)? Iwasawa got to sing again. Yui got to run around being as zany as she wanted (and regarding her true regret, there was nothing stopping her from deepening a romantic relationship with Hinata, which is what really counts anyway).

And the "real world" is also a place where people will eventually leave (physical death). Nothing is permanent anywhere, but you can get closer in this afterlife setting if you can dodge the death flags that make people disappear.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Sometimes you can't live out your dreams; the people of AB know that well. "Living out your dreams" is such a vague phrase anyway. Why can't they do that where they were (or at the least, find a new purpose/satisfaction)?

Well, I guess if their dream is to hang around high school forever then they can achieve that. Otherwise it would be pretty hard to do anything more complex or interesting than that with the way the world is set up.

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Iwasawa got to sing again.

Iwasawa didn't want to just sing. Iwasawa wanted her music to touch people. She wanted to express herself. Saying that "Iwasawa can sing, so she must be happy" is the same mistake Otonashi made this episode in regards to making Yui happy. Iwasawa wanted to do more than just sing as "distractions" for a bunch of NPC characters in order to gather meal tickets for the SSS. In a world like Angel Beats, there is no way for her to realize that goal without graduating entirely.

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Yui got to run around being as zany as she wanted (and regarding her true regret, there was nothing stopping her from deepening a romantic relationship with Hinata, which is what really counts anyway).

You don't get it. Do you think marriage is simply about "love"? It's about being able to live an entire life. If Yui wanted a boyfriend, she would have said so. Marriage is about moving out into the world. Having your own place. Potentially creating a family by having children. None of that is possible in the Angel Beats world. What are you expecting? Hinata and Yui move into a dorm together so they're married? They eat together in the cafeteria, so they're married? That's a grade school conception of married.

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

And the "real world" is also a place where people will eventually leave (physical death). Nothing is permanent anywhere, but you can get closer in this afterlife setting if you can dodge the death flags that make people disappear.

Yes, all you have to do is give up any hopes of being truly happy. What a small price to pay for unchanging, long, cold eternity.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Nanashiki

I really do not feel the same way as you on Yurippe because she had been open with Otonashi on her past life.

I agree that on top of all her shame, guilt and sadness, resentment was also there on why her life is so unfair and she couldn't understand the reason why she is in the limbo area, unable to move on.

I don't think she's been open with Otonashi at all. First of all, as previous comments have pointed out, we can't prove if anyone died. Yuri was the one who told Otonashi and Hinata that they're dead. She herself didn't tell us if she died and we're not shown anything towards that.

On the same thread, she also asserts that she didn't (attempt to) commit suicide. I find it likely that she's lying, because so far she's the only person to state that suicide is a condition for not entering purgatory, while Kanade and Yuzuru concluded that the overarching condition for ending up there is a heavy regret in life.

I don't hate on her, but I think she's either horribly misguided about the purgatory school or she's trying her damned best to stay there out of self-hate, even if she will have to be disingenuous about it.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Claies

I don't think she's been open with Otonashi at all. First of all, as previous comments have pointed out, we can't prove if anyone died. Yuri was the one who told Otonashi and Hinata that they're dead. She herself didn't tell us if she died and we're not shown anything towards that.

Both Otonashi and Hinata clearly remember dying. I think that ought to be enough.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Yeah, a limbo where no one gets sick, no one has to work, physical death/injury isn't permanent, and you can give yourself superpowers with the help of freely-available English-language software sure is a miserable place to be.

Well, I'd say that AB's problem is that when things go too well, you die. So if you don't want to die, it becomes a cross between Sisyphus and Damocles' tortures.

[Crontica]

The reason why Sisyphus and Damocles dudes survive is because they know what causes deaths in the first place that or they have a higher chance not to snob conspiracy theories, knowing something is eerily wrong with the amount of dead bodies in the sector.

[anomono]

This may seem like nitpicking, but is there a better term than purgatory or limbo? Those don't feel at all appropriate in this case. The people are not there to atone for their sins, they are there to find peace.

Furthermore, with that as the condition for leaving, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless they are actually dead. So, speculating about them being only "mostly dead" based on technicalities doesn't feel like it is very useful. It would be cruel beyond words to send them back to their hopelessly broken lives at this point--especially in Yui's case.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by anomono

It would be cruel beyond words to send them back to their hopelessly broken lives at this point--especially in Yui's case.

Again with this "hopelessly broken lives" BS. What a sad perspective on people who have hardships in their lives. My brother still has scars on his neck from the operation that nearly left him voiceless. They might as well just shot him in the face instead of operating on him, right? What a terrible burden it must be to be alive, right? Clearly he should just be crying in a corner over how terrible it must be for him, right?

Do you guys even know how offensive this stuff you're spewing really is?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by musouka

Again with this "hopelessly broken lives" BS. What a sad perspective on people who have hardships in their lives. My brother still has scars on his neck from the operation that nearly left him voiceless. They might as well just shot him in the face instead of operating on him, right? What a terrible burden it must be to be alive, right? Clearly he should just be crying in a corner over how terrible it must be for him, right?

Do you guys even know how offensive this stuff you're spewing really is?

Do not compare Loss of voice to a completely Paralyzed person. Can you even begin to imagine the thoughts going through a person who cant even blink?

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Do not compare Loss of voice to a completely Paralyzed person. Can you even begin to imagine the thoughts going through a person who cant even blink?

People are making generalized statements about whether life is worth living for those that are paralyzed or otherwise have health problems and here you are trying to talk to ME about being insensitive? Maybe you should be lecturing them about deciding the worth of other people's lives. I would never assume that a quadriplegic person has no chance of living the most fulfilling life possible, including finding love. Unlike some people here.

[XGeneral2000]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Do not compare Loss of voice to a completely Paralyzed person. Can you even begin to imagine the thoughts going through a person who cant even blink?

I don't think Yui is completely paralyzed, but rather quadraplegic. She can see, blink, smile, move her head, and talk. Furthermore, I haven't met a single quadraplegic person who sees their lives as miserable and pointless. If anything, it's taught them how much life is really worth.

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by musouka

Again with this "hopelessly broken lives" BS. What a sad perspective on people who have hardships in their lives. My brother still has scars on his neck from the operation that nearly left him voiceless. They might as well just shot him in the face instead of operating on him, right? What a terrible burden it must be to be alive, right? Clearly he should just be crying in a corner over how terrible it must be for him, right?

Do you guys even know how offensive this stuff you're spewing really is?

You're taking things way too personal here. This is a show which clearly tries to show you life is not as bad as it seems. This is not "Reality Lesson 101 - How Cruel Life is". If Maeda actually does make the characters wake up in the real world and continue their lives as they were, after going through all those fighting back and fulfillments and such, then it's even worse than just making it a reality show to begin with.

[anomono]

Originally Posted by musouka

Again with this "hopelessly broken lives" BS. What a sad perspective on people who have hardships in their lives. My brother still has scars on his neck from the operation that nearly left him voiceless. They might as well just shot him in the face instead of operating on him, right? What a terrible burden it must be to be alive, right? Clearly he should just be crying in a corner over how terrible it must be for him, right?

Excuse me, but being paralyzed is not merely a "hardship." Where does one draw the line? How about being blind, deaf, and mute as well? You would deprive such a person of an alternate reality in which they had a functional body, and condemn them for not wanting to "face reality?" Anyway, here is a hint: it is not your place to draw that line. It is none of your business whatsoever.

Originally Posted by musouka

Do you guys even know how offensive this stuff you're spewing really is?

How so? I will grant you that some of them could salvage their lives, but that is beside the point, and ultimately up to the individual--not you. You should think hard about the question which you are asking. It is extremely offensive that you would presume to make other's choices for them.

You need to accept that other people may have values which differ from your own. The next step is to stop imposing your values on others. The manner in which you have been posting is flat out offensive. Moreover, you continue to speak in absolutes. You are welcome to, but you should recognize that you will be wrong nearly 100% of the time, because reality never fits perfectly. At the same time, many people will take offense when you do so.

Anyway, let's take Otonashi as an example, with the usual assumptions about this world. He is currently doing his best to help others, and that in itself could develop into his meaning for existence, and could keep him there indefinitely. Are you going to continue to insist that his life is without meaning because he is not in the "real world?"

As another data point, I would also rather live in such an alternate reality than be confined to a bed for the remainder of my life, and I'm clearly not alone. There is no inherent meaning in life; it is something each person has to find for themselves. There is no reason one can't find that meaning within the alternate SSS reality. Reality is the world within which you exist, not something which you arbitrarily define.

I am making no assumptions about disabled people--just that people should have the right to make their own choices. The interesting point is that this isn't a purely hypothetical argument. In the future, with the aid of technology, it will be possible for people to live in a virtual world should they choose. It is not your place to take that choice away from people, nor condemn them for making it.

[boredandlazy]

Originally Posted by Haak

Both Otonashi and Hinata clearly remember dying. I think that ought to be enough.

Hinata doesn't remember dying, he remembers being struck by a vehicle.

[Matt122005]

>_> You know guys... this is getting a tad bit ridiculous, no?

This has stopped being a conversation on "Are they in a Coma possibly?" to "Is Life worth living anymore? Are the creators so cruel!?"

I think that we should all just breathe, remember it's a fictional show for "entertainment", and wait to see how the creators end it. No sense in debating so heavily issues that we can't confirm yet (and ultimately drive the topic off-topic). Just lay back, relax, and enjoy the show. ^_^

Either that or you all keep fighting and a Moderator has to step in to handle things.

Personally, I like the first option better.