Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[dniv]

Something important I'll add anyway is that all we've seen the dragon do is negate.

Aleister himself said that Touma's right hand is not merely a right hand that can negate supernatural powers. Which probably implies that the dragon hand and the IT are different powers.

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

It's really not actually. If you try to dive into the realm of infinity, you'll encounter a lot of bullstool that actually makes sense ... I think. But the most important thing to know is that any concept of equality starts to lose its meaning when you get closer to infinity.

Is it safe to assume that Othinus doesn't equal herself, then? Honestly I don't know and I don't want to think about it, but at least I had to say it's not an impossibility if she's as "infinite" as she pretends to be.
And to be fair she's already a messed up being who might lose to her own self for most things she does.

True. If her power truly is infinite then I've got nothing to reject the Dragon = distortions theory.

Originally Posted by dniv

Something important I'll add anyway is that all we've seen the dragon do is negate.

It also ate Aureolus' memories.

Originally Posted by dniv

Furthermore, Dragons are commonly associated with evil, and I think the reference is to Lucifer.

Originally Posted by dniv

That's interesting. I was also originally saying that Lucifer was sealed in his right hand, and that supernatural powers, "the devil" are being exorcised by his right hand, but perhaps that's wrong.

Maybe it is possible that what is in his right hand is God, the creator. I've always thought that this was possible, but that his power is sealed while he is in his hand. It would explain why he could negate the power of God.

...

Also, if you do check the wikia or perhaps volume 14 Terra states that he thinks Imagine Breaker might be responsible for the death of Jesus Christ, because he was wondering about the contradiction that the son of God was killed with human hands, though this could also be implying Imagine Breaker stores something divine.

It would also make sense for IB to return things to normal, if God was the one behind it that created everything in the first place... but this theory doesn't have that much basis, except for the fact that Touma can control the IT which would mean he might be above God... yada yada...

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

@ Dniv, A Longinus?

These are all interpretations based on Christian values. Aleister himself stated that neither IB nor the power within it could be understood with something on the level of Christianity. You are making the same mistake as Fiamma.

Originally Posted by dniv

Anyway, just pointing out that we haven't seen Othinus reach the same level as Aleister yet. She was not able to be two places at once, and get things from other dimensions... She was however hinted at being able to change her appearance over time.

Assuming phases are in the territory of Horus, then how much farther is Aleister than her, after all she was easily able to crush IT, so maybe Aleister could as well.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

@dniv As far as I know Aleister didn't blow up the universe countless times. Even if he can, which is probable if we were to reconsider what Othinus said about him, he still didn't show it to us.

If you read alpha again, you might think it's not out of her league. Moreover, being in "just" two places at the same time isn't as amazing as people think it is. It only starts getting broken if you get it to 2 digits or more.
Moreover, assuming he's actually "omnipresent", that doesn't necessarily mean he's nigh-omnipotent crazy level of powerful. I mean, just look at Schrödinger. The guy's practically useless other than being immortal and everywhere. The one from Hellsing, not the real one.

I don't even know how this works. What is dimensions in "from other dimensions"? She already manipulates time (4th), plus heaven and hell (wherever they might be).

I assume you meant Touma's arm, because IB itself was never damaged for all we know.

I doubt Aleister can warp the world the way Othinus can. If he could do that, then there are so many things he could have done to make his life easier. For one, he could have simply erased Fiamma's memories, as well as those of everyone in Necessarius, in order to keep his plan hidden. That said, I do believe that Aleister would beat 100% Othinus in a fight, if only because he's being set up as the final boss of TAMNI.

I believe that the difference between Aleister's Horus powers and other magician's Osiris powers isn't a question of power, but of the underlying principles behind them. Othinus, who represents the apex of Osiris magicians (Odin follows the dying god formula, so Othinus should be Osiris) can manipulate the phases of the world, but this does not affect the Pure World underneath.

Aleister, on the other hand, was trying to manipulate the Pure World that even Magic Gods cannot touch. If Aleister can operate, even partially, on a deeper level than other magicians, then he can undercut their powers and beat them every time regardless of differences in power output.

I speculate it's kind of like type effectiveness in Pokemon. No matter how well you've optimized it, your level 100 Groudon's Earthquake isn't going to do jack to the level 3 Pidgeys on route 2.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ So basically, the Dragon isn't the invisible thing but the other power, huh?

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

After thinking it for a bit maybe the dragon head that appeared in the last Railgun chapter makes sense. After Fiamma cuts Touma's right arm and absorbs Imagine Breaker the Invisible Thing appears but then this happens.

Spoiler for Toma stops the invisible thing:

Kamijou Touma used his own power to crush that invisible something.

A different power appeared above that great power that had gathered around Kamijou’s shoulder. That other power seemed to open up a large mouth and swallow up the first power. As if this giant mouth was chewing, the air around the shoulder shook looked like sugar water.

That great power was smashed in an instant.

Maybe the Dragon is the other power (the large mouth might be a hint) and it and the Invisible Thing are different beings. Or maybe IT it's a Dragon with capital D (of the ridiculously powerful kind and not the usual flying lizard with wings). I'm just confused as to why it would be described as something invisible and formless if it's shape it's clearly a dragon head.

Spoiler for The Invisible Thing attacks Othinus:

Suddenly, something changed.

Something invisible blew out from the crushed remnants of Kamijou Touma’s right wrist. With a roar, it shot toward Othinus without taking any real form.

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

The Dragon is one thing and the IT is other, I understand that.

Originally Posted by Birdway

I didn't. I keep on posting IT isn't Dragón.

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

Thank you, I just spit my dinner when I read it.

Anyway, I agree that both the IT and DS are different powers, for me the DS is the "other power" mencionad vol 22, what missing explain is because the DS was released in the fight against demon Mikoto and not IT, and the opposite against Othinus.

In line with my argument about Gabriel, I will now bring out a theory that flies in the face of everyone else's assumptions! Namely, that IT and the Dragon are one and the same. Fire the quotes!

Originally Posted by Volume 16

—The reference point for the denial of illogical phenomena (Point Central 0) remains at stability level 3.

Originally Posted by Volume NT 2

The boy looked down at his right hand, and Birdway continued speaking in an arrogant way.

"This isn't just limited to Imagine Breaker. Natural powers like yours are often initially set to conform to the environment or situation.

IB is initially set to 0, to conform with the laws of the natural world. However, that might not be an immutable parameter. Its stability level is currently 3, but with the right stimuli, that stability could be compromised and IB's settings changed.

Aleister wants to manipulate the Pure World of Science. In order to do that, I speculate he has to change the values in IB to make it accept the world he wants as natural. No amount of power is able to immediately change IB, but what about multiple small adjustments over several years? I further speculate that placing IB in AC serves the purpose of slowly conditioning IB to accept AIM.

Finally, if IB changes, then those changes should be reflected in the power inside it. Prior to Volume 22, that power took the form of a Dragon, but at some point after chapter 69 of Railgun, it changed form and became IT.

Due to the lack of information we have, I see no grounds on which this theory can be conclusively proved or disproved. Once again, I warn everyone against making hasty assumptions.

[Miraluka]

Those quotes proves nothing on your speculations about IT being the same as Dragon though.

[Ravagerblade]

I was just wondering if that's what he was trying to say. don't assume that's me thinking that.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

In line with my argument about Gabriel, I will now bring out a theory that flies in the face of everyone else's assumptions! Namely, that IT and the Dragon are one and the same. Fire the quotes!



IB is initially set to 0, to conform with the laws of the natural world. However, that might not be an immutable parameter. Its stability level is currently 3, but with the right stimuli, that stability could be compromised and IB's settings changed.

Aleister wants to manipulate the Pure World of Science. In order to do that, I speculate he has to change the values in IB to make it accept the world he wants as natural. No amount of power is able to immediately change IB, but what about multiple small adjustments over several years? I further speculate that placing IB in AC serves the purpose of slowly conditioning IB to accept AIM.

Finally, if IB changes, then those changes should be reflected in the power inside it. Prior to Volume 22, that power took the form of a Dragon, but at some point after chapter 69 of Railgun, it changed form and became IT.

Due to the lack of information we have, I see no grounds on which this theory can be conclusively proved or disproved. Once again, I warn everyone against making hasty assumptions.

That was actually the quote I was referring to earlier about IB possibly not being at its full power.

I was also thinking something similar might be true.

Your theory about it changing its form is definitely interesting.

I'm still not sure if they're different powers or the same power.

About Aleister vs. Othinus:

It's possible that he doesn't do anything because he's already planned out exactly what he wants to do and he wants to mess with it as little as possible. He has so much patience that he is perhaps inhibited by his plans and can't make any moves for that reason.

It's possible that everything Othinus did would be useless for Aleister to pursue, so he hasn't done what she could yet. Either way, Musujime already foreshadowed Aleister viewed the planet as just another resource.

Perhaps Aleister will also become stronger at some point... he is trying to reach Aiwass's level after all.

Since he seems to be the Final Boss I agree that he's most likely stronger than Othinus, or at least he would beat in a fight because of he's a pidgey that can't get hit by earthquake. (Aleister is a level 3 pidgey lol...)

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Those quotes proves nothing on your speculations about IT being the same as Dragon though.

That's OK, because there aren't any quotes that prove anything about IT being different from the Dragon either. I just wanted to point that out.

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

I was just wondering if that's what he was trying to say. don't assume that's me thinking that.

Sorry.

Originally Posted by dniv

That was actually the quote I was referring to earlier about IB possibly not being at its full power.

I was also thinking something similar might be true.

Your theory about it changing its form is definitely interesting.

I'm still not sure if they're different powers or the same power.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by dniv

About Aleister vs. Othinus:

It's possible that he doesn't do anything because he's already planned out exactly what he wants to do and he wants to mess with it as little as possible. He has so much patience that he is perhaps inhibited by his plans and can't make any moves for that reason.

It's possible that everything Othinus did would be useless for Aleister to pursue, so he hasn't done what she could yet. Either way, Musujime already foreshadowed Aleister viewed the planet as just another resource.

Originally Posted by Volume NT 2

Regardless, Birdway continued.

“During World War III and in your contact with Fiamma of the Right, a major deviation occurred in your plan centered on Kamijou Touma. You are trying to correct that, but you do not know in what direction to apply power in order to bring things back to normal. Unless you can unravel all the conditions that are so complexly intertwined, you cannot take any real action. That is why you did not drag Kamijou out of the Arctic Ocean despite knowing he was sinking into it, and that is why you took no action to secure him despite knowing that he had returned to Academy City.”

Aleister's plan has been in shambles since Volume 22. If he could just sweep all those problems under a rug by adding a phase, for example by creating a world where he never existed until he founded AC so that magicians wouldn't know about him, he would have done so.

Even if adding a phase could cause interference that would set his plan back, it would have been preferable to not knowing what to do at all. I doubt adding phases could cause any fatal damage to his plan, because otherwise he would have stopped Othinus.

Rather than say that the power of a Magic God would be useless to Aleister, I believe that it is incompatible with his current state and the goals he ultimately wants to achieve. The power to manipulate phases and the power to reach the Pure World beneath might simply not be able to mix.

Originally Posted by dniv

Perhaps Aleister will also become stronger at some point... he is trying to reach Aiwass's level after all.

Since he seems to be the Final Boss I agree that he's most likely stronger than Othinus, or at least he would beat in a fight because of he's a pidgey that can't get hit by earthquake. (Aleister is a level 3 pidgey lol...)

Well, I was just trying to make a point with a funny exaggerated metaphor. In truth, I believe that Aleister would be closer to a level 81 Battery Je Zapdos.

[Birdway]

That's OK, because there aren't any quotes that prove anything about IT
being different from the Dragon either. I just wanted to point that out.

However. No matter what you say, you can't refute the IT and the power that has like a mouth and swallowed IT aren't the same. The narrative made a clear distinction between those two as two powers separated from Imagine Breaker and from within the right arm.

[LevelSeven]

I believe that Aleister would be closer to a level 81 Battery Je Zapdos.

arent miu-two and miu the strongest pokemons?? sorry i stopped with this series years ago so i dont have any idea of this beings XD

about the dragon and IB:
im sad because it looks like a dragon this was the only thing...
so far as the series goes we have no idea what a dragon can do or not which means that they after toaru-verse rules could also be the strongest being in gods creation...

i think many fans pointed this out too

but some wrote that the third power (which is > IT )could be the dragon, i dont have anythign to disproove that but a question: why should the dragon appear if IB is severed and not the IT??
in WW3 IB was severed too and in the end the IT showed up and not the third power (which can also be toumas will which suppressed it),
in his fight with izzard it showed up but i think it was the IT, the same happens in railgun, their is no third power or greater power, touma managed to stop the IT from going berserk because of will/luck/plot whatever...

@doom_paperclip

i agree with dniv about the part that the IT (or dragon) only showed the power to negate things...
it negated the supernatural power inside mikotos body...
it negated the only attack of fiamma which could destroy a planet (as far as i remember),

(since the only feats he showed as lsdap was to summon golden telesma from ( the magical equivalent of) heaven, create gaint golden arms and attack with a lightbeam which was powerful enough to destroy the world) every other attack was not on this scale so i think that IB would be screwed if ti was the one who took this attack head on...

the third time where he erased izzards memories:

(THIS is now only a theory of mine llike the one i wrote about how grimoire can actually mindf*ck someone)

Ars Magna is a spell which allows the magician to rememebr every single law/value and their reaction to each other, and after that allows them to control the reality as if it is his mind,

it simulates the world inside their mind and than allows them to change the laws/values however they wish,
that means the mind of the magician is the "core" or the medium for the spell...

IB would negate the effects of magic like izzard summons a gaint and IB destroys it again, so far this was what we saw in vol. 2...
IT on the other hand not only destroyed the effects like the gaint (much faster) he also destroyed the "core" of he magicians magic...

birdway uses this changing-four-elemst-magical-suff, IB would destoy it if it coudl actually touch it and the same with IT or Dragon, it destoyed the memories of izzard because they was the core of his spell, if touma could manages to touch the part of izzards brain which saves the memories than he would also negate it....

and in the fouth case against otihinus it showed up and was defeted because the worf effect was used and because i couldnt see a "core" which othnius used as medium for her mmajin-magic..

so in the end: IT is the 100% version of IB which shows itself in a faster version of negating supernatural powers...

with this: the IT recreated toumas arm after being severed right??
was their even one moment of his arm being ripped because of non-supernatural powers??

i think if touma is trapped in one of jigsaws "plays" and his right arm needs to be severed than it wouldnt replace itself since their was no supernatural forces...

i question thius because if his right arm can really heal faster than i highly doubt that his parents wouldnt notice something like that, at least if touma was really "assaulted" because of his misfortune than i doubt that he wouldnt notice that (after being hurt) his right arm is healed 30-80 minutes later...

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

arent miu-two and miu the strongest pokemons?? sorry i stopped with this series years ago so i dont have any idea of this beings XD

about the dragon and IB:
im sad because it looks like a dragon this was the only thing...
so far as the series goes we have no idea what a dragon can do or not which means that they after toaru-verse rules could also be the strongest being in gods creation...

i think many fans pointed this out too

but some wrote that the third power (which is > IT )could be the dragon, i dont have anythign to disproove that but a question: why should the dragon appear if IB is severed and not the IT??
in WW3 IB was severed too and in the end the IT showed up and not the third power (which can also be toumas will which suppressed it),
in his fight with izzard it showed up but i think it was the IT, the same happens in railgun, their is no third power or greater power, touma managed to stop the IT from going berserk because of will/luck/plot whatever...

@doom_paperclip

i agree with dniv about the part that the IT (or dragon) only showed the power to negate things...
it negated the supernatural power inside mikotos body...
it negated the only attack of fiamma which could destroy a planet (as far as i remember),

(since the only feats he showed as lsdap was to summon golden telesma from ( the magical equivalent of) heaven, create gaint golden arms and attack with a lightbeam which was powerful enough to destroy the world) every other attack was not on this scale so i think that IB would be screwed if ti was the one who took this attack head on...

the third time where he erased izzards memories:

(THIS is now only a theory of mine llike the one i wrote about how grimoire can actually mindf*ck someone)

Ars Magna is a spell which allows the magician to rememebr every single law/value and their reaction to each other, and after that allows them to control the reality as if it is his mind,

it simulates the world inside their mind and than allows them to change the laws/values however they wish,
that means the mind of the magician is the "core" or the medium for the spell...

IB would negate the effects of magic like izzard summons a gaint and IB destroys it again, so far this was what we saw in vol. 2...
IT on the other hand not only destroyed the effects like the gaint (much faster) he also destroyed the "core" of he magicians magic...

birdway uses this changing-four-elemst-magical-suff, IB would destoy it if it coudl actually touch it and the same with IT or Dragon, it destoyed the memories of izzard because they was the core of his spell, if touma could manages to touch the part of izzards brain which saves the memories than he would also negate it....

and in the fouth case against otihinus it showed up and was defeted because the worf effect was used and because i couldnt see a "core" which othnius used as medium for her mmajin-magic..

so in the end: IT is the 100% version of IB which shows itself in a faster version of negating supernatural powers...

with this: the IT recreated toumas arm after being severed right??
was their even one moment of his arm being ripped because of non-supernatural powers??

i think if touma is trapped in one of jigsaws "plays" and his right arm needs to be severed than it wouldnt replace itself since their was no supernatural forces...

i question thius because if his right arm can really heal faster than i highly doubt that his parents wouldnt notice something like that, at least if touma was really "assaulted" because of his misfortune than i doubt that he wouldnt notice that (after being hurt) his right arm is healed 30-80 minutes later...

it even stated an even greater power pretty much swallowed "IT". you really like to make theories about kamijou that sometimes aren't even close to being true despite the words were literally shown in front of your face now do you? you really need to stop making theories that make him sound more cliche then he already is.

i got noting against you levelseven. i actually respect the fact that you try to think outside the box and come up with your own theories to see if their true besides me who just accepts whatever is written in the story.

[LevelSeven]

it even stated an even greater power pretty much swallowed "IT". you really like to make theories about kamijou that sometimes aren't even close to being true despite the words were literally shown in front of your face now do you? you really need to stop making theories that make him sound more cliche then he already is.

was it stated that the thing which stopped the IT was actually another force ???
from what i understood was that it was never stated that it could be a new power, yes the story said that it was something > IT but never told us if it is a new power or simply toumas will who suppressed the IT...

and you didnt say anything to disproof my theory.....

i got noting against you levelseven.

i also have nothing agaisnt you Goldzero XD

[Birdway]

It's on the text, go and quote it if you need but stop denying it.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

arent miu-two and miu the strongest pokemons??

Mew and Mewtwo.

[LevelSeven]

Mew and Mewtwo.

only out of curiosity, how long is pokemon?? with ash (the MC)...

It's on the text, go and quote it if you need but stop denying it.

if you mean about third power and IT and so on than i already knew the places....
what i want to know is if it was stated that the third power is a new force OR if it is toumas will-power which supressed the IT....
if the latter is the case than their are only two powers IB and IT who is now the dragons head...
but if this is the case than why should the dragon show up if the right hand is severed and not IT??
it was already shown that in vol. 22 and nt4, after severing the right hand the IT appears, the third power was only in vol. 22, if it is toumas will i can understand why it didnt show up on the other cases but with what i saw until now it is that:
1. Ib is the regular power
2. IT shows up everytime if the right hand is severed which is now confrmed to be a dragon head
3. the third power isnt a extra force but it is toumas will which suppressed the IT in vol.22..

i can understand why others think of the third pwoer as extra force but why should it appear now instead of the IT?????

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Birdway

However. No matter what you say, you can't refute the IT and the power that has like a mouth and swallowed IT aren't the same. The narrative made a clear distinction between those two as two powers separated from Imagine Breaker and from within the right arm.

True. However, just as you can say that that excerpt favors the interpretation that the IT and the Dragon are different things, with the Dragon being the power that swallowed up the first, I can argue, on the grounds that the Dragon has been visible the two times it has appeared, that the excerpt favors the interpretation that the Dragon became the IT, since Fiamma did not see any Dragon even when the great power was swallowed up.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

(since the only feats he showed as lsdap was to summon golden telesma from ( the magical equivalent of) heaven, create gaint golden arms and attack with a lightbeam which was powerful enough to destroy the world) every other attack was not on this scale so i think that IB would be screwed if ti was the one who took this attack head on...

It was expressly stated that Touma would have been a goner against Fiamma's attacks had he not learned to deflect with IB instead of block. Just so you know.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

IB would negate the effects of magic like izzard summons a gaint and IB destroys it again, so far this was what we saw in vol. 2...
IT on the other hand not only destroyed the effects like the gaint (much faster) he also destroyed the "core" of he magicians magic...

I also considered this possibility, but if so, did it really have to eat all his memories? Seems a bit overkill.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i question thius because if his right arm can really heal faster than i highly doubt that his parents wouldnt notice something like that, at least if touma was really "assaulted" because of his misfortune than i doubt that he wouldnt notice that (after being hurt) his right arm is healed 30-80 minutes later...

The regeneration only kicks in when his arm is removed. Even when he did a number on his wrist by repeatedly deflecting Thor's 2 km lightning claws or when he hurt his fingers punching Gungnir, no special healing factor showed up. Your theory that IB regenerates only when severed by supernatural effects is interesting, but we don't really have much evidence.

It is unlikely that we'll ever be able to verify this either. I can't think of many situations where Touma's arm could possibly end up getting severed in a non-supernatural context. 90% of his enemies wield powers and the remaining 10% wield weapons that are unlikely to cause that type of injury, such as guns.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i also have nothing agaisnt you Goldzero XD

I have nothing against anyone who has nothing against me!

[Kenju of the Right]

Except all your examples are still from mythologies under the Aeon of Osiris. Talking about Asian dragons and referencing Satan is weak, and arrogantly assume we don't know all this already. "Mere giant lizards that blows fires", no, but something supposedly superior to the One Above God like Aiwass is, possibly outside the system created by God, only being a common dragon you can find in most human belief systems around the world?

(from the other thread)
It being in other belief systems means nothing, there are gods and angels(atleast the appearance of ones) in both the Aeons as well

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right

(from the other thread)
It being in other belief systems means nothing, there are gods and angels(atleast the appearance of ones) in both the Aeons as well

nah, I think he meant is why take a form of a dragon?

if we had Aiwass who was considered/called a DRAGON but turn out to be an angel outside of the system

I'm fine with the dragon if there is a good reason

playing with tons of games and reading tons of stories

dragon was always depicted as the ultimate fantasy, a form of power

but for here in Tamni.

there was lots of meaning for the dragon and its only a SYMBOL but why take form of the dragon that we are all familiar with?

I thought if a dragon shows up again. It will probably be the same as Aiwass but who said they are limited to that form? they can be free transforming and all.

but the feeling of dragon is just a let down because we already had cthulhu here and magic god. Alien from mars and even time traveler.

The idea of the dragon is just pretty common that it date as far as the age of Isis to Osiris where the dragon was struck down by the might of the right hand of god Micheal.

Now, if you imagine that Aiwass goal as the age of Horus. The thing inside touma would take a form of an unknown, invisible or indistinguishable or unique. But not just a dragon.

But I'm fine with a dragon. Just disappointed that it turn out to be a dragon. I hope its not just mere dragon but the dragon form is just one of its form that it can take. If not its really disappointing.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

nah, I think he meant is why take a form of a dragon?

if we had Aiwass who was considered/called a DRAGON but turn out to be an angel outside of the system

I'm fine with the dragon if there is a good reason

playing with tons of games and reading tons of stories

dragon was always depicted as the ultimate fantasy, a form of power

but for here in Tamni.

there was lots of meaning for the dragon and its only a SYMBOL but why take form of the dragon that we are all familiar with?

I thought if a dragon shows up again. It will probably be the same as Aiwass but who said they are limited to that form? they can be free transforming and all.

but the feeling of dragon is just a let down because we already had cthulhu here and magic god. Alien from mars and even time traveler.

The idea of the dragon is just pretty common that it date as far as the age of Isis to Osiris where the dragon was struck down by the might of the right hand of god Micheal.

Now, if you imagine that Aiwass goal as the age of Horus. The thing inside touma would take a form of an unknown, invisible or indistinguishable or unique. But not just a dragon.

But I'm fine with a dragon. Just disappointed that it turn out to be a dragon. I hope its not just mere dragon but the dragon form is just one of its form that it can take. If not its really disappointing.

(Reads until bolded part)... what? Can someone explsin this to me? Whay does this have to do with IB? I am seriously lost now. is Haruhi Susumiya being quoted here or something?

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

(Reads until bolded part)... what? Can someone explsin this to me? Whay does this have to do with IB? I am seriously lost now. is Haruhi Susumiya being quoted here or something?

no. it just meant that there are lots of bizarre thing that already happen so why a dragon? or why a form of dragon?

and the things that I listed really DID happen in Tamni. Be it side story or game. The world of tamni is just pretty big and has unique characters that its just disappointing it will fall into the trope of dragons. Though I will still wait for the explanation about it.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

no. it just meant that there are lots of bizarre thing that already happen so why a dragon? or why a form of dragon?

and the things that I listed really DID happen in Tamni. Be it side story or game. The world of tamni is just pretty big and has unique characters that its just disappointing it will fall into the trope of dragons. Though I will still wait for the explanation about it.

There was an alien and time time traveler? Where?

I think your making too big a deal about the dragon appearing, we already saw it so it's not a big surprise it eould take that form again, what is surprising is that he used it and we didn't even know given how far we are in the LN, which is exiting to know.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

There was an alien and time time traveler? Where?

you need to explore tamni more. There is an ss where touma accidentally met a magician that is connected to alien on mars. And the time traveler is from the psp game.

You should also know that Touma also accidentally met Birdway when he is taking detours in the ally.

Touma's adventure in the ally is pretty colorful life.

If we take into account that the dragon strike was already shown in the psp game.

typemoon fans would weep with how tamni plays with their 5 true magic. I'm one of them but I don't weep, I find it funny