Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

I always wondered what people considered his sins to be. He never did anything that bad, his Geassing of Euphemia was accidental and his killing of her after was to correct that mistake and salvage the situation.

Brainwashing his family, and soldiers, killing the JLF, killing Shirley's father, massacring the geass cult.

Something you have to remember is that Britannia is not evil, Britannia is only doing what it did because the imbecile Charles watched Evangelion, and decided to rip it off, so he started wars, to conquer the world, and make his dream a reality.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

What, Immortality for the rest of his life where he has to watch the world pass him by etc etc. while being likely burdened with the same responsibility as Suzaku, only for eternity? Talk to the nun, hell talk to C.C about how she regarded it before, it didn't and doesn't seem all that peachy to everyone I would imagine >_>

Giving the look on C.C's face I think she will manage. At no point in time is a burden ever shown on C.C face. She isn't going to watch the world, so if the Cart Driver is Lelouch I see no reason why he would watch the world. The one mistake you made is forgetting that except for Suzaku, Nunally, and Kallen the ending is SUPER DUPER HAPPY, and continued watching will give you diabetes.

Originally Posted by eaglei3

I just hate with how all this sin talk, 99% of it just focuses on Lelouch having sinned and needing to be punished. Everyone else just walks freely in these scenarios.

I have stated that Lelouch died for the sins of the Britannian Royal Family, that just happens to include him.

Also Suzaku is atoning for his sins.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2

To be fair Rolo killed Shirley because he was a jealous shit at that time. Even if Lelouch kindness was genuine the result would have been the same

The fact he kept Rolo, someone who he KNEW was unstable and talked about killing people nonchalantly as he did all because he needed a "rag" to help his cause should hold him SOMEWHAT responsible. You keep dangerous, unstable people around, and it can come back and bite you in the ass.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Orga777

.....You are joking right?
Here is a comprised list of what Lelouch done. Note, this was all during his "Whaaa! Daddy doesn't love me! I will make him pay!" Stage of Selfishness:

1) Used the Black Knights for his own selfish goals and never really cared about him. He just told them some pretty words to get them to follow him. Sure they would get what the wanted out of the deal, but he doesn't care if they all die as long as HE gets what HE wants. In other words, considered people expendable.

2) Blowing up the JLF ship for no other reason than to be a rallying point.

3) Euphie SAZ Massacre... You say it was an accident? Would you like to say how saying "Kill all Japanese" just slips out? He was ego stroking. And then what does he do after that? Oh, uses it for a rallying point... right.

4) Many a civilian lost their lives in Narita and most notably the lack Rebellion.

5) "I order you to die!" And not just that one time in the first episode. A lot.

6) Killed Clovis in cold blood. And not because he killed Japanese, but because he can't afford to be found out.

7) Endangered Shirley in S1 and pretty much lead to her death as well because he wanted to use Rolo as a "rag."

8) Geass Cult Massacre all because HE was wronged.

Do you want me to go on? He was a monster. Especially in S1. He didn't care who he trampled on, what anyone elses feelings were, and he definitely didn't CARE about anything other than getting revenge for HIMSELF. When Schneizel said in R2 24 "You who denied people and their wills come here and acknowledge them?" Was truth. Lelouch saw the light in R2 21, but that doesn't excuse him for his sins IMO.

Well, despite being selfish, I found all of the forgivable considering the overall strategic benefit gathered from them, and eventually it was those very mistakes that allowed him and pushed him to change the world as a whole. No regrets says Lelouch, not since the first day he was given the power, from which he was able to take the first step to where he is now

[bran]

Originally Posted by coba

Still it is the same as Suzaku's burden though since Lelouch can no longer become Lelouch Lamparouge or Lelouch Vi Brittania. Worse yet, he will have to live in the hiding for the next 100 years or so till everyone who knows his face/identity is all dead. In the end, he will have to always move around/ run away and will have to severe all the contact with his friends/families since if he get found out that he is alive, all his efforts will be useless.

whatever...
you know looking at your avatar makes me remember fate/stay

Spoiler for fate:

and how i cried when saber died but she acomplished her goal so it was a happy ending
i want to believe the same for CG not torment myself everytime when i think about it is lelouch still alive or dead

[D-KLAC]

OH PLEASE this is too much to read 143pages & more on the way any f'n second just please FIND DIRECTOR GORO TO GET THE REAL ANSWER OUT OF HIS MIND OR ELSE GORO + R2-25 = anno's treatment with those "emails"

GORO if ya reading I WANT THE REAL F'N ANSWER OR ELSE FEEL THE KLAC'S GS-WRATH!!!

only my theroies & my GS-instinct you can follow for that REAL TRUTH

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2420
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2821

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, despite being selfish, I found all of the forgivable considering the overall strategic benefit gathered from them, and eventually it was those very mistakes that allowed him and pushed him to change the world as a whole. No regrets says Lelouch, not since the first day he was given the power, from which he was able to take the first step to where he is now

And it still doesn't excuse him. He was a prick and in death, I see redemption. In life, I see... well, him being a prick. XD

Lelouch dieing puts him in my top 5 because he learned that other people are more important than he is and learned that because he was selfish, it resulted in a lot of pain for everyone. He redeemed all that. Him in death becomes one of my favorite character. If I think he lives, I would be more disgusted than I was before. XD

[FreezeGeass]

Originally Posted by Kagetsuchi

No one cares about nina >.> and ohgi people care less about...Seriously the focus is on lulu because he's lulu.

we're talking about sins here not fan popularity

Originally Posted by Orga777

.....You are joking right?
Here is a comprised list of what Lelouch done. Note, this was all during his "Whaaa! Daddy doesn't love me! I will make him pay!" Stage of Selfishness:

1) Used the Black Knights for his own selfish goals and never really cared about him. He just told them some pretty words to get them to follow him. Sure they would get what the wanted out of the deal, but he doesn't care if they all die as long as HE gets what HE wants. In other words, considered people expendable.

Mutual benefit. Part of war, hardly considerable as a sin. You ally with people that have common goals, and they did have a common goal.

Originally Posted by Orga777

2) Blowing up the JLF ship for no other reason than to be a rallying point.

An enemy ship, no? One that would have hindered said goals. Again, part of war, and hardly a sin.

Originally Posted by Orga777

3) Euphie SAZ Massacre... You say it was an accident? Would you like to say how saying "Kill all Japanese" just slips out? He was ego stroking. And then what does he do after that? Oh, uses it for a rallying point... right.

Ego stroke or no, it was accidental. And what did you expect him to do, retire at that point and let everything become worse than the way it was before he was present?

Originally Posted by Orga777

4) Many a civilian lost their lives in Narita and most notably the lack Rebellion.

Collateral damage is also part of war. I'm not sure how familiar you are with how war works. Most of this stuff is pretty standard. At times, you have to sacrifice few for the sake of many.

Originally Posted by Orga777

5) "I order you to die!" And not just that one time in the first episode. A lot.

Again, enemies. Would you have him make his way through the entire show as a pacifist? Be realistic.

Originally Posted by Orga777

6) Killed Clovis in cold blood. And not because he killed Japanese, but because he can't afford to be found out.

I'm sure killing Japanese didn't help him any either. It was the fact that Clovis was the opposition. I don't understand how you can consider it a sin to destroy your opponents. That's not what a sin is.

Originally Posted by Orga777

7) Endangered Shirley in S1 and pretty much lead to her death as well because he wanted to use Rolo as a "rag."

Lol, debatable at best that Lelouch is at fault. Rolo killed her, not Lelouch or his actions.

Originally Posted by Orga777

8) Geass Cult Massacre all because HE was wronged.

This is concedable as a potential sin, although he did ultimately prevent such future situations by doing so.

Originally Posted by Orga777

Do you want me to go on? He was a monster. Especially in S1. He didn't care who he trampled on, what anyone elses feelings were, and he definitely didn't CARE about anything other than getting revenge for HIMSELF. When Schneizel said in R2 24 "You who denied people and their wills come here and acknowledge them?" Was truth. Lelouch saw the light in R2 21, but that doesn't excuse him for his sins IMO.

Was he motivated by revenge? Absolutely, but he hardly committed many "sins". He did what needed to be done in a war to be successful and rarely showed excess force or did anything vile like shoot up innocents. He was morally ambiguous at times which was an excellent aspect of the show, but he hardly sinned any more than most of the other people he opposed.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uh, Lelouch did leave his mech, in order to use use the mirrors as a way to Geass Charles from there, we never get an up close shot to indicate what transpired exactly if it had an effect or not. All I know is I find it strange he killed himself in the first place if he really was already immortal/immune. >_>

The Geass reaches his eyes but, as I said, there is no animation displaying the rewiring. This is an inconsistency in that it has always been shown before, meaning, more like than not, that it had no affect. There is everything to show that he was not Geassed, nothing to show that he was.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

And how does that work? V.V was totally rational at the time, as rationale as a dying person can be anyway and him reliving memories says nothing on the matter, I mean, how many people keep saying Lelouch really did die and his relieving memories proves it? At the end of the day though, relieving memories could just be that, relieving memories and have nothing to really do with then code in the end. I don't see any point in which you can make an argument that V.V was any different then how he always was.

I hate arguments that are based on convenience. It is far too plot convenient for V.V. monologue after losing his code to tie perfectly into his childhood before acquiring the code and be just 'rambling'. C.Chi furthers this, she reverted to precode after sealing her own code. Lelouch dieing and reliving his memories would, also, imply that he was dieing, because V.V. was dieing when when reliving his past. Do you really want to say this?

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, we don't know how V.V got his code in the first place do we? Any number of details can be inserted into how or what happened that allowed him to gain it in the first place, even him dieing at one point because we JUST DON'T KNOW!

But, as I said, it is a lapse in judgment for him to be 'Oh don't worry, I'll be ok'. But, if we look at him, his code was clearly activated on shortly after his scene with Charles because he hasn't changed since then. So either he was killed very quickly, he killed himself, or his code was activated the moment he got it.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uhh, didn't C.C provide a counter explanation to this, on her own burden of immortality as well, and was it not revealed that as an immortal she longed for death as did her predecessor, in this case when V.V said that line he could be speaking of their ultimate fate to eventually die, as was the case with his code transfer afterward. As for the comment about if it doesn't activate until that person dies then what happens when he grows old etc... WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY NEVER EXPLAINED GEASS OR CODES OR ANYTHING OF THE LIKE IN DETAIL!! Thus, the whole thing is up for grabs in the end with no real way of confirming or denying the possibilities involved, particularly with Lelouch's survival >_>

So your reasoning is 'because the story was told like shit, leaving blatant plot holes, its ok to make Lelouch alive'? Am I understanding you correctly?

Originally Posted by Hiku

*snip*

You failed to address two points that still refute your theory.

[finalnight]

Holy crap, this thread is almost at 3000 replies! Unprecedented on this forum for an episode thread. I could only see the final chapter/episode of Naruto or Bleach coming close.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Brainwashing his family, and soldiers, killing the JLF, killing Shirley's father, massacring the geass cult.

His family were pricks and shallow aristocrats part of a corrupt and oppressive system, works out, JLF, radical national terrorist who showed no discretion in their methods or restraint for what amounted to a very archaic limited goal in the end, Shirley's father was an accident but also with that manuver he managed to squash all of Cornelia's army, and you know looking at how Rolo turned out I wouldn't say the Geass Cult was undeserved in that as despite being unarmed they sure as hell weren't playing innocent in their experimentation of such a dangerous power. <_<

Something you have to remember is that Britannia is not evil, Britannia is only doing what it did because the imbecile Charles watched Evangelion, and decided to rip it off, so he started wars, to conquer the world, and make his dream a reality.

Uhh, once again, didn't Charles go through his own little tragedy fest which is why he resolved to rid the world of its lies? Oh, and what society was that where it all occurred, why Britannias of course!! Seriously, overall message I feel wasn't about any one individual person, it was about society and the world in general that was the ultimate enemy in the end >_>

Giving the look on C.C's face I think she will manage. At no point in time is a burden ever shown on C.C face. She isn't going to watch the world, so if the Cart Driver is Lelouch I see no reason why he would watch the world. The one mistake you made is forgetting that except for Suzaku, Nunally, and Kallen the ending is SUPER DUPER HAPPY, and continued watching will give you diabetes.

Uh, yeah, before, so they get a little companion ship along his new journey to supposed eternity, what, does his work have to involve him being tied to a rock getting his liver pecked out or something? And I have a hard time seeing him not do anything should this new world he worked for be made to naught some time down the line if he is alive anyway. And Suzaku/Nunnally/Kallen are fine now that he's 'gone', living their own path on their own strength which is how it should be >_>

I have stated that Lelouch died for the sins of the Britannian Royal Family, that just happens to include him.

Also Suzaku is atoning for his sins.

Meh, died for the sins of society and the world around him in general I feel, the Britannian Royal Family was just a manifestation of that byproduct feel, as are most people in today's world as well. The enemy was the world in the end, and that was the one Lelouch took down by the end of this series and began anew.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

we're talking about sins here not fan popularity

Mutual benefit. Part of war, hardly considerable as a sin. You ally with people that have common goals, and they did have a common goal.

An enemy ship, no? One that would have hindered said goals. Again, part of war, and hardly a sin.

Ego stroke or no, it was accidental. And what did you expect him to do, retire at that point and let everything become worse than the way it was before he was present?

Collateral damage is also part of war. I'm not sure how familiar you are with how war works. Most of this stuff is pretty standard. At times, you have to sacrifice few for the sake of many.



Again, enemies. Would you have him make his way through the entire show as a pacifist? Be realistic.



I'm sure killing Japanese didn't help him any either. It was the fact that Clovis was the opposition. I don't understand how you can consider it a sin to destroy your opponents. That's not what a sin is.



Lol, debatable at best that Lelouch is at fault. Rolo killed her, not Lelouch or his actions.


This is concedable as a potential sin, although he did ultimately prevent such future situations by doing so.




Was he motivated by revenge? Absolutely, but he hardly committed many "sins". He did what needed to be done in a war to be successful and rarely showed excess force or did anything vile like shoot up innocents. He was morally ambiguous at times which was an excellent aspect of the show, but he hardly sinned any more than most of the other people he opposed.

When you put it like that than no one sinned, Charles did what he did for the common goal.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Orga777

If I think he lives, I would be more disgusted than I was before. XD

WA-TA-SHI-WA... ZERO!

[White-Snow-Empress]

Originally Posted by Hiku

I



Lelouch estimate of her intelligence in episode 10 sadly seems to make sense now.

Kaguya outstands Kallen and even Todoh in inteligence??!?!!!!
That was a shock.
But since this last episodes, the 'vengance rage' that possessed the OoBK and what CC said to Kaguya 'You didn't know of Lelouch's face until recently, yet you understood part of his true nature, you're such a gentle person' I think proves that Lelouch was utterly right.

ALL HAIL LELOUCH! ALL HAIL CC IN HER SHORT DRESS! ALL HAIL THE HAT!

PS: Who else thinks that red suits Nunnally? I prefer it over her pinky governor dress

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Tael

You failed to address two points that still refute your theory.

It's more like I've been in this thread for the last 100 pages answering the same comments all the time. So if you want me to answer something, be more specific about what and how it refutes this. Because I'm not sure what you're referring to.

But you could have at least given your thoughts to the points I did address.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

Mutual benefit. Part of war, hardly considerable as a sin. You ally with people that have common goals, and they did have a common goal.

Last time I checked, you don't want to use your confidants as pawns in a game. He learned that the hard way though didn't he?

An enemy ship, no? One that would have hindered said goals. Again, part of war, and hardly a sin.

The JLF, a group that he said he was going to "help" and was sent by the Kyoto Group to help, were enemies?

Ego stroke or no, it was accidental. And what did you expect him to do, retire at that point and let everything become worse than the way it was before he was present?

You don't accidentally say "Kill all Japanese." His ego was bruised because Euphie beat him down. And he still destroyed her name all because he was a baby and was ego stroking.

Collateral damage is also part of war. I'm not sure how familiar you are with how war works. Most of this stuff is pretty standard. At times, you have to sacrifice few for the sake of many.

I don't call collapsing a good chunk of a city "standard."

I'm sure killing Japanese didn't help him any either. It was the fact that Clovis was the opposition. I don't understand how you can consider it a sin to destroy your opponents. That's not what a sin is.

Except he is killing for HIMSELF. He could hardly CARE about any one else. Why the hell do you think he abandoned the Black Rebellion? because he never really cared. He just cared about him and HE didn't want to be hurt. Screw everyone elses feelings though. He trampled on them and he never cared till R2 21 when he realized how wrong he was. Hell after he was betrayed by the BKs he pretty much said he was an ass hole. Schneizel even called him out on it and he was right.

Lol, debatable at best that Lelouch is at fault. Rolo killed her, not Lelouch or his actions.

Keeping Rolo around was dangerous and he knew it.

Was he motivated by revenge? Absolutely, but he hardly committed many "sins". He did what needed to be done in a war to be successful and rarely showed excess force or did anything vile like shoot up innocents. He was morally ambiguous at times which was an excellent aspect of the show, but he hardly sinned any more than most of the other people he opposed.

That doesn't excuse him. He did horrible things all for his own goal of revenge. People are just pawns to him. This has been made clear plenty of times through the series. Especially in S1.

[FreezeGeass]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

When you put it like that than no one sinned, Charles did what he did for the common goal.

yes, but Charles plans resulted in harmful treatment towards those who had not wronged him and was born out of selfishness and ill will. he started a meaningless war for his own benefit, not to restore the world to a more peaceful place. at least the charles that was responsible for japan getting messed over, from what i understand charles goals change with the ragnarok connection

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Orga777

The fact he kept Rolo, someone who he KNEW was unstable and talked about killing people nonchalantly as he did all because he needed a "rag" to help his cause should hold him SOMEWHAT responsible. You keep dangerous, unstable people around, and it can come back and bite you in the ass.

You're forgetting the many times Lelouch told Rolo to forget about killing, that he no longer needs to do that. Lelouch never had any clue that Rolo was jealous of Nunnally, so he really can't be held accountable for that.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

OH PLEASE this is too much to read 143pages & more on the way any f'n second just please FIND DIRECTOR GORO TO GET THE REAL ANSWER OUT OF HIS MIND OR ELSE GORO + R2-25 = anno's treatment with those "emails"

GORO if ya reading I WANT THE REAL F'N ANSWER OR ELSE FEEL THE KLAC'S GS-WRATH!!!

only my theroies & my GS-instinct you can follow for that REAL TRUTH

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2420
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2821

Okay, seriously, stop it with all of this "Gs-wrath" blather and telling Goro he's in deep shit if he doesn't answer about Lelouch's fate. The writers left Lelouch's fate up to us to decide for a reason, and frankly, he wouldn't be in the forum and thus he wouldn't see your swearing retribution and all that other happy crap! Get off the damn high horse and calm the fuck down.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

His family were pricks and shallow aristocrats part of a corrupt and oppressive system, works out, JLF, radical national terrorist who showed no discretion in their methods or restraint for what amounted to a very archaic limited goal in the end, Shirley's father was an accident but also with that manuver he managed to squash all of Cornelia's army, and you know looking at how Rolo turned out I wouldn't say the Geass Cult was undeserved in that as despite being unarmed they sure as hell weren't playing innocent in their experimentation of such a dangerous power. <_<



Uhh, once again, didn't Charles go through his own little tragedy fest which is why he resolved to rid the world of its lies? Oh, and what society was that where it all occurred, why Britannias of course!! Seriously, overall message I feel wasn't about any one individual person, it was about society and the world in general that was the ultimate enemy in the end >_>



Uh, yeah, before, so they get a little companion ship along his new journey to supposed eternity, what, does his work have to involve him being tied to a rock getting his liver pecked out or something? And I have a hard time seeing him not do anything should this new world he worked for be made to naught some time down the line if he is alive anyway. And Suzaku/Nunnally/Kallen are fine now that he's 'gone', living their own path on their own strength which is how it should be >_>



Meh, died for the sins of society and the world around him in general I feel, the Britannian Royal Family was just a manifestation of that byproduct feel, as are most people in today's world as well. The enemy was the world in the end, and that was the one Lelouch took down by the end of this series and began anew.

So if your a shallow prick than its fine to rob you of your will, and make you a slave?

You just can't blame the entire problems or "society" on one group of people. What Lelouch did was get rid of one group of people, he didn't take down the world, he took down the oppresive members of the Britannian Royal Family.

[FreezeGeass]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Last time I checked, you don't want to use your confidants as pawns in a game. He learned that the hard way though didn't he?



The JLF, a group that he said he was going to "help" and was sent by the Kyoto Group to help, were enemies?



You don't accidentally say "Kill all Japanese." His ego was bruised because Euphie beat him down. And he still destroyed her name all because he was a baby and was ego stroking.


I don't call collapsing a good chunk of a city "standard."



Except he is killing for HIMSELF. He could hardly CARE about any one else. Why the hell do you think he abandoned the Black Rebellion? because he never really cared. He just cared about him and HE didn't want to be hurt. Screw everyone elses feelings though. He trampled on them and he never cared till R2 21 when he realized how wrong he was. Hell after he was betrayed by the BKs he pretty much said he was an ass hole. Schneizel even called him out on it and he was right.



Keeping Rolo around was dangerous and he knew it.



That doesn't excuse him. He did horrible things all for his own goal of revenge. People are just pawns to him. This has been made clear plenty of times through the series. Especially in S1.

You're confusing sins and some tactical errors. More importantly you are ignoring Lelouch's main motives...he used people as pawns at times, yes, for the greater good should his plans succeed. He was "used" as well for the advantages he brought tactically, no? Did the black knights not ally with Zero because he could guide them better than they could do on their own, and turned on him when he was no longer convenient for their use?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Orga777

.....You are joking right?
Here is a comprised list of what Lelouch done. Note, this was all during his "Whaaa! Daddy doesn't love me! I will make him pay!" Stage of Selfishness:

1) Used the Black Knights for his own selfish goals and never really cared about him. He just told them some pretty words to get them to follow him. Sure they would get what the wanted out of the deal, but he doesn't care if they all die as long as HE gets what HE wants. In other words, considered people expendable.

2) Blowing up the JLF ship for no other reason than to be a rallying point.

3) Euphie SAZ Massacre... You say it was an accident? Would you like to say how saying "Kill all Japanese" just slips out? He was ego stroking. And then what does he do after that? Oh, uses it for a rallying point... right.

4) Many a civilian lost their lives in Narita and most notably the lack Rebellion.

5) "I order you to die!" And not just that one time in the first episode. A lot.

6) Killed Clovis in cold blood. And not because he killed Japanese, but because he can't afford to be found out.

7) Endangered Shirley in S1 and pretty much lead to her death as well because he wanted to use Rolo as a "rag."

8) Geass Cult Massacre all because HE was wronged.

Do you want me to go on? He was a monster. Especially in S1. He didn't care who he trampled on, what anyone elses feelings were, and he definitely didn't CARE about anything other than getting revenge for HIMSELF. When Schneizel said in R2 24 "You who denied people and their wills come here and acknowledge them?" Was truth. Lelouch saw the light in R2 21, but that doesn't excuse him for his sins IMO.

I notice that what you object to, for most of those, are his reasons. Crimes of intent rather than deed. Because his motives weren't pure enough, his acts were wrong.

And because Schneizel's motives were allegedly pure, blowing up Pendragon was righteous.

It's funny. Suzaku used to be about means, Lelouch about results, and you're about intents.

While I do think intents count, there need to be some deed, too, for there to be guilt. And in deeds? Lelouch did right by the BK, except for that time he abandoned them during the Black Rebellion. And he did it, not out of ambition, but because he lost his cool out of fear for his sister. Was it right? No. But doing otherwise just was beyond him.

And the SAZ? He was careless, and people paid the price. That's true.


But for all the rest? Quite justified by his objective - to destroy Britania with what little resources he had - and his results.