Naruto Q&A

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

You think the difference is very big, well Sandaime didn't seem to feel that way and contrary to us he did know the mechanism of this jutsu.
He was the one who explained how this jutsu acted and he was the one saying this was the very jutsu used by Yondaime in order to seal the Kyubi.
He certainely didn't seem to think there was some kind of impossibility about it.

You say it didn't seem like Sandaime could change the path of soul extraction, how can you draw this conclusion given that he never tried nor had any reason to have tried?

But his death isn't presented as something mysterious in the manga.

- Yes, the difference is very big, cause the result is very different - and I am not talking about the number of seals Yondaime used, but the sealing used just by the basic Death God jutsu. It was the first time he had seen the death god, it was the first time Sandaime used the jutsu. Even if the basic operation of the jutsu can be the same, what Yondaime used in his death god technique wasn't definitely used by Sandaime. Also if I am not mistaken Sandaime also said the souls sealed with this jutsu - the one who is sealed and the one who performs the jutsu - suffer for eternity in the Death God's stomach. Now, where is Kyuubi? Naruto's stomach.

It didn't appear to me that Sandaime had any control on the Death God, cause he never had any direct access to the sealed soul.

The jutsu Yondaime used, and the result of the jutsu says a lot about the mysterious "death" of Yondaime (if he really died).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

The jutsu Yondaime used, and the result of the jutsu says a lot about the mysterious "death" of Yondaime (if he really died).

well Yondaime died for sure we know that because the sandaime said that "in exchange for this jutsu to work, you hand over your soul to death. It's a Fuuin jutsu you pay for with your life". it is also contradictory for kishi that he said about the one who is sealed and the one who performs the jutsu will suffer for eternity in the Death God's stomach. i have to agree with you on that.

[Medalist]

Who said Sandaime can't be lying though...you can only know this if you were there...Sandaime i doubt was there...but think about it...I mean..if you see the scene yourself then go ahead and believe..because rumors 90% spread by word of the mouth.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Hunter

But his death isn't presented as something mysterious in the manga.

It is. We have never seen his death, it is gossip. He couldn't be summoned from the dead.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

- Yes, the difference is very big, cause the result is very different - and I am not talking about the number of seals Yondaime used, but the sealing used just by the basic Death God jutsu. It was the first time he had seen the death god, it was the first time Sandaime used the jutsu. Even if the basic operation of the jutsu can be the same, what Yondaime used in his death god technique wasn't definitely used by Sandaime. Also if I am not mistaken Sandaime also said the souls sealed with this jutsu - the one who is sealed and the one who performs the jutsu - suffer for eternity in the Death God's stomach. Now, where is Kyuubi? Naruto's stomach.

You are merely repeating your last post here Sazelyt.
You say you don't speak about the numbers of seal Yondaime used whereas you're talking about the result of his actions which doesn't make any sense since they were used in order to reach the very goal you consider very different.

Your point is basically that the Shiki Fujinn is meant to capture soul(s) which are then to be eaten by the Shikigami which doesn't represent the fact that the Kyubi's soul is inside Naruto. What I pointed out to you is that the Shiki Fujinn was only the first part of what Yondaime did to obtain this result.
The Shiki Fujinn was used first to tear off the Kyubi's soul out of its body, then the Shishou Fuuin was used to take this soul and bind it into someone else and then the 3rd was used to control the relation between these two entities.
So of course it didn't end like what Sandaime did given that Sarutobi only used the Shiki Fujinn since he was only trying to kill Oro and not to create a Jinchuuriki.

If your point was to say that Yondaime being able to do that makes theorically possible that he used yet another seal (or the current 3) to preserve his own soul from the Shikigami in whatever ways you may think about then I would understand. It's still pure assumption not hinted in the manga mind you but it's not particulary improbable depending on "where" his soul might be.
But your point is basically like saying that Nidaime and Yamato aren't using both Water element because Yamato's result is Wood and the fact that he mixes it with Earth element isn't relevant. That, as I said above,doesn't make any sense.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

You are merely repeating your last post here Sazelyt.
You say you don't speak about the numbers of seal Yondaime used whereas you're talking about the result of his actions which doesn't make any sense since they were used in order to reach the very goal you consider very different.

Your point is basically that the Shiki Fujinn is meant to capture soul(s) which are then to be eaten by the Shikigami which doesn't represent the fact that the Kyubi's soul is inside Naruto. What I pointed out to you is that the Shiki Fujinn was only the first part of what Yondaime did to obtain this result.
The Shiki Fujinn was used first to tear off the Kyubi's soul out of its body, then the Shishou Fuuin was used to take this soul and bind it into someone else and then the 3rd was used to control the relation between these two entities.

If your point was to say that Yondaime being able to do that makes theorically possible that he used yet another seal (or the current 3) to preserve his own soul from the Shikigami in whatever ways you may think about then I would understand. It's still pure assumption not hinted in the manga mind you but it's not particulary improbable depending on "where" his soul might be.
But your point is basically like saying that Nidaime and Yamato aren't using both Water element because Yamato's result is Wood and the fact that he mixes it with Earth element isn't relevant. That, as I said above,doesn't make any sense.

The result I am talking about is mostly related to the result of Death God jutsu. There are other jutsus involved as you said, but the main part is how Yondaime was able to claim the soul back from Death God. I think you consider it outside Death God jutsu. I am not sure about that. For me, it is possible that claiming the soul from Death God can also be a part of the original Death God jutsu Yondaime used.

After you gave comments from Sandaime, I also gave another comment from Sandaime, that says the souls of both the sealed and sealer go into the stomach of Death God. However, we know that, in Yondaime's case, that wasn't what happened. And it is not easy to believe a typical sealing jutsu can access the soul taken by the Death God, unless the Death God jutsu itself can be used for that.

And, for your last theory, yes, that is one of the theories I consider. Since Yondaime can claim Kyuubi's soul from the Death God, he can also do the same thing for his own soul. And, again this can be used to open a path for theories about him not being death. Still, I consider it to happen in a give and take manner - more like within the Death God technique. Specifically, he needs to replace the souls that should be taken by Death God with other souls. (And that is where Naruto's parents might enter the picture.)

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

The result I am talking about is mostly related to the result of Death God jutsu. There are other jutsus involved as you said, but the main part is how Yondaime was able to claim the soul back from Death God. I think you consider it outside Death God jutsu. I am not sure about that. For me, it is possible that claiming the soul from Death God can also be a part of the original Death God jutsu Yondaime used.

Hmmm how would you see that working?
Because it seems to me that would be assuming he used the two other seals after the shikigami ate their souls which would mean almost at the moment when he -or his body- died which isn't very likely.
Hence Yondaime probably had to use his 2nd seal to bind the soul of the Kyubi inside Naruto before the Shikigami actually ate it.
Basically he interrupted the regular process of the Shiki Fujinn to place and secure the soul he had just teared off with another Seal.

Specifically, he needs to replace the souls that should be taken by Death God with other souls. (And that is where Naruto's parents might enter the picture.)

Now that would be funny.

[minuteman]

dose anyone know what village he is from?

[Rich]

unknown... i mistaked it for rain.

[Rachy]

It's Unknown.

Use the Q&A thread more often for questions .

[Blaine]

Originally Posted by minuteman

dose anyone know what village he is from?

Yeah thie village hiden is from hasnet been mentioned although some say he mabye from hidden rain considering is headband looks similar to the hidden rain headband (though it is slightly different)

[gibits]

I got a question.

Kakashi said its impossible to combine chakra nature and shape into one jutsu but Sasuke and Kakashi are able to mold lightning into some shape. If he stated that it was impossible for even the 4th to do then why is it we have seen this happen many times already? Even Gaara has already molded wind into a ball.

Is it that the more you manipluate it shape the less you can change its nature?

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by gibits

I got a question.

Kakashi said its impossible to combine chakra nature and shape into one jutsu but Sasuke and Kakashi are able to mold lightning into some shape. If he stated that it was impossible for even the 4th to do then why is it we have seen this happen many times already? Even Gaara has already molded wind into a ball.

Is it that the more you manipluate it shape the less you can change its nature?

Manga:

Spoiler:

Chidori doesn't manipulate shape, it's just lightning chakra gathered in the hand.

Gaara's wind things do you mean Shukaku's attacks? they aren't shape or nature manipulated at all. Just attacks.

[Rurik]

Rave , Gibits, read this:

Spoiler:

Nope, Chidory has both Nature and Shape Manipulation, Kakashi mentioned this in Chapter 314- “I need to alter the Nature of my Chakra into an Electrical Current like an electrical discharge, I alter its Shape this decide power and range”

Kakashi did not say that its is impossible give element and Shape the Chakra for one Jutsu , he said that “ the number of shinobi who can recompose their chakra both "elementally" and "spatially" at the same time are quite limited”

The problem, is that the level of Shape Manipulation the rasengan has, made it impossible (or almost) for Yondaime or Kakashi to Alter its Nature.

So gibits, your last sentecne could be correct.

[Rachy]

Rurik:

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Rurik

So gibits, your last sentecne could be correct.

Originally Posted by gibits

Is it that the more you manipluate it shape the less you can change its nature?

No it's not like that it's just that the more u do of one thing, the harder it gets to do the other at the same time.

Originally Posted by Rurik

Nope, Chidory has both Nature and Shape Manipulation, Kakashi mentioned this in Chapter 314- “I need to alter the Nature of my Chakra into an Electrical Current like an electrical discharge, I alter its Shape this decide power and range”

Thats like basic chakra control shaping, not form like rasengan.

[Rurik]

You know the drill….

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by miss rave

No it's not like that it's just that the more u do of one thing, the harder it gets to do the other at the same time.

Given That it was mentioned that it was something not everyone could do, I guess it could be the highest the level of Shape Manipulation, the difficult it is to Alter is Element nature. Thus what gibits was referring to.

Not to mention, Kakashi was talking about how Rasengan could not be (or it was extremely difficult to) altered its element given the level of Chakra Manipulation it had.

Thats like basic chakra control shaping, not form like rasengan.

Lets Requote you "Chidori doesn't manipulate shape, it's just lightning chakra gathered in the hand"

It is irrelevant if its basic or is it not, Chidory does requires Shape Manipulation, and that’s was my correction to you. and Kakshi never said Chidory Chakra manipulation was "Basic" he said "unlike Chidory, rasengan is a jutsu relying only on extremely advanced "spatial recomposition""

[gibits]

Originally Posted by miss rave

Rurik:

Spoiler:

No it's not like that it's just that the more u do of one thing, the harder it gets to do the other at the same time.



Thats like basic chakra control shaping, not form like rasengan.

Shukaku's attacks were made of wind, and they were in the shape of a orb. Maybe for a tailed monster its an easy feat but it certainly had an element and a shape.

My question which Rurik answered was if more of one meant less of another, or if they were mutually exclusive. I was just confused since Kakashi said it was impossible to merge both, but then goes and does exactly that.

[Rachy]

kay..

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Rurik

Given That it was mentioned that it was something not everyone could do, I guess it could be the highest the level of Shape Manipulation, the difficult it is to Alter is Element nature. Thus what gibits was referring to.

Not to mention, Kakashi was talking about how Rasengan could not be (or it was extremely difficult to) altered its element given the level of Chakra Manipulation it had.

He said the more you change it's shape the less you change it's nature, which is wrong it's just harder to do them both together.

he said no one had done it so it could basically be impossible.

Lets Requote you "Chidori doesn't manipulate shape, it's just lightning chakra gathered in the hand"

It is irrelevant if its basic or is it not, Chidory does requires Shape Manipulation, and that’s was my correction to you. and Kakshi never said Chidory Chakra manipulation was "Basic" he said "unlike Chidory, rasengan is a jutsu relying only on extremely advanced "spatial recomposition""

Well yes, shape manipulation in the form of chakra control, not form manipulation i was referring more to rasengan, my mistake ~_~.

Originally Posted by gibits

Shukaku's attacks were made of wind, and they were in the shape of a orb. Maybe for a tailed monster its an easy feat but it certainly had an element and a shape.

No shukaku is just wind element, like kyuubi would be fire, when a nin uses chakra he uses normal chakra but like Shukaku his normal chakra is wind so it requires no manipulation.

He was jus firing them out of his mouth, it would be stupid for them to be in squares or rectangles.

[gibits]

Then what about that frog's waterballs? Or Sasuke's fire dragon? My point is we have seen lots of elemental and shape manipulation, why is it such a big deal now?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by miss rave

kay..

Spoiler:

He said the more you change it's shape the less you change it's nature, which is wrong it's just harder to do them both together.

Spoiler:

Kakashi explanation on Rasengan sort of made clear this has to do wiht the Level of Shape Manipulation.

Kakashi stated that it is difficult to combine both of the shape and nature Manipulation, and its something that could be said to be attach to talent, but once you can do this, for the rasengan it is difficult or impossible to Change its nature, even for those who can already do Nature and Shape Manipulation at the same time. Hence why He said it could be S-Rank or even Higher Ranked.

Spoiler:

he said no one had done it so it could basically be impossible.

This was specific to Rasengan.