(L) Saki manga

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

But that's the result, not necessarily the intend. If that is indeed the intend then Saki is definitely the Evil Haraguro Maou of the series that was out to destroy every Mahjong players who stands in her path.

Seriously though, it ability of hers was there since the beginning just got overshadowed by her affinity of Rinshan.

I've always thought that the reason Teru develop such hatred toward her (even though they were close before) was precisely because of this, it might even be a reason why their parent split as well....

Well I assume her parents have some skills as well, and Teru does but apparently Saki even back then was still going +-0. It probably really pissed Teru off. Actually a lot of people on /a/ and I agree with the opinion that the true evil monster of mahjong in this series is Saki, not Teru.

[NeutralZero]

Unless we got a valid excuse from her in the next chapter then she might really be one but... if so then she's worst than Koromo in her past... in a different degree...
Still hope that ain't true... except for the reason Teru is mad at her... the she holding back and getting +/- 0

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by The Green One

I thought Saki's promise was not to purposely throw more games using the +/- 0 method, the difference here is that she won the game and even secured a tactical advantage for her team. Nodoka's goal is to win the tournament so I don't think she'd complain how Saki goes about doing it unless she pulls something to mock the other teams like Koromo purposely avoiding winning the game just to reduce Ikeda's score to exactly zero to purposely grind her nose into the fact that she's powerless to fight back.

It's unknown if Nodoka noticed anything "odd" about Saki considering her lack of belief in the occult, but it's doubtful any inquires about it will have anger in it, confusion maybe, but not anger.

Does manipulating the game to make the last place come second count as mocking? Because it should. I know you have a point, but that would be a pretty dissapointing development for many who were waiting some suffering for our main couple (blame the famous final preview for that).

I don't expect Nodoka to give a plop about anyone else's suffering, but some kind of non-happy reaction would be welcome.

@Sumeragi
Early? This came out almost at the end of the series regular TV run (I saw a couple scans before the last episode), that's snail speed for the Japanese otaku standards.

And thanks, looking forward to more Hisa pimping already.

[tsunade666]

Spoiler for 99:

[Marina2]

My theories about the reason behind Teru x Saki conflict (Feel free to comment)

Spoiler for Theory, text wall:

In the past (when she was young), Saki played mahjong only to defeat everyone who dare to fight with her and feel no fun from it. She usually played Mahjong with her family members. A person in her family who could defeat her for may time was Teru, her sisiter. For Saki, Teru was like her idol in mahjong game, the person who she wanted to be so, she secreatly trained herself to become better.

One day, Teru told Saki about "Rinchan Kaihou" and she interested in it. She started to try to do it and after sometime past she can master it. With it and her original skill, Saki was now reborned as a ultimate monster.

After that, the game between family was never the same, Saki won everyone in her family about 98% of game. This made both of her parent pissed-off and start to bore to play with her. Even Teru, who was in Saki view point at that time, seemed to be less challenged and played with her less often as well.

Saki started to think about the reason why her family played with her lessoften and she figued it out - She was too strong.

"That's it. That must be why they looked bored and unhappy to play withme. No one want to play with a person who can win 98% of time" Saki thought.

After that she started to change the way she played, she aim to get +/- 0 (draw) so that she wasn't win and wasn't loss as well. In this way she can let other people win while still not "loss". With this, she hoped that her family will br happy to play with her again.

BUT it got worst. After each game, her family will look at her with the "unexplainable" face expression (For Saki).While her sister, Teru, looked even more unhappy.

"Why? Even I did that, why everyone still not happy!?"

"I know! My playstyle must be to brutal. I will stop using my "monster"-ed way of play* and play it more casualy (Still use Rinchan Of course!). I will try to make everyone at table happy when they play with me!"

*Monster way of play = what's she just did in quarter-final round*

It works, Her parents look happy again but her sister............

One day,

Teru just stood up from the table and said "I won't play with you anymore"

This shock Saki very much.

What Saki never know was, Teru, in fact, also saw Saki as her "idol". Teru like everything about how Saki played even Saki "monster form" and also want to get as good as her in Mahjong game.

After Saki reborn as "monster", Teru had been secreatly train to caught up with Saki. But when she was sure she was now on the same level as Saki, Saki started to do those +/- 0. As first, Teru thought it must be a coincident but soon she knew that it is Saki's intension and very upset.

Teru not only upset because what Saki did is like a look down on her but she also upset that the way Saki did that (+ - 0) was totally impossible for her.

"I can accept Saki's "Rinchan kaihou" as "She's just lucky" but +/- 0 ?? There is no way someone can do that everytime.......Yes.....even me can't do it"

"Damm,that Saki - she played like that and she didn't even intend to win!!!"

Then, after Saki stopped her "Monster way of play" too and play it as soft as possible. While parent look happy but for Teru........

"Saki can use Rinchan kaihou to get +/- Zeroscore in every game but she didn't even play serious........Where is my old "Monster" Saki?? When and Why did she become a kind player like this???"

"This is not Saki that I know anymore, I don't have a sister like this!"

After that ,Marina2 feel that he need to sleep and will continue writting this tomorrow.

Note: Sorry for typo and grammar error (if any), I haven't recheck it yet.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Does manipulating the game to make the last place come second count as mocking? Because it should. I know you have a point, but that would be a pretty dissapointing development for many who were waiting some suffering for our main couple (blame the famous final preview for that).

I don't expect Nodoka to give a plop about anyone else's suffering, but some kind of non-happy reaction would be welcome.

@Sumeragi
Early? This came out almost at the end of the series regular TV run (I saw a couple scans before the last episode), that's snail speed for the Japanese otaku standards.

And thanks, looking forward to more Hisa pimping already.

The problem I have with the complaints about Saki's "evilness" is what on earth is the poor girl supposed to do? Nodoka will get upset if Saki intentionally holds back and doesn't play seriously, if she does play seriously and wipes out her enemies Nodoka will still get upset? Doesn't that sound a bit unreasonable?

This is a competitive tournament and the goal is to win, plus Saki has important business in the finals and can't afford any obstructions to get there. The other schools are in her way and she must defeat them to pass. So what must she do? Answer: Destroy the enemy. This isn't anything personal to the other schools just using the means in her abilities to defeat them.

I can appreciate the desire for drama between Saki and Nodoka but seeing some reactions of basically calling Saki a cruel and heartless monster toying with her opponents just really unreasonable. She's here to fight and defeat the other teams, wouldn't it be more insulting to hold back against them which was Nodoka's original complaint with Saki. Why did Saki wait until the end to suddenly destroy them? Would it of been better if she went fully Teru and just rip them to pieces starting from hand 2? I'm sure there still would of been complaints.

I think a lot of people are just upset that some of their more favorite characters got eliminated and that's perfectly fine but cmon now.....

Sorry for the rant but it was just really starting to bug me as I'm just as biased as anyone else.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by The Green One

The problem I have with the complaints about Saki's "evilness" is what on earth is the poor girl supposed to do? Nodoka will get upset if Saki intentionally holds back and doesn't play seriously, if she does play seriously and wipes out her enemies Nodoka will still get upset? Doesn't that sound a bit unreasonable?

This is a competitive tournament and the goal is to win, plus Saki has important business in the finals and can't afford any obstructions to get there. The other schools are in her way and she must defeat them to pass. So what must she do? Answer: Destroy the enemy. This isn't anything personal to the other schools just using the means in her abilities to defeat them.

I can appreciate the desire for drama between Saki and Nodoka but seeing some reactions of basically calling Saki a cruel and heartless monster toying with her opponents just really unreasonable. She's here to fight and defeat the other teams, wouldn't it be more insulting to hold back against them which was Nodoka's original complaint with Saki. Why did Saki wait until the end to suddenly destroy them? Would it of been better if she went fully Teru and just rip them to pieces starting from hand 2? I'm sure there still would of been complaints.

I think a lot of people are just upset that some of their more favorite characters got eliminated and that's perfectly fine but cmon now.....

Sorry for the rant but it was just really starting to bug me as I'm just as biased as anyone else.

I think you're being too serious about the "Evil Maou" thing.

Obvious this series is more a comedy than actual good v.s. evil or even a true competitive mahjong manga about friendship and personal skill improvement.

Most people (at least the ones I know in Asian forum) are treating "Evil Maou" thing like how Lahal was in Disgaea, it's not anything really anything bad, the just treat it like an RPG as most ACG fan would do.

It's not really surprising especially there is a trend in comedic ACG work to have POV from that traditionally "evil" side of equation. Sort like Kyuo kara Maou, Disgaea, and like.

It's basically Japan's take of anti-hero.

Personally, my take is Saki is doing all this unconsciously. Not knowing how her action might effects other, all she need is a Hero to point her the right way and turn her to light, be it Nodoka or the fallen hero Teru...

[Academus]

Originally Posted by The Green One

The problem I have with the complaints about Saki's "evilness" is what on earth is the poor girl supposed to do? Nodoka will get upset if Saki intentionally holds back and doesn't play seriously, if she does play seriously and wipes out her enemies Nodoka will still get upset? Doesn't that sound a bit unreasonable?

This is a competitive tournament and the goal is to win, plus Saki has important business in the finals and can't afford any obstructions to get there. The other schools are in her way and she must defeat them to pass. So what must she do? Answer: Destroy the enemy. This isn't anything personal to the other schools just using the means in her abilities to defeat them.

I can appreciate the desire for drama between Saki and Nodoka but seeing some reactions of basically calling Saki a cruel and heartless monster toying with her opponents just really unreasonable. She's here to fight and defeat the other teams, wouldn't it be more insulting to hold back against them which was Nodoka's original complaint with Saki. Why did Saki wait until the end to suddenly destroy them? Would it of been better if she went fully Teru and just rip them to pieces starting from hand 2? I'm sure there still would of been complaints.

I think a lot of people are just upset that some of their more favorite characters got eliminated and that's perfectly fine but cmon now.....

Sorry for the rant but it was just really starting to bug me as I'm just as biased as anyone else.

Spoiler for 99:

I think you missed the point completely, because what's happening is that some of us think Saki
1, deliberately does +/- 0 instead of going in full force and
2, purposely brings Himematsu, considered to be the weakest team, into next round by giving Suehara's hand 2 kan dora
Neither is very sportsmanlike. What will you think of Toki if she doesn't go against Teru, and instead score points from the others to make sure Senriyama's at the second place when Achiga goes under?
For the record I'm impartial on this. While it's not the most noble and honourable thing one can do, it is definitely a valid strategy. At least she doesn't send other players into hospital. Yet.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Academus

Spoiler for 99:

I think you missed the point completely, because what's happening is that some of us think Saki
1, deliberately does +/- 0 instead of going in full force and
2, purposely brings Himematsu, considered to be the weakest team, into next round by giving Suehara's hand 2 kan dora
Neither is very sportsmanlike. What will you think of Toki if she doesn't go against Teru, and instead score points from the others to make sure Senriyama's at the second place when Achiga goes under?
For the record I'm impartial on this. While it's not the most noble and honourable thing one can do, it is definitely a valid strategy. At least she doesn't send other players into hospital. Yet.

Spoiler for 99:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of sportsmanship. How is just a full force brutal beatdown any more sporting then calmly waiting for a good opportunity to strike to secure a good setup? Plus it's just not in Saki's personality to destroy someone like that. All her years of playing with her family has ingrained the personal style of waiting and watching the situation and making subtle adjustments to achieve the desired results. This is just the way she is.

I don't really feel the Toki example fits here. Toki wasn't specifically protecting the others she was looking for ways to be able to fight back against Teru's overwhelming power as even if she made it to the finals she still has to figure out how to beat Teru eventually.

Saki doesn't have any real reason to do nice things for the other teams, they're just strangers to her, her motives are to advance her own team to the finals and this setup serves those goals the best. She beat the other teams because she was better, not because she was underhanded.

Saki is here to reach the finals to meet her sister and to help her team win by defeating all those who cross her path and she's made a start at that with this setup, and that is the entire point of this.

[Academus]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Spoiler for 99:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of sportsmanship. How is just a full force brutal beatdown any more sporting then calmly waiting for a good opportunity to strike to secure a good setup? Plus it's just not in Saki's personality to destroy someone like that. All her years of playing with her family has ingrained the personal style of waiting and watching the situation and making subtle adjustments to achieve the desired results. This is just the way she is.

I don't really feel the Toki example fits here. Toki wasn't specifically protecting the others she was looking for ways to be able to fight back against Teru's overwhelming power as even if she made it to the finals she still has to figure out how to beat Teru eventually.

Saki doesn't have any real reason to do nice things for the other teams, they're just strangers to her, her motives are to advance her own team to the finals and this setup serves those goals the best. She beat the other teams because she was better, not because she was underhanded.

Saki is here to reach the finals to meet her sister and to help her team win by defeating all those who cross her path and she's made a start at that with this setup, and that is the entire point of this.

To quote your own words: We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of sportsmanship.
As I stated I think it's a valid strategy, but there's no denying that unlike Toki, Saki chooses the esay way out.
Besides, the purpose of my reply is to show the reason why some are not happy with Saki's action, which is not necessarily related to their passion for other characters as you suggested.
In any case the whole "black Saki" thing is, as Undertaker suggested, a meme thing because everyone loves antihero.

[Serperior]

Spoiler:

Did I hear someone's heart breaking?

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Serperior

Spoiler:

Did I hear someone's heart breaking?

Yep, even I have to admit that one pulls at the old heartstrings there, no question of that. Poor thing.

@Acaademus

Fair enough, you do have some valid points too, I suppose I just like the energy of the discussion most of all. When both sides have valid interpretations, I think those are the most interesting.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

Personally, my take is Saki is doing all this unconsciously. Not knowing how her action might effects other, all she need is a Hero to point her the right way and turn her to light, be it Nodoka or the fallen hero Teru...

Did you forget the "I will meet onee-chan, and crush everyone in the way" part? Saki knows exactly what she's doing.

Also, Nodoka looked rather concerned at that statement, which further strenghts my believe there will be some reaction from her next chapter, which only now I'm realizing is the 100th chapter. Coincidence?

[Undertaker]

I remember that, which is why I said before that the question here is that the fact that Himematsu advanced, was it intentional or simply a by product of the result of her ability?

If it's intentional , then obviously we are seeing a Black Haraguro Saki soon. But if Himematsu advance was just a coincidence because Saki's ability (right now I'm assuming is complete control of match flow as long as she is aiming for +/-) then everything is different. Though to be clear, either way doesn't contradict her claim of crushing everyone in her path.

Basically, I'm saying that Saki might not have choice but to allow Himematsu to score big to prevent getting into as score race with other two schools and Himematsu's advance might not be part of intend.

But who knows, maybe we'll know the truth next chapter..


BTW, anniversary chapters rarely mean anything story-wise in manga unlike in U.S. comic. You might got a congratulatory shout out in first page that that would be it. Even a special color spread is usually reserved more for years milestone than chapters milestone.

[The Green One]

At the very least this marathon match is FINALLY over. Maybe we can finally get some new developments, a breath of fresh air would be nice.

[Sumeragi]

*Part of heart dies*

TOYONE-CHAN!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

*Part of heart dies*

TOYONE-CHAN!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess everyone have a part of their hearts dies in both the spinoff anime and manga... I got a total of 2 parts lost on both sides...

Saki how could you... Mahjong is not tanoshii if its like this...

[tarajis]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Wait... this match also takes place in the achiga-hen anime, and we clearly see that Kiyosumi passed, so how does Saki go from "you're alive because I feel like it" to "can't go in, onee-chan will eat me"? Sure, Teru is terrifying, but right now it seems Saki is the only one with the power to defeat her.

Maybe Saki just realized after the match what she just did... remember she wants to reconcile with her sister but after she just did she probably just caused trouble... Saki playing +/- zero may be a major factor on the Miyanaga Siblings situation... now she just did that on National TV... not to mention the announcer saying she did that +/- zero thing consecutively during the individuals... now, how can she meet with her sister saying I changed how to play, I play to win now? she's scared meeting her in the hallway looking for the washroom...

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by tarajis

Maybe Saki just realized after the match what she just did... remember she wants to reconcile with her sister but after she just did she probably just caused trouble... Saki playing +/- zero may be a major factor on the Miyanaga Siblings situation... now she just did that on National TV... not to mention the announcer saying she did that +/- zero thing consecutively during the individuals... now, how can she meet with her sister saying I changed how to play, I play to win now? she's scared meeting her in the hallway looking for the washroom...

That actually makes perfect sense. Could it be Saki is now having so much fun making tall moe girls cry she doesn't even realize her own actions until it's too late?

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Serperior

Spoiler:

Did I hear someone's heart breaking?

My heart...

I have half a mind to start hating on Saki, but lucky for her, she's way too awesome for my hate.