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Old 2020-10-28, 15:44   Link #3041
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
Yup. Miyuki better clean his room.
It was very depressing... Even the most depressed girl find that very depressing and very terrifying...
Honestly I didn't find it depressing, just disturbing. Like something you'd see in a horror movie. I kind of wish one of them said something along the lines of "All work and no play..."
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Old 2020-10-28, 16:06   Link #3042
WingedAccelerator
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I joked about that love letter to Negi, but Zaibatsu put the exact same line there. Now I'm really curious what's the original. Granted, some of these japanese sentences give translators a healthy amount of freedom.

Also, I just wanted to make this reminder that Aka did say he is planning on adding more characters in the future, including males during the 3rd year arc, so who knows? Maybe Iino gets a new love interest, possibly Hayasaka could get one as well.
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Old 2020-10-28, 16:18   Link #3043
BWTraveller
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I'm not sure how this's a "love letter to Negi".

Also I got my hands on the original and as for what he said, first he told Chika "Boku no 趣味志向 ni wa maji de gachi de soguwanai desu". Then when Chika suggested Miko, he responded "Iya iya Fujiwara-senpai, ima made nani o mite kitan desu ka? Ichiban nai yatsu desho sore". I'm not 100% certain what the kanji in bold comes out as, but I think it basically comes down to type. As for what the last part about Miko means, I'd say it can come out in one of two ways. One is "are you blind? No one's less my type than that right?", and the other would be "What've you been looking at till now? There's no one less likely is there?" This second meaning could mean she's not his type, or that she's someone he'd never choose, or conversely that he can't see her going for him or something to that extent. In any case, it really doesn't feel like something he's ever considered even a possibility, which would make sense with someone who'd hardly ever treated him with respect, openly stated that she couldn't think of one good thing about him, always got on his case and seriously seemed like the one person he'd never be able to get along with. And again, this is something that could change very easily with a bit more time spent together without him focusing on Tsubame or improving himself to be a better match to Tsubame, as well as something as simple as her revealing that she now does indeed have more respect and positive feelings toward him.

Anyway, I'd say my skepticism about such statements can be directly correlated to how emphatic and/or flippant they are. If a guy seriously says that he doesn't believe they'd get on well I'd find it fairly believable. If a guy treats a suggestion as a joke saying "like that'd ever happen" I instead get the impression that the guy has never even considered it, just wrote it off as something that "obviously" wouldn't happen and didn't think twice. It's particularly with this type of guy that things like confessions or even just a bit of effort at kindness can have a big impact because it completely shatters the preconceptions that such a thing can't possibly happen.

Last edited by BWTraveller; 2020-10-28 at 16:59.
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Old 2020-10-28, 16:39   Link #3044
Lex79
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From what I read elsewhere the original text is:
いやいや藤原先輩
今まで何を見てきたんですか
一番無いやつでしょそれ
I don't know Japanese, but google translate gives me this:
No, senior Fujiwara
What have you seen so far
It ’s the least
Assuming that the last line means something like "it's the least likely scenario", the implication seems to be that Ishigami finds extremely unlikely that he and Iino could get together given their previous rocky relationship.
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Old 2020-10-28, 17:02   Link #3045
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Exactly. Sorry I took so long to add the content above. And yeah, particularly with him saying "Ima made nani o mite kitan desu ka" (What've you been looking at so far :roughly their past seems like the most likely cause for him ruling it out.
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Old 2020-10-28, 17:46   Link #3046
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Ishigami should be reasonable enough to evaluate everything with Iino so far to make that statement, not hung up on past fights and bickerings. I really don't think he would hold this against Iino, but I also do think the so-called chemistry between them are just them being opposites. Only time will tell whose headcanon will be proven right or wrong. Spring break will give them time to heal before new beginnings happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'm not sure how this's a "love letter to Negi".
"There is no way that would happen" was uttered by Fuutarou to the gossips of him dating one of the quints, in front of said quint. Said quint also said the same to the gossipers wondering if they are really a couple with a depressed face. Said quint also outright asked about herself as someone Fuutarou has romantic feelings for, who calmly denied it. Guess how this farce ended... Or rather do not even guess.
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Old 2020-10-28, 17:55   Link #3047
Tenzen12
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I don't know if Ishigami should be reasonable enough, but as far as his interactions with Iino goes it would be his very first time
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Old 2020-10-28, 18:27   Link #3048
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Ishigami should be reasonable enough to evaluate everything with Iino so far to make that statement, not hung up on past fights and bickerings. I really don't think he would hold this against Iino, but I also do think the so-called chemistry between them are just them being opposites. Only time will tell whose headcanon will be proven right or wrong. Spring break will give them time to heal before new beginnings happen.
Yeah, only time will tell. But honestly I feel, as I've felt for a while, that you are seriously exaggerating Ishigami's growth and maturity to make that fit. He's a guy who's had two crushes and acted on them. That doesn't make him a mature and reasonable individual who would respond to any statement with careful and serious thought. And if he had, his response seriously doesn't look like it. As I said, when I see a person say something along the lines of "yeah right, that'd never happen" I really don't get the impression that they're being serious.

Also, they're clearly not opposites. They both have really strong drives and convictions, though what they're convicted about differs, and their interests are very well aligned. Their opposition is all about when it is and isn't appropriate to bend or break the rules and what level of leniency should be taken with those who do so. Outside of that one area they're very similar, and they've both grown in those areas substantially.
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Old 2020-10-28, 21:54   Link #3049
~Yami~
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depressed Iino is scarier than depressed Ishigami
Although both are seeking comfort randomly, Iino might just give herself to someone random as long as he agreed to hug her from behind

and Fujiwara made it worse

at least we should move to "house visit" chapter before coming back to these depressed couple
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Old 2020-10-29, 00:40   Link #3050
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Ishigami should be reasonable enough to evaluate everything with Iino so far to make that statement, not hung up on past fights and bickerings. I really don't think he would hold this against Iino, but I also do think the so-called chemistry between them are just them being opposites. Only time will tell whose headcanon will be proven right or wrong. Spring break will give them time to heal before new beginnings happen.
Even if he doesn't hold it against her, that doesn't necessarily means he believes the other way around is the same. He can still think that she doesn't like him.

Keep in mind he has shown to be oblivious to how romance works and didn't even know that he confessed to Tsubame at first.
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Old 2020-10-29, 03:08   Link #3051
WingedAccelerator
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Yeah, only time will tell. But honestly I feel, as I've felt for a while, that you are seriously exaggerating Ishigami's growth and maturity to make that fit. He's a guy who's had two crushes and acted on them. That doesn't make him a mature and reasonable individual who would respond to any statement with careful and serious thought. And if he had, his response seriously doesn't look like it. As I said, when I see a person say something along the lines of "yeah right, that'd never happen" I really don't get the impression that they're being serious.

Also, they're clearly not opposites. They both have really strong drives and convictions, though what they're convicted about differs, and their interests are very well aligned. Their opposition is all about when it is and isn't appropriate to bend or break the rules and what level of leniency should be taken with those who do so. Outside of that one area they're very similar, and they've both grown in those areas substantially.
If you are making it personal, I will also say that these type of wall of text headcanon essays with miniscule facts from the manga regarding the pairing is getting really tiresome. I have never said they can't get together after Ishigami's line, but it's a boring, clichéd way of doing things that shouldn't have happened if that will be the end result. But I sure as hell won't support the pairing, not after how it's handled so far. I have no reason to be optimistic that my opnion will change, but at least Aka can make it mutual romance somehow.

Now there is Ishigami's line. If I exaggerate his growth that got plenty of chapters, then what do you call clinging to some idea that Ishigami said 133 chapters ago, when Iino just joined and was a complete pain in the ass? Sheer desperation? Even if Ishigami would have straight up rejected Iino face-to-face here, some people would still say he only did it because he thinks Iino doesn't think of him that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Even if he doesn't hold it against her, that doesn't necessarily means he believes the other way around is the same. He can still think that she doesn't like him.

Keep in mind he has shown to be oblivious to how romance works and didn't even know that he confessed to Tsubame at first.
Wasn't that a festival custom? Give him slack there, because he said nothing, just won a big heart and gave it to Tsubame. While you could say it's an obvious sign of confession, it's really not if you are not heard of the custom before. He also found that heart-shaped earring, keychain or what was that and gave it to Iino to return to the Lost and Found. Of course that made Iino so happy when there should be nothing happy about that.
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Old 2020-10-29, 07:35   Link #3052
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I can't get enough of Miko teasing Miyuki. She feels like a completely different character when she's with him, she should show that side of her to Ishigami.

I wonder how Kaguya would react seeing them act like this.
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Old 2020-10-29, 09:46   Link #3053
Tenzen12
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It's quite silly assume someone who deal with break up by hoping getting rebound date as emotionaly grown up and expert on romance

Well, it's not wrong say that Ishigami who failed in love twice is more experienced then Iino, but we have yet to see him learning any lesson from it. As far as sucessful romances goes, they are on same level. I just hope Ishigami doesn't take wrong lesson and rebound to his former lazy self as hard work apparently didn't do him any service...
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Old 2020-10-29, 09:50   Link #3054
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
If you are making it personal, I will also say that these type of wall of text headcanon essays with miniscule facts from the manga regarding the pairing is getting really tiresome. I have never said they can't get together after Ishigami's line, but it's a boring, clichéd way of doing things that shouldn't have happened if that will be the end result. But I sure as hell won't support the pairing, not after how it's handled so far. I have no reason to be optimistic that my opnion will change, but at least Aka can make it mutual romance somehow.

Now there is Ishigami's line. If I exaggerate his growth that got plenty of chapters, then what do you call clinging to some idea that Ishigami said 133 chapters ago, when Iino just joined and was a complete pain in the ass? Sheer desperation? Even if Ishigami would have straight up rejected Iino face-to-face here, some people would still say he only did it because he thinks Iino doesn't think of him that way.
I am sorry, I did not mean to make things personal; I'm not really good with saying things right, that's also why my text tends to be excessive.

That said, this is yet another "exaggeration" to do things like accuse people of "clinging" to things said more than a hundred chapters ago, completely ignoring a broad range of things that have happened since, showing concern between the two, respect, And yeah, I do mention something that happened 32 chapters ago (not that long, not near as long as you claim) a fair amount, because that wasn't so long ago chronologically and quickly shows a good bit of characterization that wasn't seen before, including, yes, similarities that the two hadn't realized before then. As for his growth, what real evidence is there that he's gone that far to such an incredibly mature, well-balanced young man now? His growth is genuine, yes, but he's still a teenager, and has been demonstrated to still suffer from a lot of his old hang-ups, even if he's improved his style and drive. He's still very new to love and far from the sort of maturity suggested. Tsubame's like that, but even then this conclusion didn't come from just a casual, automatic reaction but from a lot of time and serious consideration. I just can't help but find it a stretch to claim that anyone in this story is at such a level of maturity that they can be said to have seriously thought through the possibilities that they consider obviously impossible. But then, this may be just a difference in what we believe reasonable to expect from people at different levels of maturity; honestly I even doubt that many full-grown adults with multiple successful relationships in their past would be so mature that I'd take scenes like this as evidence that they'd thought things through.

But anyway, I do disagree with you on some fundamental points. True, to an extent Miko and Ishigami would be a fairly well-used trope, and some may consider it cliche, but what's happened so far is something I'm quite unused to seeing. As I'd said before, I've come across a fair number of love triangles, and when the triangles wind up like this, setting up one pair with all kinds of connections and complementary personality and shared interests and history while setting up little if anything on the other pair, I've had a lot of difficulty finding stories that conclude with the first pair. If I've just had bad luck finding the supposedly cliche route, I'd be delighted to hear it and find the numerous series that follow a route that makes more sense and better fits my liking. But yeah, once the hypotenuse is removed and you have just a pair with this kind of relationship, I won't deny that it's very frequently done. Whether this's done because it's a cliche or somehow expected or because the set-up when done right produces good chemistry is a matter of opinion that we'll just have to disagree about.

All that said, I've looked back a bit and I will admit that Miko still has a ways to go in terms of growth. She's definitely better now than she was at the start, but she does indeed need more work. Again, part of the reason I most certainly do not want the two to get together immediately or anything. More like slowly develop them and perhaps have them get together sometime after Miko wins the next election.
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Old 2020-10-29, 12:03   Link #3055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I can't get enough of Miko teasing Miyuki. She feels like a completely different character when she's with him, she should show that side of her to Ishigami.

I wonder how Kaguya would react seeing them act like this.
Yeah, both of them kinda too close....At this rate, if Miko really ended up as Miyuki's mistress in the future, I won't be surprised by it.
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Old 2020-10-29, 12:42   Link #3056
WingedAccelerator
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
All that said, I've looked back a bit and I will admit that Miko still has a ways to go in terms of growth. She's definitely better now than she was at the start, but she does indeed need more work. Again, part of the reason I most certainly do not want the two to get together immediately or anything. More like slowly develop them and perhaps have them get together sometime after Miko wins the next election.
The issue is her timing. Until it was not a secret anymore that Ishigami guns for Tsubame, her usual behaviour was more or less the same. Of course Ishigami won't notice her if he is settled on his quest to get Tsubame. A sudden 180° turn in her behaviour would be just as much off-putting as their usual bickerings. She may have spent too much time on enforcing the rules for Ishigami to just generally care about her as a woman. Granted the excuse 133 chapters ago was that "she has a grudge against him". Although he discarded Kaguya due to social status and I would say the quest for Tsubame was also heavily infavorable to him regarding that. But the whole setup was comedic with the shoujo manga, so it should be taken with massive grain of salt.

Ishigami is also completely oblivious to anything Iino says and does that could have a hidden romantic meaning and Aka does this on purpose to stall the pairing. Iino got obtuse to a point where Ishigami just has to come in and "save her" occassionally like her desired knight. He also fits her type when it comes to looks. Meanwhile Ishigami is not even thinking of how his actions could have earned him Iino points. This combination is probably the most clichéd aspect of these type of scenarios, which I despise.
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Old 2020-10-29, 13:42   Link #3057
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
The issue is her timing. Until it was not a secret anymore that Ishigami guns for Tsubame, her usual behaviour was more or less the same. Of course Ishigami won't notice her if he is settled on his quest to get Tsubame. A sudden 180° turn in her behaviour would be just as much off-putting as their usual bickerings. She may have spent too much time on enforcing the rules for Ishigami to just generally care about her as a woman. Granted the excuse 133 chapters ago was that "she has a grudge against him". Although he discarded Kaguya due to social status and I would say the quest for Tsubame was also heavily infavorable to him regarding that. But the whole setup was comedic with the shoujo manga, so it should be taken with massive grain of salt.

Ishigami is also completely oblivious to anything Iino says and does that could have a hidden romantic meaning and Aka does this on purpose to stall the pairing. Iino got obtuse to a point where Ishigami just has to come in and "save her" occassionally like her desired knight. He also fits her type when it comes to looks. Meanwhile Ishigami is not even thinking of how his actions could have earned him Iino points. This combination is probably the most clichéd aspect of these type of scenarios, which I despise.
OK, now I see what you were talking about "133 chapters ago". I honestly hadn't read that in forever and it barely registered with me, so no, I most certainly have not been "clinging desperately" to it. If anything I've put more focus on the things that'd happened well after that, well after.

Ultimately, I feel like we're just too far off from one another. Each of us is putting significance on things that the other dismisses as pointless, completely forgets, or considers to be contradicted/ended by later scenarios. As a result, each of us sees the other as posting WOT headcanon with little to no basis in the content. For instance, you seem to see Miko's clumsy moments as random inserts where she's forced into trouble and needs saving, while I see it as a natural part of her character which was set up quite some time ago. And while Ishigami may look like Miko's favorite idol, it's been pretty clear from the start that this hasn't had that much impact on her. Just because he has the looks doesn't make her like him, if anything as I recall she was put off by the realization. It's his character, and his actions, that made her fall for him.

But anyway, our differences clearly go deep. While you hate them, honestly I rarely have a problem with cliches; I even really like a lot of them. It's just a matter of how they're executed. If there's something I can find to like in it, then I'll like it even if it's "been done a thousand times". As such, even if this does fit a "cliche" you hate I'll probably still love it. That said, Aka is a good author, so given a chance you might find that, just like Ishigami in that chapter you pointed me to, he may just manage to make you love what you so despise. Hard to say, but even cliche can be beautiful if it's done well. And since Aka seems to have a skill at long-run romances, we'll probably have a good bit of time to let it grow or shrink on us.
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Old 2020-10-29, 14:05   Link #3058
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
The issue is her timing. Until it was not a secret anymore that Ishigami guns for Tsubame, her usual behaviour was more or less the same. Of course Ishigami won't notice her if he is settled on his quest to get Tsubame. A sudden 180° turn in her behaviour would be just as much off-putting as their usual bickerings. She may have spent too much time on enforcing the rules for Ishigami to just generally care about her as a woman. Granted the excuse 133 chapters ago was that "she has a grudge against him". Although he discarded Kaguya due to social status and I would say the quest for Tsubame was also heavily infavorable to him regarding that. But the whole setup was comedic with the shoujo manga, so it should be taken with massive grain of salt.

Ishigami is also completely oblivious to anything Iino says and does that could have a hidden romantic meaning and Aka does this on purpose to stall the pairing. Iino got obtuse to a point where Ishigami just has to come in and "save her" occassionally like her desired knight. He also fits her type when it comes to looks. Meanwhile Ishigami is not even thinking of how his actions could have earned him Iino points. This combination is probably the most clichéd aspect of these type of scenarios, which I despise.
Until recently, Ishigami had plenty of issues with self-esteem, so unlike most harem protagonists he does have real reasons why he would never expect anyone to be interested in him.
Remember he didn't expect to get any Valentine's chocolate.

Even with Tsubame, he could say that he had to work for it, therefore anyone else that he hasn't put in effort to appeal couldn't possibly like him.
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Old 2020-11-02, 11:41   Link #3059
Ichinotachi
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Oh god Miyuki what have you done.

Spoiler for new ch:
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Old 2020-11-02, 15:57   Link #3060
James Rye
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Wow..... I'd call the cops on him and a therapist for myself if I were in her shoes. XD
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