Nymphet [Kodomo no Jikan]

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I sense denial :P

I was thinking the same thing as KaneDragon. Since this series was never about pedo's getting their way. Atleast this series would in my eyes fail if they actually did get together. :| Since it would go against anything that it stands for.

[HayashiTakara]

I have no idea what the series is suppose to stand for. All we have is an 8(?) year old girl who is mature beyond her years, and is constantly trying to seduce her teacher. While the teacher is trying to convince himself that he isn't falling for her, and is completely unaware of how he's feeling. What will come of it? who knows, but its definately going to be interesting to find out.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I have no idea what the series is suppose to stand for. All we have is an 8(?) year old girl who is mature beyond her years, and is constantly trying to seduce her teacher. While the teacher is trying to convince himself that he isn't falling for her, and is completely unaware of how he's feeling. What will come of it? who knows, but its definately going to be interesting to find out.

I believe the series has been repeating the same theme over and over. You that kids are people to and they feel loneness, hurt, pain, and heartbreak like anyone else which dose effect the way they turn out as they grow. Look at backgrounds of Mimi, Kuro, Reiji, and Rin herself those right there should tell you a lot about series stands for.

@jigenbakuda

I too have always found it funny how people look down on this series because of it's content but you know whats funnier. Had this story taken place in say a high school setting and not a grade school I believe it wouldn't have been has popular and well known as it is now.

Think about it if was just another generic high school Comedy/Romance do you think people would even give it a second glance. Remember there is no such thing as bad possibility and I believe all the negativity only made people want to read it more.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by GammaRed

Untill Rin leaves him, he can not move on and mature in to a healthy adult. The simple fact that he is trying to recreate Rin's mother Aki, shows that he is stuck in a mental loop.

He needs to lose everything befor he can begin to live again. Unfortainly, no one can see this, and with Rin thinking that she has to stay with him, she is only going to make the problem worse.

Reiji has always had something to keep him afloat, something to hang on to, someone to suport him. He needs to let go of these things, and learn to swim himself. I am sure that once he learns this. He could become a healthy adult.

I know its been a while since I have chimed in. but I have been lurking here. *waves to the other regs*

anyway, thats how I see it.

That is IF he learns before drowning.

He is actually the type who will hang himself if Rin leaves. I don't think it is that easy for him to recover. He needs mental help is all I can say...

[HayashiTakara]

Reiji needs to get hit by a car, better yet a MAC Truck. Maybe even a combination of a car hitting him into railroad tracks then a train grinding him down. Either way, he needs to die for the story to end up with a "happy" ending.

The thing about it is... if this was a HS setting... Rin would be of legal age of marriage... so... it won't be as interesting.

[Inanimated_object]

IMHO I think some people is having the wrong idea about Aoki's intentions. It's more like he's run-out options, if we recall in previous chapters, he contacted the respective authorities, no luck; then he wated Roku to have custody of Rin, also didn't work; then, what else was left? so that's when he began thinking Rin's "take me away" plan into consideration, he even imagined what would be like if she were living with him, and just like I wrote in my last post, he sees Rin more like a daugther than anything else; And to complicate matters even more, Rin has taken the resolved decision to stay with Reiji up to the point of marrying him, distressed by the ill news Aoki began using all the resources he had left but nothing he was saying seemed to be working, being at the end of the rope he brought up the very first essay she wrote in 3rd grade, even that wasn't enough to change her mind.As a personal guess I believe that way deep in her heart, Rin still "loves" Aoki, I say this because when she confessed about the time she almost pushed Hoin off the stairs, she kept quiet of the reason behind it (namely jealousy), I guess she has noticed that hoin has some "feelings" for Aoki, and therefore she didn't want him to figure that out.

Also, there is something I just realized regarding Aoki's thoughts about Rin's "warm tongue... and (it) having the sweet taste of....", IMO it had more of a symbolical meaning, in terms that, after that kiss, Rin did not just left him with a warn and sweet taste in his mouth, but by cutting the bonds between them, she also left him with a cold and sour feeling in his heart.

After this "broken" relationship, I'm starting to think this would be a perfect oportunity for the other characters to take a more active role in the story, because if it's not Aoki, then someone else has to save Rin, and soon.


To: jigenbakuda, thanks

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not sure he truly sees her as a daughter. Of course, I don't mean he sees her as a love interest, but, well, he knows they aren't related. That their relationship can be broken just like that.

Mostly, though, I think he sees her as a child needing to be saved. That he's mentioned that marriage thing is just a measure of his desperation.

As for the taste of milk... I think it's to emphasize that Rin is still just a child. Too young, to bear the kind of burden she does.

[jigenbakuda]

@darkwing
I must admit that there some truth in that. If it was in high school, there would of been no controversy, it would have been a shoujo-like GTO. I was one of the many that was introduced to this series by the 7seas incident. So without that I would not have been a fan. Without the little girls it would not have been controversial. So their age , no rin's age is directly related to me getting exposed to this series. I wanted to read it because I was like wtf at the pics that were floating around like last summer. After I read I was like, man this story is good. Also I thought rin was such a freak, but after reading you find that she is not, but anyways getting off topic. It is much different than I first thought.

@Inanimated_object
I hope you are right about the other characters getting some more attention. But of course I just want more shiro-chan x kuro-chan, so if I can get that I am happy. I think that if indeed other characters step in to help, this manga may go well past watashiya's 5-6 book limit. I really hope she makes this on a long story. But it does seem to be winding down, but she could pull a eiichiro oda and stretch the story out, but keep the ending she had in mind. The manga is getting pretty popular, plus another season of anime, it the least she can do. I know you want to spend my money watashiya! I know you do, write more story dammit!

[Lunar Archivist]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Since this series was never about pedo's getting their way. Atleast this series would in my eyes fail if they actually did get together. :| Since it would go against anything that it stands for.

I'm not sure I completely agree with that statement. This series falls so far outside of the stereotypical expectations of the lolicon genre that I'm not sure it ending with Aoki and Rin together would constitute a violation of what it stands for, mainly because this series has one thing that traditional lolicon has always lacked: love.

By and large, the lolicon genre is pretty formulaic. The male protagonist has a thinly veiled lust for underage girls. Suddenly, through sheer chance, he is presented with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to realize his depraved fantasy. Following emotional manipulation of his victim, he forces himself upon her sexually. After violating her, the stereotypically misguided "falling in love with the rapist" cliche comes into play, and the child suddenly becomes a willing, eager participant in future debauchery. Cue end credits.

Thus far, "Kodomo no Jikan" has pretty much subverted every one of these plot points or turned them on their heads. The male protagonist has no interest in underage girls (to start out with anyway). The emotional manipulations and sexual advances were made by the child and failed. The aggressor then tries to win the heart of the former would-be victim fairly and succeeds in her own way.

Traditional lolicon is little more that a male adult realizing his warped pedophilic sexual fantasy through emotional and physical domination of a child. It's just a power trip and there's no healthy emotional bond or love involved for either party. While I'd hardly call Aoki and Rin's relationship completely healthy, they do genuinely care for each other's well-being, and I think that last part is why I want the relationship between them to succeed.

The Lunar Archivist

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist

I'm not sure I completely agree with that statement. This series falls so far outside of the stereotypical expectations of the lolicon genre that I'm not sure it ending with Aoki and Rin together would constitute a violation of what it stands for, mainly because this series has one thing that traditional lolicon has always lacked: love.

By and large, the lolicon genre is pretty formulaic. The male protagonist has a thinly veiled lust for underage girls. Suddenly, through sheer chance, he is presented with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to realize his depraved fantasy. Following emotional manipulation of his victim, he forces himself upon her sexually. After violating her, the stereotypically misguided "falling in love with the rapist" cliche comes into play, and the child suddenly becomes a willing, eager participant in future debauchery. Cue end credits.

Thus far, "Kodomo no Jikan" has pretty much subverted every one of these plot points or turned them on their heads. The male protagonist has no interest in underage girls (to start out with anyway). The emotional manipulations and sexual advances were made by the child and failed. The aggressor then tries to win the heart of the former would-be victim fairly and succeeds in her own way.

Traditional lolicon is little more that a male adult realizing his warped pedophilic sexual fantasy through emotional and physical domination of a child. It's just a power trip and there's no healthy emotional bond or love involved for either party. While I'd hardly call Aoki and Rin's relationship completely healthy, they do genuinely care for each other's well-being, and I think that last part is why I want the relationship between them to succeed.

The Lunar Archivist

I haven't really read a lot of lolicon so forgive my ignorence to some extend. xD But in my defence I always got the feeling that instead of the so called love makes everything kind a thing. This was going for the more realistic approach that there actually something like fatherly love existed in manga and that teachers actually have the integrity of teacher. Still I'm still really sceptic since human are fickle beings and all I really don't believe in an happily ever after at that age. Though If they give a timeskip where everything is alright I can rest well I guess. Kinda like the manga Miriam.

[Lunar Archivist]

*laughs* I'm no expert either. I've only seen a handful of lolicon titles myself, but it doesn't take much to see a general trend emerging.

Oh, and no need to defend yourself. I was simply stating an opinion about the series, not a fact. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic of a pedo at heart. Heh heh.

The Lunar Archivist

[sumowow]

Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist

*laughs* I'm no expert either. I've only seen a handful of lolicon titles myself, but it doesn't take much to see a general trend emerging.

Oh, and no need to defend yourself. I was simply stating an opinion about the series, not a fact. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic of a pedo at heart. Heh heh.

The Lunar Archivist

Well isn't everyone who reads this a "Little" pedo?

There is one other lolicon title i want to read, i haven't proven it's a lolicon title yet but i am hoping it is. Mon Seoul also looks like a good read since the girl is just about rin's age.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by sumowow

There is one other lolicon title i want to read, i haven't proven it's a lolicon title yet but i am hoping it is. Mon Seoul also looks like a good read since the girl is just about rin's age.

Mon Seoul is KnJ but with a twist.

Spoiler for Spoiler for main storyline for Mon Seoul:

The girl lives with her dysfunctional family in which the father is divorced and out of job, the elder brother (an uni student too) of the girl is the sole breadwinner has a male friend in which the girl is also befriend (and interested in) with.

The girl thought that if everyone can think of her as less of a child, she can help the family out, so she seduce the male friend into bed on her 10th birthday in hope that she can get the male friend "into the family"

Things didn't turn too well for her. The family is still dysfunctional, the friendship between the 2 guys is broken up and everybody still think of her as a child.

Epilogue of the manga has the girl celebrating her 16th birthday and she seeking out the friend and asking for forgiveness and whether they still can get back together. The friend said no. He confess after she left that he wanted too, but he can't because he cannot forgive himself.

[Inanimated_object]

I haven't really read a lot of lolicon....

And you shouldn't.... well at least not the type of genre described in The Lunar Archivist's post, (BTW it's called hentai Lolicon or H-lolicon*) it might corrupt your mind .

A little word of advice, if you're going to hunt down more related titles, make sure to read the descriptions and genre type carefully, you wouldn't want end up finding "suprises" while reading their contents, as some sites and/or forums tend to offer both.

* As a side note, the letter "H" when pronounced, sounds like the japanese word "ecchi", literally "perv" in english. (read more here).

[jigenbakuda]

I would just like to see other people's comments on a conversation I am having on another forum. Please comment!

Originally Posted by jigenbakuda on another forum

Before I start, this is the most important thing in this post I am about to make. The above quote is 100% correct.


Now on to the discussion.
1) A young child having inappropriate urges and trying to make fun of or trap her adult teacher.

When did you first have sexual urges? 16, 17? I am willing to bet younger than that. I would say, to be safe 6th grade is when you started having urges. So to have urges in 3rd grade is at most a small exaggeration. And there has never ever been anything wrong with a younger person loving and of-age person. It is only a problem when the reverse happens. And aoki (the teacher) does not want her advances, or enjoy them. But anyways to me inappropriate means wrong, or improper. So when are sexual urges okay? Like what age is it okay to want to have sex with someone? The only thing that is different about rin (the girl) is that she uses outlandish things to accomplish her goals.But there is nothing even remotely strange about a grade school girl liking her teacher, he is grown and has power over the room, what wrong with liking a guy like that? Once again the only thing that could be said that is wrong is the age, and since I am not a girl I can not comment on how young I started having urges, and even still at most it is a 3-4 year exaggeration. I have seen manga exaggerate much more than that.

2) The TV show was censored, but the manga is more graphic.

I kinda take that back, I forgot about the ova, which was not censored, that was just about as graphic as the manga. Anyways the tv show censored stuff that did not needed to be censored. It is not like they showed nipples (they might have shown an outline of usa-chan's breast after she fell in a puddle, but that was the worst...) or they showed blood, or they even suggest sex (like a shadow scene). Everything that was in that anime, could have been shown. I am not trying to suggest that it was pg, but it certainly was not worth a censor, and that includes the loli-fan service. Oh yea naruto 's manga is more graphic than its anime, so is nabari no ou. I am not sure about claymore, did they show everything in the claymore anime that they did in the manga? In general, most anime are less graphic than their manga counterparts. Oh quick question was rosario to vampire's manga so full of fanservice? I saw that anime, it was like, wow it is just fan service. I think that anime might be more graphic than it's manga...

3) Cousins having sex.


The reason that was posted was because of america's culture. In many places in the world marring cousins is not considered taboo. The main thing that people talk about it is deformed children or something of that nature. I believe that the only time that there is a significant increase in deformities is when the child comes from a sibling x sibling or parent x child. But cousins are fine. Japan is one of those places where being with a cousin is not a big deal. In america its only cool if they are 2 or 3 times removed (the cousins). But this is not so in japan. In a lot of places most of the available mates were cousins, this was very true in old days, so we are all sprung from cousin sex, in a sense. So the only reason this is a negative is because you are of american culture.

4) The mangaka decided to call it 'Nymphet'.
lol, can't argue this one.


As was stated before, only the beginning has the stuff that everyone is talking about. I don't think the 4 reasons above are good reasons to not read or dislike a story. Especially when it has so little to do with the story. We keep saying, the story is great, the story is good. Other continually say the fan-service is loli. The 2 things are not related. The fan-service has nothing to do with the story. We are telling you the story is good, that is why you should read it. We are not denying the fan service. It is there, it is to suck lolicons in, but the story is not based on loli. The story is based on win, it is pure win. In fact the lolis that first started reading it are still reading it, even thought the fan-service is not there, why? Because the story is awesome.

[Vexx]

1) The story is about a girl with psychological issues with a sexual thread and the people who are TRYING TO HELP HER.
Such "evil" O.o

2) Simply saying the "manga is more graphic" is misleading. It has no more nudity than any other manga --- newsflash: much of the freaking planet does not have this mass of baggage about nudity that the USA and a few hyper-religious countries do. So this is a non-issue.

3) I've explained this so many times I should have a macro.

IT IS LEGAL TO MARRY COUSINS IN OVER HALF THE UNITED STATES. So, when people rant and rave about it --- its simple, they're morons. The stigma against first cousin marriage in the US derives from the Industrial Age start when many people began moving to the city from the country where first cousin marriage was and is very typical (3 girls within 40 miles? Guess what your choice is). You were "hick" to the city people if you married your cousin. First cousin marriage is STILL completely normal in most of the world. Genetically, you're more likely to do damage by smoking or being in the sun too much.
So, this is a non-issue except for misinformed portions of US youth it seems.

4) Look up "nymphet" in the dictionary. Look up its original Greek mythological meaning. That's the emphasis the mangaka was giving -- she can't help it if modern native-speaking idiots misuse the word.

Basically... you're fighting uninformed/misinformed idiocy when you try to discuss this series with some people.

[CaptGloval]

I just want to say:

While the honor of finally making me sign-up to AS doesn't belong to KnJ, finding that most posters here have sensible commentary for this infamous manga is one of the reasons that made me conclude that spending online time in here is worthwhile. Keep up the good work

...And yeah, I like this loli story with a heart. Gah, I'm such a sucker for drama

[Mykas]

trying to imply that this manga isn't offensive on its face is silly, most people won't take, or don't have, the time to dig into a ton of new manga. so if it has something that bothers them on the face they will just be offended and put it away. yes there is a good story underneath, one that i have for a long time contested is more about aoki and his life than the little girl who is just a facet of the story. but expecting people to dig into something before they criticize it isn't living in the real world. people criticize everything from religion and politics to cars and pizza as well as manga with little or no information on the subject and i bet everyone here is guilty of it. ever eat a hamburger somewhere and decide you hated the taste and were never coming back because of one bite. how about watch the first few moments of a tv show and decide you were moving on because it wasn't for you, or maybe you met a person and didn't like them right away. first impressions matter and the fact is that this manga can easily give a bad first impression it does have suggestive themes and objectionable immages.
BTW i do love the story and the manga i just thought calling someone an idiot for not liking something you like was a little silly.

[Vexx]

Define "offensive" objectively

I guess I'm here in the real world to slap people who comment or judge using little or no information. Yes, many people do what you describe --- and I assert they're not using their critical thinking skills or passing much of a test for being taken seriously. I see no reason to "give them a pass". I certainly don't permit such nonsense of illogic when I'm tutoring or teaching.

It has little to do with whether I like the story or not -- it has to do with their reasoning skills and failure to investigate that lead them to that viewpoint. I've defended works that I personally thought were distasteful or worthless so it also has to do with such people actively trying to censor or block the story so that other people can not make their own decisions.
Example: I find the tale of James Joyce's Ulysses enormously boring and a bit annoying (I don't like it) -- but it is a literary classic that should be read by students so they can form their own opinions. There was a huge fight over its publishing and many efforts to censor or eliminate it, mostly by people who had not actually read the book.

KnJ is a little piece of work that was crushed and dropped before publication in response to a mass of people manipulated by a few persons who consciously or stupidly took a few manga frames out of context. I see no reason to give such bookburning ideology a pass.

[Mef]

Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist

By and large, the lolicon genre is pretty formulaic. The male protagonist has a thinly veiled lust for underage girls. Suddenly, through sheer chance, he is presented with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to realize his depraved fantasy. Following emotional manipulation of his victim, he forces himself upon her sexually. After violating her, the stereotypically misguided "falling in love with the rapist" cliche comes into play, and the child suddenly becomes a willing, eager participant in future debauchery. Cue end credits.

No, most of the time , the male protagonist doesnt manipulate or violate the loli. In most H-lolicon manga the lolis like being fucked , so it's not "falling in love with the rapist" afterwards as they like it anyway. The child is always willing in most of the H-lolicon manga.
Of course there are different kinds, there are also rape manga of course.

And unfortunately,there very very few H-lolicon manga with a good story or good art (for my taste ).


Btw, I stopped reading the manga after the last ep of KnJ anime season 1 , as it somehow seemed to follow this bad Reji story (well I dont know how it turned out obviously) , just to mention something on-topic.