[Manga] Maybe Akatsuki Leader is....

[Liberta Modifica]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Okay, something bothers me about the whole Yondaime=Akatsuki leader theory. I can accept Yondaime possibly finding a way to cheat death, but If Yondaime was the leader, Orochimaru would know since he was a former member. Why wouldn't he inform anyone from Konoha? Especially the 3rd since it would obviously break Sandaime's heart if he knew the 4th had turned to evil. Oro would relish that. Also, he has no reason to withold such information, especially since he wants Konoha to engage Akatsuki. If they knew Yondaime was involved they would do so much sooner

why would he bother giving information to konoha?...he did leave his country and started a new one, there's no point in saying so...

and Oro didn't want konoha to engage akatsuki...the reason that konoha engaged akatsuki is when they were asked to help sand rescue Gaara from them...

Originally Posted by tramadrama

How do you think the chick will come in? Do you think she will pop up alongside Zetsu or will we get introduced to her at the same time as the "leader?" If she is a loner also, then it's possible it may be someone we know like Rin that will come and interviene and it would be so much of a shock to the characters that know her. It seems so much cooler than a chick that we don't know popping up out the blue.

i think she will be paired up to the leader.....if she was paired up with Zetsu then we would have seen here when Zetsu first showed up in the anime(since they all go on pairs)and I guess that Zetsu's partner before was Oro but since Oro left the organization then Zetsu was just by himself....

i think it would be a shocker if Rin was to be the girl....If it is true that Yondaime is the leader.....and Rin would be the girl...and Obito is Tobi.....what a heartbreaker for Kakashi....but I think Kishi is planning to introduce to us unknown shinobis for the leader and the girl....

[astayanax]

Evil is only in the eye of the beholder anyway. Killing jinchuuriki could be seen as a good thing to some people, but then there's others that would argue that since the person being killed is also human, yada yada yada. But when Kakuzu's(?) character surfaced, I changed my mind. Deidara didn't seem so bad and neither does Tobi or Sasori, but Kakuzu(?) is something different.

Why is he different? He is a bounty hunter and he is paired with a monk. If anything, these are the two most 'good' Akatsuki members we have seen so far.

The only evil person we have seen so far was Orochimaru; and then to a slightly lesser extent Sasori. Orochimaru is no longer in Akatsuki and Sasori is dead, by showing a face of heart and decided to let himself get kill rather than killing the old woman and Sakura.

The thing is that if people would willing give the demons to Akatsuki, they won't fight anymore, but these countries are determined to keep and use those demonic powers at all costs; so Akatsuki is forced to take them on.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by astaynax

Why is he different? He is a bounty hunter and he is paired with a monk. If anything, these are the two most 'good' Akatsuki members we have seen so far.

The only evil person we have seen so far was Orochimaru; and then to a slightly lesser extent Sasori. Orochimaru is no longer in Akatsuki and Sasori is dead, by showing a face of heart and decided to let himself get kill rather than killing the old woman and Sakura.

The thing is that if people would willing give the demons to Akatsuki, they won't fight anymore, but these countries are determined to keep and use those demonic powers at all costs; so Akatsuki is forced to take them on.

I still have trouble seeing how you think that Akatsuki is anything less than completely evil. I think most of them make Orochimaru look wholesome by comparison. Many of the crimes the commit have nothing to do with getting the bijuu. Still, I'll make it clear just how evil they are.

Itachi: murdered nearly his entire clan; beats and tortures his little brother whenever they meet

Kisame: former member of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist, an infamous criminal organization; attempted assasination on his country's fedual lord

Zetsu: cannibal

Kakuzu: stated that he values money above all else; killed several of his partners; attacked and slaughtered a temple of monks

Hidan: worships a god that demands followers to slaughter human lives

Deidara: attempted genocide on the Country of Sand

Sasori: turned his own parents into puppets; murdered his own country's Kazekage; wiped out an entire country; attempted to kill his own grandmother with no remorse (The fact that he 'let' himself be killed is not necessarily a change of heart. It just shows that he had a possible deeply hidden desire to die)

Tobi is the only member I've seen so far who may not be evil. He seems more childlike then anything, but even children can be cruel. We don't know anything about the unknown member or the leader yet. But I can't really picture them being less evil than the other members. If they are, I can't imagine why they would seek the aid of S-rank sociopaths to accomplish their goals

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

That blue haired kunoichi is Yondaime's girlfriend. Notice how she looks up to him.

Explain....honestly most of your posts are pissing me (perhaps others aswell) off.

- First of all the 4th is DEAD.
- WE DONT KNOW JACK ABOUT THE OTHER AKATSUKI MEMBER

Personal Question to you:

- when a girl at the street is watching at you for only a split second...do you consider that she was flirting? Or likes you?

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by astayanax

Why is he [Kakuzu] different?

Kyo explained Kakuzu for me, the fact that the dude just kills to relieve some stress.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyo

I still have trouble seeing how you think that Akatsuki is anything less than completely evil. I think most of them make Orochimaru look wholesome by comparison. Many of the crimes the commit have nothing to do with getting the bijuu. Still, I'll make it clear just how evil they are.

Itachi: murdered nearly his entire clan; beats and tortures his little brother whenever they meet

Kisame: former member of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist, an infamous criminal organization; attempted assasination on his country's fedual lord

Zetsu: cannibal

Kakuzu: stated that he values money above all else; killed several of his partners; attacked and slaughtered a temple of monks

Hidan: worships a god that demands followers to slaughter human lives

Deidara: attempted genocide on the Country of Sand

Sasori: turned his own parents into puppets; murdered his own country's Kazekage; wiped out an entire country; attempted to kill his own grandmother with no remorse (The fact that he 'let' himself be killed is not necessarily a change of heart. It just shows that he had a possible deeply hidden desire to die)

Tobi is the only member I've seen so far who may not be evil. He seems more childlike then anything, but even children can be cruel. We don't know anything about the unknown member or the leader yet. But I can't really picture them being less evil than the other members. If they are, I can't imagine why they would seek the aid of S-rank sociopaths to accomplish their goals

I know this wasn't referred to me, but anyway, here's some things.

Itachi - I know some people that torture their little brother whenever they meet. Grant it, it's a little over the top...way over the top...but still, it's sibling rivalry, nutcase style.

Kisame - I live in the U.S. so fill in the blanks.

Zetsu - This dude is not human. That may be part of his species' diet.

Kakuzu - absoulety right about that

Hidan - Just because a person may worship weird gods, doesn't mean that their personality is screwed up.

Deidara - Is the sand really all that great of a country? It's a craphole compared to Konoha with craphole people that was willing to sell out Gaara. Deidara would have saved them millions in renovation.

Sasori - The Sasori Chiyo knew was dead long before she fought him in the end. Yeah, Sasori had some parent issues, but Sasori got lost in the issue of immortality, when you actually think about it. In some sick twisted way, do you think Sasori feared death and the thought of losing his parents drove him to the point of "making them immortal?"

Tobi - A little too Narutoish.

So, I mean, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Kakuzu is evil, true. Oro is evil also. Although some shinobis have learned, especially through Naruto, that ninjas aren't tools, doesn't mean that they all have. Some ninjas just continue being tools (in both context of the word).

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

Kyo
Hidan - Just because a person may worship weird gods, doesn't mean that their personality is screwed up, there is such thing as a nice atheist. That's an issue in the afterlife they just have to deal with. I wouldn't invite them to dinner either, on a sidenote I wouldn't even invite Hidan come to think about it or Zetsu. We don't cook what he eats. Anyway, back on topic.
=

I find this offensive, im an atheist, and i dont bash on christians beliefs. You should use a different example, and keep your prejudices to yourself.

There's a huge difference in not believing in a god, and believing in one that makes you kill people.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Tramadrama, at this point I really suspect that you are just having a bit of fun by defending Akatsuki, but for the sake of agrument I will offer rebuttal one more time:

Itachi - Many people pick on their younger siblings true, but breaking their wrist, pimp slapping them into a wall and then proceeding to torture them with images of their family being murdered goes a bit beyond 'sibling rivalry' hmm?

Kisame - Not sure what you meant by this statement. political commentary?

Zetsu - Well then, you can use that same excuse for Orochimaru because he's clearly not human in the normal sense. So I guess he's not evil, the things he does are just part of his snake-like nature.

Kakuzu - glad you agree.

Hidan - I agree atheists can be decent people. However, there is no such thing as a nice serial murderer.

Deidara - If Deidara had succeeded, there'd be nobody around to renovate the Sand village.

Sasori - Maybe you're right. Let's say desercrating his parent's bodies by turning them into battle puppets was just a misguided expression of his love for them. How do you explain the other heinous crimes I mentioned?

Tobi - He does act like Naruto, but that doesn't mean he's good. Under different circumstances, Naruto might have become a criminal. Luckily, he's had several positive influences in his life.

Akatsuki members aren't tools, they don't blindly follow orders like Haku did. Each one seen so far has his own agendas in mind (even if they have yet to be revealed). Face it bud. Anyway you look at it, Akatsuki is evil. Period. Still, it's been entertaining to see your view of them.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Dauthi

I find this offensive, im an atheist, and i dont bash on christians beliefs. You should use a different example, and keep your prejudices to yourself.

There's a huge difference in not believing in a god, and believing in one that makes you kill people.

Dude/Dudette, I don't think not inviting you over to dinner is bashing on your beliefs. If I bashed on your beliefs, then I wouldn't have a nice thing to say at all. The point I was trying to make is that (to spell it out), a person's religion doesn't define a person all the time. Sometimes the beliefs of a person doesn't even have to be parallel to their religion.

But besides all of that, I do apologize that I offended you.

Kyo, I was arguing just to be arguing to show you that someone's twisted ideals about certain things can make a difference on who's good or who's evil. Society sets the standards on that issue anyway and it's we who follow society's guidelines.

[Snubben_Pierre]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

The Akatsuki are not "going against the world."

They hunt the jinchuuriki, for all we know they are doing the world a favor.

so if they are doing the world a favor why are they a underground organisation do evil things like killing loads of people?? how is that doing any1 a favor??

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Explain....honestly most of your posts are pissing me (perhaps others aswell) off.

- First of all the 4th is DEAD.
- WE DONT KNOW JACK ABOUT THE OTHER AKATSUKI MEMBER

Personal Question to you:

- when a girl at the street is watching at you for only a split second...do you consider that she was flirting? Or likes you?

im guessing 50% of the naruto part of this forum is getting pissed by him, 40% has learnt to ignore him and 10% are yondaime fanboys that cant let him R.I.P

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snubben_Pierre

so if they are doing the world a favor why are they a underground organisation do evil things like killing loads of people?? how is that doing any1 a favor??

Akatsuki in the real world is like a gang or triad gang. practically without the demons in the naruto world, like the kyuubi, didn't exist, their existance wouldn't be needed just only to show their superiority. one can say that Akatsuki is doing the naruto villages a favor of removing their "demons".

Originally Posted by Snubben_Pierre

im guessing 50% of the naruto part of this forum is getting pissed by him, 40% has learnt to ignore him and 10% are yondaime fanboys just like him..

Hey imma yondaime fanboy and i'm kinda offended by you that you categorize me and yellow flash in the same group. it's the fact that he says stupid shit that everyone get's pist at him.

[Snubben_Pierre]

Originally Posted by a03

Akatsuki in the real world is like a gang or triad gang. practically without the demons in the naruto world, like the kyuubi, didn't exist, their existance wouldn't be needed just only to show their superiority. one can say that Akatsuki is doing the naruto villages a favor of removing their "demons".

doesnt seem like the villages want their demons removed so they are evil ^^. as various real life gangs are..

Originally Posted by a03

Hey imma yondaime fanboy and i'm kinda offended by you that you categorize me and yellow flash in the same group. it's the fact that he says stupid shit that everyone get's pist at him.

Ohh im sorry, i changed the statement to "yondaime fanboys who cant let him R.I.P"... with that i mean people that bring up stupid theories about him just because they want him to be alive..

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

Dude/Dudette, I don't think not inviting you over to dinner is bashing on your beliefs. If I bashed on your beliefs, then I wouldn't have a nice thing to say at all. The point I was trying to make is that (to spell it out), a person's religion doesn't define a person all the time. Sometimes the beliefs of a person doesn't even have to be parallel to their religion.

But besides all of that, I do apologize that I offended you, but I'm not removing it. The mods will have to do that.

Its outright showing your dislike of a group of people for what they believe. Why you dont see it is disturbing. Lets substitute atheist for a african americans, or black people in general.

"i wouldnt invite a black person over for dinner" or "there is such thing as a nice black person". Its the same thing, its a slap in the face.

[Rurik]

People, please don't continue wiht this before it gets out of hand...Dauthi, tramadama was just trying to make a point, he already apologize about the offense, it was not his intention.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Dauthi

Its outright showing your dislike of a group of people for what they believe. Why you dont see it is disturbing. Lets substitute atheist for a african americans, or black people in general.

"i wouldnt invite a black person over for dinner" or "there is such thing as a nice black person". Its the same thing, its a slap in the face.

I PMed you. I removed those comments. I guess PC is the way to be.

[s-class uchiha]

Whoa what happened here?

I also think Kisame graduated like Zabuza... killing off his fellow classmates.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

- WE DONT KNOW JACK ABOUT THE OTHER AKATSUKI MEMBER

Right, but he did draw him/her looking up at the leader that could be hinting something I mean Tobi was looking at Itachi.

Things can be there for reasons ^^.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Blaine

Except that yondaime is dead.

Kishimoto is afraid of Yondaime, that's why he declared him dead in the first chapter.

But who knows...? Yondaime could have escaped and create the Akatsuki.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Kishimoto is afraid of Yondaime, that's why he declared him dead in the first chapter.

But who knows...? Yondaime could have escaped and create the Akatsuki.

How would Kishimoto fair at living up to the legend that he himself created? I mean, you have this guy [Yondaime] and he's given praise all around from the Hokage, Jonin (including the Sannin), Chunnin, neighboring countries (like how the that guy knew him as Yellow Flash in the Kakashi Gaiden), amongst others. Then, on top of that, Yondaime's actions and legacy can be almost seen per arc.

All of this is of course, Kishimoto's doing. So to repeat my question, how would he live up to the legend? He doesn't exactly have to please the fans, however, it helps and it increases sales and popularity. I wouldn't exactly say that Kishimoto was afraid and that's why he declared him dead in the first chapter. I think (hope) you are kidding, but Kishimoto may be afraid now, up to this point.

Look at the tease with the Gaiden; I know it was Kakashi's Gaiden, but damn, he didn't exactly have to come back to Part II of Naruto immediately, especially how Part II is fairing now. In my opinion, Part II isn't living up yet to Part I, but anyway, why not have a Yondaime Gaiden covering the war that caused his death. If his intent isn't to divulge stuff that he wants to tell later, he can still do it in a way that leaves the imagination to do its job.

Sorry for being longwinded, but that particular comment reminded me of something I thought about right after the Kakashi Gaiden.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Kishimoto is afraid of Yondaime, that's why he declared him dead in the first chapter.

But who knows...? Yondaime could have escaped and create the Akatsuki.

I think Kishimoto has seen the Animesuki forums...and thought guys like Yellow Flash here should decrease in numbers...

Not even the 4th was able to do something which Naruto will master...probably shortly..

If you read the Gaiden...then you'll understand that the 4th was a good (perhaps pure) person...worth of the title: Yondaime Hokage...

He died glorious in a battle which saved Konoha...there is simply no way he is alive...and definetly not that he created akatsuki and wandered through the world.

[Blaine]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Kishimoto is afraid of Yondaime, that's why he declared him dead in the first chapter.

But who knows...? Yondaime could have escaped and create the Akatsuki.

That is just stupid, do you even know how dumb you sound.