Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai - Light Novel Discussion

[Somethindarker]

Kodaka is not anything if not consistent. Throughout the entire story he was never in love with any of the girls, lust does not count, and when he did end up liking someone he got rejected then got over it. He went out with Yukimura because he liked her but was never in love with her to him what was more important was having friends and I can understand his point of view I grew up surrounded by women having 1 blood sister, 2 step-sisters raised primarily by women so to me Kodaka's decision isn't that crazy if anything it shows that he has taste and sticks to his guns. Sure I didn't like the ending but only because it was anti-climactic not because of Kodaka's decision.

[mironicus]

The difference between Kodaka and all the other people is that they all make choices in their lives and have aims they want to achieve and that makes them change and move forward, while Kodaka avoids that (= fear of change). Even if he tells that he wants to change (latest chapter on Guhehe.net released today), these are just words. Rika tries to help him but you can't help someone to change if that person always avoided to make choices in his life or just gives up to fast the whole time.

To make friends is also an aim and if you don't make any choices and give up fast or don't even try then you can't have relationships with people you like.

And about the process of making friends:
The whole story over Kodaka met people and got invited to join the club, invited to go swimming, invited to go on shopping dates, invited to go a friends house and so on. All people around him constantly made attempts to befriend him.

And while Kodaka don't make any choices he (for example) never invites people to go on dates with HIM. Or did he ever invited someone to come to his place? Never! Maria visited him on her own two times. And Yozora was invited by Kobato and Kodaka said about that "You are Kobato's guest, not mine". And of course he never asked anyone to become his friend. Rika and Yukimura insisted to become his friend/girlfriend after a fight.

Therefore Kodaka only has friends as long he remains at one place and as long there are still people who have not given up on him, while he don't make any attempts to get closer to people himself (=fear of any change in his life). All the fun and happiness he can have in his life are restricted to places where he can meet many people (school, college, job). Outside these places his life remains unchanged and boring. Just on his own he don't do anything.

Basically everything about his behavior can be explained with his fear of change. The way he lives his life only leads to an unhappy life.

Kodaka must be able to make choices in his life, following his own wishes and will, to be able to do what he really likes and not to give up on his own aims. Maybe he knows that because he told Sena "I love the way you live your life heads-on" during his confession to her. Sena is living a life like that, she is completely free from negative thinking about herself.

[tuckersister]

I missed a couple volumes. How is Yozora now? Last time I read she was shocked by Sena's confession.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I'm honestly not sure it's missing the point that far. If Kodaka had chosen a girlfriend at the end, almost all the arguments in this thread about the lack of character development for the protagonist would deflate. The main thing people have complained about in this thread is that the protagonist seems cowardly, and that he rejected the other heroines, got pressured into dating Yukimura, and then broke up with her (though it was limited to begin with) to reset the status quo with the club. The claimed issue is that at the end of the story he chose the "let's all just be friends" ending, which seems like not really choosing anything from a third-party point of view. They've rejected his moment of realization at the end about the value of the club and friendship, which was basically the moral of the story.

In other words, people are mad that our "beta" protagonist remained a "beta" protagonist all the way to the end, and didn't actually "grow up and make a real decision", which equals picking a girlfriend and not just the club. So yeah, in a roundabout way, what zerozeronine said is basically right, even if it's for slightly different reasons. If he had "manned up" and chosen to date Sena, for example, the reaction in this thread would have been entirely different.

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

That's not the points, which I meant is that Kodaka, who wants to keep the status quo should at least grow a mentality that makes others understand that he doesn't wants a relationship for the time being, however he takes the run away route, which is pretty inmature and irresponsible even for his age. It's not like the other girls won't concede to certain degree, they're not that desperate.

Isn't about choosing a girl but making them and the reader convey the reasons of his decision without making it feel like he was running away from them so he can fullfil a wish that won't last not even some months(high school was over in the last novel).

yeah my big problem is not about "choose a girl" but about kobaka was the only character in the serie in the end which not really "grow" and by grow i don't means choose a girl, but show really sights of he is changing like someone pointed which he basically was aways full passive, everytime he goes on a date or a girl come to his house never was him acting or was like his sister or the girls tryint to pull him, all his bad choices aways where because he never have courage to say "no", his "runaway behavious also is a big let down, if everytime he have to make a choice he opt for his own option of "literally run" like a coward then the show, was basically about a coward guy, doing nothing than mistakes and thanks to that mistakes the girls ended growing and he ended lagging behind then, while now almost every girl is able to make new friends or even date others peoples he still the same as the beginner the coward guy which will run at the first sight of "choices", if kodaka was the protagonist of ore no nouna(the absolute choices novel) he head could already exploded because he could never choose anything.

that is my problem is not just ship, but a bad narrative where if indeed the plot was about weird failing in grow then fine but when everyone else which is not kowardaka ending grow and he is the only one to not grow then the plot failed in that part, then the plot was about the girls grow over a looser.

the only thing i learned from this series is which indeed even in novels/anime/mangas sometimes the loose mc is really a looser and the really best ending for the girls is just get over him and have they lifes because a loose is a loose and he never grow and the girls are wasting they times with him.

this is how i see kodaka:
girl: kodaka let's be friends
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: lets' go on a date
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka today is hot
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka look my pants
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka let's date, be my boyfriend
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka you are a stupid
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka let's break
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: kodaka let's me put that vibrator into you
kodaka: yeah fine
girl: man i'm really tired go to hell and i never want see you again in front of me
kodaka: yeah fine

basically kodaka is the most one dimensional character i see in my life, when don't know the means of the world "no" he also is a professional runner.

[zerozeronine]

He's a 16 or 17 year old kid that had real friends for the 2nd time in his life,don't expect him to be a 25 year old that already experienced life.He did had some development in volumes 9 and 10,unless you ignored most of the story and just wanted to know who the end girl was

btw he dated Yukimura for a year right?That's development,unless you wanted him to date Sena or some other girl

[Somethindarker]

In my point of view everyone got what they wanted. The only real contenders at the end of the series was Sena and Rika since both still have chance with Kodaka in the epilogue. By the time Kodaka is in recalling his high school days he's still in his mid 20's so things can change that's the whole point of the epilogue. Like I've said before I didn't like the ending because it was anti-climactic I could've cared less who he ends up with they're all happy with their lives and to have lifelong friends.

[tuckersister]

I wonder if Yozora was able to pull herself back together so many things that has happened that she didn't expect.

I wonder how much do we know Kodaka's and Kobato's mom, Airi (other Kobato shares her same fetishes).

I didn't get to Volume 10 or 11. I don't what I missed.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

He's a 16 or 17 year old kid that had real friends for the 2nd time in his life,don't expect him to be a 25 year old that already experienced life.He did had some development in volumes 9 and 10,unless you ignored most of the story and just wanted to know who the end girl was

btw he dated Yukimura for a year right?That's development,unless you wanted him to date Sena or some other girl

and his date with her was almost nothing, that was one of the reasons she broke with him, because she saw with he accept her as girlfriend was more "in the heart of the moment" than he actually really want, they ended having a bad one year then she finally see which the best for then was broken.
to be fair i really get tired nearlly volume 8 of him, don't read all the volume 9 and 10 but for what i get after that he still almost the same as the beginner in comparation with the girls which grow much more than him.

if the problem was "age" then the girls also where supposed to be stationed as him since they also where around 16 and 17, really don't come with age, maybe his weird infanty trauma but age no... i his age most of the males which i know could not really did one third of the mistakes he did on this series.

again most of the troubles into this series don't really come from the girls but from him he was the big troublesome, instead of being the "one to fixe" he was the one doing damages all over the places.

no matter how peoples are trying to defend him, he really was a terrible mc in many ways.

i gonna say for me the best end for kodaka could be in the south pole alone dying of cold, this guy really was garbage and none of the girls deserved to suffer for a really pinacle of a looser one of the thingd which ruined this series was kodaka cowardice he was too far away redemption.

[Kuroageha]

Wait, what the hell, did you guys even read the epilogue?

Kodaka didn't want to break up, in fact he got to love Yukimura but she put him on a situation they would have to break because she knew that he wanted to spend time with his friends as well.

Also, he moved on from Rika, no feelings for her anymore, so by the end the only girls with a chance are his ex and Sena who is not giving up.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Wait, what the hell, did you guys even read the epilogue?

Kodaka didn't want to break up, in fact he got to love Yukimura but she put him on a situation they would have to break because she knew that he wanted to spend time with his friends as well.

Also, he moved on from Rika, no feelings for her anymore, so by the end the only girls with a chance are his ex and Sena who is not giving up.

From the spoilers I read it was alluded that him and Rika still have a chance I knew Sena hadn't given up yet neither has Kate.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Wait, what the hell, did you guys even read the epilogue?

Kodaka didn't want to break up, in fact he got to love Yukimura but she put him on a situation they would have to break because she knew that he wanted to spend time with his friends as well.

Also, he moved on from Rika, no feelings for her anymore, so by the end the only girls with a chance are his ex and Sena who is not giving up.

if him indeed loved her(he dont really loved he liked at best at last that is what i get) he could not accepted so easy the break and not be on that situation, that was the moment he could have true tried to show he finally grow and could step to have all he want but no.... kodaka is kodaka in the end.
that is his problem how he is terrible to stand with choices or decisions, he wanted her but also wanted friends and was scared which he can't have both then she see it and "for his sake" she break up(for me was more for her sake she diserve better things) and we get the generic ending in the epilogue where girls are still aimming to him even after all the trouble he did to then because in the end the looser kodaka must have a chance of love even if he is a fail as a person.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

if him indeed loved her(he dont really loved he liked at best at last that is what i get) he could not accepted so easy the break and not be on that situation, that was the moment he could have true tried to show he finally grow and could step to have all he want but no.... kodaka is kodaka in the end.

It's not like she's going away to a distant land or something. He doesn't have to go chase after the proverbial plane to stop her from leaving his life forever. But given that she was going to break up with him anyway, he created a situation where they could at least all stay together as friends, and rather than being sad at the inevitable end, she could channel anger at him instead. Anything can happen once they're out of high school; if it was meant to be, they can get back together again.

I really don't see how Kodaka "failed as a person" in any of this at all. I understand that people may not consider this sort of ending satisfying because it lacks some degree of finality, but him choosing to spend his last year of high school focusing on his friends (who include a bunch of girls who have obvious, stated crushes on him) is not failing at life at all.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's not like she's going away to a distant land or something. He doesn't have to go chase after the proverbial plane to stop her from leaving his life forever. But given that she was going to break up with him anyway, he created a situation where they could at least all stay together as friends, and rather than being sad at the inevitable end, she could channel anger at him instead. Anything can happen once they're out of high school; if it was meant to be, they can get back together again.

I really don't see how Kodaka "failed as a person" in any of this at all. I understand that people may not consider this sort of ending satisfying because it lacks some degree of finality, but him choosing to spend his last year of high school focusing on his friends (who include a bunch of girls who have obvious, stated crushes on him) is not failing at life at all.

True. Sure the ending was lackluster, in my opinion, but calling Kodaka a failure or a coward is just over the top I've said it before it took a lot of maturity and resolve to not be tempted by sex. When I was in high school I had a group of friends of mixed genders on the swim team when I found out a couple of my friends had crushes on me I opted to reject them in order to not cause any internal strife or drama. He wasn't in love with Yukimura nor, at the moment at least, did he have any desire to really date anyone seriously. He isn't some sex starved pervert thinking with his dick he's just a humble guy who prefers having friends over causing a rift between his friends which would ultimately lead to the club falling apart.

[tuckersister]

Can someone give a short summary of Vol 11? I'm too confused

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's not like she's going away to a distant land or something. He doesn't have to go chase after the proverbial plane to stop her from leaving his life forever. But given that she was going to break up with him anyway, he created a situation where they could at least all stay together as friends, and rather than being sad at the inevitable end, she could channel anger at him instead. Anything can happen once they're out of high school; if it was meant to be, they can get back together again.

I really don't see how Kodaka "failed as a person" in any of this at all. I understand that people may not consider this sort of ending satisfying because it lacks some degree of finality, but him choosing to spend his last year of high school focusing on his friends (who include a bunch of girls who have obvious, stated crushes on him) is not failing at life at all.

he never choose anything that is what looks like peoples are not seeying, he never made really any "real choice" based on what he really wanted, instead all he did was aways because of pressures he never did something because he true wanted, because he can't make choices by himself that is his big problem and failure.

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

True. Sure the ending was lackluster, in my opinion, but calling Kodaka a failure or a coward is just over the top I've said it before it took a lot of maturity and resolve to not be tempted by sex. When I was in high school I had a group of friends of mixed genders on the swim team when I found out a couple of my friends had crushes on me I opted to reject them in order to not cause any internal strife or drama. He wasn't in love with Yukimura nor, at the moment at least, did he have any desire to really date anyone seriously. He isn't some sex starved pervert thinking with his dick he's just a humble guy who prefers having friends over causing a rift between his friends which would ultimately lead to the club falling apart.

you rejected then, that is the point , you can make choices where kodaka no, he just spend the whole novel running making bad choices in the heart of the moment he never really make a choice really based solery based on what he true wanted, he never made clear which he just wanted friends and nothing more, whenever peoples pressured him or he just "literally run" or he make a poor mistake choice which lead to more troubles.

that is the difference unless the writer is trying to say me which "kodaka" cowardice is pretty common in japan i really can't stand for something with a so terrible designed personality where i must go to the "uncanny valley" to believe on his behavious.

this series lost his sense in the moment which kodaka started to fall more deep in being a failure, because the serie ending neither being about "grow" neither being about true to himself" because kodaka don't fit in none of that sides since he never could be true to himself and neither grow, and 16 to 17 years is a good enough age to peoples not be acting anymoe like a 8 or 19 years old little child, which is kodaka case.

even at the beginner the girls with all they weirds and personall problem where more mature than himself could dream to be even in the beginner, among all in the group kodaka was true the most troublesome until the end.

kodaka perfect way of friendship

peoples hanging around him, doing stupid things to make he laught, but no real deep connection, if you have a trouble and need advices he will be the last one to do, he don't want any real deep connection and not just romance but friendship, he just want peoples to be around him not true friends and obvious neither romance.
he just the basic "i want to be the center of the world", ego.

[tuckersister]

How many years pasted in Vol 11?

[Kuroageha]

Just one, the last of their school.

[tfate]

so last volume?

[niarc]

after not read the LN and this forum thread seems the development turn toward drastic change. i can accept if the ending is with yozora instead of sena, but seriously yukimura???

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by niarc

after not read the LN and this forum thread seems the development turn toward drastic change. i can accept if the ending is with yozora instead of sena, but seriously yukimura???

Oh wow you ARE out of it. He dated Yukimura for a year then they broke up it ended with an open end/friendship ending.