American's military supremacy ignored in War animes

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by carloboy

2nd, its an anime for goodness sakes, its fantasy/fiction and its about Gundams. America doesnt have Gundams and only the Japanese do LMFAO

Yeah,America pretty much gets Shafted for the most part in the mecha arena,but Britain doesn't .

[carloboy]

I doubt the world will collapse when america collapses. Your history teacher must be a hard-core american, it is true that america was untouched at the end of WWII so technically it was the only country that had full production capabilities and had the strongest economy because France's, Britain's and most of Europe got beaten up badly and was essentially broke because of the war. --- But that was uhmm like 50 yrs ago!

world crumbles when america crumbles is just a plain ignorant statement. The world doesnt revolve around america you know....as does anime, its made by the japanese for the japanese. If americans made cartoons you'd want them to be based on American things right? And not any other country...same goes for japanese anime.

America doesnt have Gundam's only Japan does, so there u go

[DarkCntry]

Originally Posted by carloboy

I doubt the world will collapse when america collapses. Your history teacher must be a hard-core american, it is true that america was untouched at the end of WWII so technically it was the only country that had full production capabilities and had the strongest economy because France's, Britain's and most of Europe got beaten up badly and was essentially broke because of the war. --- But that was uhmm like 50 yrs ago!

world crumbles when america crumbles is just a plain ignorant statement. The world doesnt revolve around america you know....as does anime, its made by the japanese for the japanese. If americans made cartoons you'd want them to be based on American things right? And not any other country...same goes for japanese anime.

America doesnt have Gundam's only Japan does, so there u go

Actually, you might want to rethink the idea that the world wouldn't collapse if the US did...global economy is driven off the market for the dollar, and if that were to completely bottom out, so would the global economy, and welcome to a world-wide recession.

And this isn't from a hardcore American, but someone who's actually looked into global-level economy, and suffice to say...in terms of that, the world does revolve around the US.

[carloboy]

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Actually, you might want to rethink the idea that the world wouldn't collapse if the US did...global economy is driven off the market for the dollar, and if that were to completely bottom out, so would the global economy, and welcome to a world-wide recession.

And this isn't from a hardcore American, but someone who's actually looked into global-level economy, and suffice to say...in terms of that, the world does revolve around the US.

I don't see any valid points on how the fall of the US means the fall of the world, you only gave me your conclusive theory.
When you said "global economy is driven off the market for the dollar", how so?
This is my view on how the US dollar seems to run the world, maybe you would agree.
1. US is the largest financial contributor to many 3rd world countries
2. US has abaundant resources and has the technology to access them.
3. Many countries invest in US businesses and vice-versa.
4. Most advanced military (though not important to the world economy)

#2 and #4 can be done without
#1 - This would cause a resession on the 3rd world countries, but not for long
#3 - This is a biggie, since alot of countries invest in the US and vice versa alot of money is in stake, when the US crumbles this also would surely cause resession. But you gotta think throughly, most countries that invest in the US are "first-world" counties like France, Britain, Germany, Japan I would doubt that they would focus all their assets to America. Actually they invest only a fraction of their total GNP.
If they lose a few million they can make it up. If there is a recession, there will be a recovery.
So i guess your correct that i should change my Idea. If the US falls, the world will be in a recession -- temporarily. Come to think of it, China will have a far greater impact on the world if it falls....

[AvatarADV]

Originally Posted by carloboy

I don't see any valid points on how the fall of the US means the fall of the world, you only gave me your conclusive theory.

Realistically, while the world would survive a major upheaval in the US, it would do -tremendous- economic damage.

It would take quite some time for the world economy to transition from dollar basis to the euro (and honestly, there -are- no other candidates... Japan's currency system is still weakened from their recession and China's is a joke.) In the meantime, commodity prices swing wildly as people work out exactly where their currencies stack up in a world where things can't be pegged to the dollar. A lot of currencies would undergo periods of severe inflation or even hyper-inflation. The EU would ride it out, but it would kick their foreign trade out from under them, as EU-produced items suddenly become too expensive to sell overseas.

More tellingly, though, would be the loss of certainty that's provided by the US's military power. A lot of first-world countries have been getting a free ride on the military front because, should they meet a threat from another country, they can fall back on local US forces. Without the moderating influence of the superpower, there's almost certainly war between mainland China and Taiwan, between North and South Korea, Pakistan and India (ouch!), possibly a couple of other flash points. Somebody would try another invasion of Israel, and the Israelis would respond with nukes. Heck, even basic shipping security would be completely undermined - the only countries in the world with a deep-water navy would be Britain and France, and their forces aren't nearly large enough to patrol the world's oceans. Suddenly piracy looks like a much more attractive option... do you know how much a supertanker's cargo is worth? ;p

Oh, and the UN's physical assets are gone, so you've got to put together another one.

In an uncertain military environment, you'd see massive rearmament programs from France and Britain. Germany would want to play too, but that's a major point of contention with the possibility of cracking the EU's unity like a nut. Russia could use arms sales to rebuild its way to at least minor-power status, and with the US gone it's the only country really capable of MAD nuclear defense. Japan would re-arm, but with only the natural resources available to them and no trade they can't secure themselves, they're suddenly right back in their pre-WW2 situation... but with no US to get in the way. Of course China isn't going to like that (in fact, I don't think anybody has happy memories of that time!)

So suddenly everybody is nervous, arming up, everything that the US has managed to keep a lid on is boiling over all at once, the Islamists are dancing in the streets (if not rioting, heh...) It's a recipe for massive uncertainty, which in turn is terrible for business investment. It would take years just to stabilize from the chaos, and then the problems caused by the sudden elevation of half a dozen countries to world power status would take even more years to shake down. That is, of course, if nobody decides to start tossing nuclear weapons around, in which case -all- bets are off.

That would be bad, yes. Fortunately it's really unlikely - the US economy enjoys a huge benefit precisely because its power makes it a safe investment relative to other countries. (Naturally this wobbles a bit whenever we're doing risky stuff, but the US at war is safer for investment than most countries at peace!)

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by AvatarADV

Heck, even basic shipping security would be completely undermined - the only countries in the world with a deep-water navy would be Britain and France, and their forces aren't nearly large enough to patrol the world's oceans. Suddenly piracy looks like a much more attractive option... do you know how much a supertanker's cargo is worth? ;p

Not to mention a sudden availability of cheap, used warships. Not only would Britain and france not have the number of ships needed, they'd quickly find themselves outgunned when going up against pirates. It would be safe to say there would be no large scale international shipping for at least 10 years, and then only in large convoys, like in ww2.

[J´GLF]

Originally Posted by asaqe

I dont get it why they dont acknowledge america's military power in war animes like gundam I though america was damn powerful and that everone acknowledged its strengh so why not in anime as well?

Anime is made by japan for japan and Gundam is fiction, why would they need to talk about the US?..sorry but is really annoying to hear comments like those when the US makes tv programs all the time where they portray misconceptions about the world, foreign cultures and history all the time and where aliens and extraterrestrial civilizations has english as a official language...

[DarkCntry]

Originally Posted by J´GLF

Anime is made by japan for japan and Gundam is fiction, why would they need to talk about the US?..sorry but is really annoying to hear comments like those when the US makes tv programs all the time where they portray misconceptions about the world, foreign cultures and history all the time and where aliens and extraterrestrial civilizations has english as a official language...

Kinda like how a lot of Japanese programming has everyone speaking Japanese? Every nation will be biased in it's programming...just because you don't like to discuss these things doesn't mean we can't, besides I find this a fairly valid topic.

[dreamless]

lol, of course US will not likely to suffer a sudden downfall, and if such a sudden downfall happens the world will be in upheaval. But then Rome is not built in one day, nor is it destroyed in one day. The downfall of US will be gradual, the decline will spread out over decades and maybe a century.

[Kensuke]

Its not the same to compare the effects of fall of Rome and the fall of US. One and the most important thing is that world is a lot smaller. After Rome, Europe suffered centuries of Dark Age, and the same time China and several cultures in Central and South America (Maya, Inka) were the most advanced on earth, but because of distances there were no effects to them.

Fall of the most influential world power now would have enourmous effects.
Situation now is that EU or China are way too weak to take US' place, but like dreamless said, the process would take a long time and during this time the rest of the world changes too. EU may finds its way to unity or not, Russia will probably rise again, and economic balance is even now moving from US and EU to Asia, mainly China and India.

Could anybody have quessed 20 years ago where are we now, and how is the world 20 years from now?

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by J´GLF

Anime is made by japan for japan and Gundam is fiction, why would they need to talk about the US?..sorry but is really annoying to hear comments like those when the US makes tv programs all the time where they portray misconceptions about the world, foreign cultures and history all the time and where aliens and extraterrestrial civilizations has english as a official language...

Actually aliens are just really polite and speak english in front of humans, or they have some kind of translation device.
And all countries portray misconceptions about other cultures in their tv programs. The US is not alone in that.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Not to mention a sudden availability of cheap, used warships. Not only would Britain and france not have the number of ships needed, they'd quickly find themselves outgunned when going up against pirates. It would be safe to say there would be no large scale international shipping for at least 10 years, and then only in large convoys, like in ww2.

That's true,especially with Britain,who is even now,strangely reducing the number of her ships in a period where it needs them.I shudder to think the consequences of when Britain is forced to rely on her now limited naval power.

[carloboy]

Originally Posted by AvatarADV

Realistically, while the world would survive a major upheaval in the US, it would do -tremendous- economic damage.

It would take quite some time for the world economy to transition from dollar basis to the euro (and honestly, there -are- no other candidates... Japan's currency system is still weakened from their recession and China's is a joke.) In the meantime, commodity prices swing wildly as people work out exactly where their currencies stack up in a world where things can't be pegged to the dollar. A lot of currencies would undergo periods of severe inflation or even hyper-inflation. The EU would ride it out, but it would kick their foreign trade out from under them, as EU-produced items suddenly become too expensive to sell overseas.

More tellingly, though, would be the loss of certainty that's provided by the US's military power. A lot of first-world countries have been getting a free ride on the military front because, should they meet a threat from another country, they can fall back on local US forces. Without the moderating influence of the superpower, there's almost certainly war between mainland China and Taiwan, between North and South Korea, Pakistan and India (ouch!), possibly a couple of other flash points. Somebody would try another invasion of Israel, and the Israelis would respond with nukes. Heck, even basic shipping security would be completely undermined - the only countries in the world with a deep-water navy would be Britain and France, and their forces aren't nearly large enough to patrol the world's oceans. Suddenly piracy looks like a much more attractive option... do you know how much a supertanker's cargo is worth? ;p

Oh, and the UN's physical assets are gone, so you've got to put together another one.

In an uncertain military environment, you'd see massive rearmament programs from France and Britain. Germany would want to play too, but that's a major point of contention with the possibility of cracking the EU's unity like a nut. Russia could use arms sales to rebuild its way to at least minor-power status, and with the US gone it's the only country really capable of MAD nuclear defense. Japan would re-arm, but with only the natural resources available to them and no trade they can't secure themselves, they're suddenly right back in their pre-WW2 situation... but with no US to get in the way. Of course China isn't going to like that (in fact, I don't think anybody has happy memories of that time!)

So suddenly everybody is nervous, arming up, everything that the US has managed to keep a lid on is boiling over all at once, the Islamists are dancing in the streets (if not rioting, heh...) It's a recipe for massive uncertainty, which in turn is terrible for business investment. It would take years just to stabilize from the chaos, and then the problems caused by the sudden elevation of half a dozen countries to world power status would take even more years to shake down. That is, of course, if nobody decides to start tossing nuclear weapons around, in which case -all- bets are off.

That would be bad, yes. Fortunately it's really unlikely - the US economy enjoys a huge benefit precisely because its power makes it a safe investment relative to other countries. (Naturally this wobbles a bit whenever we're doing risky stuff, but the US at war is safer for investment than most countries at peace!)

Why should the world have to switch focus on the Euro from the dollar? A few years ago the dollar had certainly more value per Euro. Europeans used to invest alot in the dollar because it was worth alot more a few decades ago, and if the US failed, then as you said alot of currecies will be at a loss.
But currently its the other way around, the Euro and Pound are worth more so why should they suffer to a loss of currency which has less value then theirs?
Though im sure in some ways they would suffer economically since there is no doubt alot of companies worldwide have headquarters in the US but the US isnt the only super-power.

China is a Joke? If the world loses China, there would no longer be a good source of cheap labor, thus increasing production costs and that cost will be passed on the consumers worldwide. In order to cut costs, numerous companies have to either make it themselves, find a new source for cheap labor, and/or cut jobs. More unemplyment, less wages and no source for cheap labor would cause a steep drop in consumer demand and a price hike on almost every product produced.If there are no more "Made in China" logos then you'll have to pay the premium. Sorry to say but your mistaken.

You talk like the world is going to explode in wars without the US, thats just plain wrong. Whats up with that frame of mind, people have their own thoughts and naturally humans prefer not to engage in violence. There is not such thing as MAD defense today, as the word implies Mutually Assured Destruction. Your msg was more on the political side and once again a theory...

And for one thing though, i think the thread is getting way off topic so this might be my last post on the subject. But ill be glad to hear your comments.

Last word, why there is no american military in most japanese war animes?
1. face the fact that anime is japanese and they tend to prioritize their military more.
2. anime is fiction/fantasy you cant expect them to follow reality
3. about gundams, only the japanese have them, the US doesnt :P

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by carloboy

1. face the fact that anime is japanese and they tend to prioritize their military more.

What military?SDF maybe,but military?

[J´GLF]

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Kinda like how a lot of Japanese programming has everyone speaking Japanese? Every nation will be biased in it's programming...just because you don't like to discuss these things doesn't mean we can't, besides I find this a fairly valid topic.

i didn't say i didn't want to discuss it, i just said my opinion

[carloboy]

Originally Posted by Entropy

What military?SDF maybe,but military?

The Military that bombed pearl harbor.
The Navy that was seen by the UN* that was equal to the US in the post-ww2 era and though its smaller now due to treaties, it still has the capability to match the US force if they were to build up the their military again. Please dont underestimate other countries, your own military doesn't.

*Sphere's of Influence, Japan had the biggest after ww2, next was the US and britain and last 2 was france and soviet union i believe. just took a summer course of American History 2 last semester.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by carloboy

The Military that bombed pearl harbor.
The Navy that was seen by the UN* that was equal to the US in the post-ww2 era and though its smaller now due to treaties, it still has the capability to match the US force if they were to build up the their military again. Please dont underestimate other countries, your own military doesn't.

I meant the modern Japanese military,which is called an SDF,and IS an SDF.The one that's currently in Iraq,that one that paints big white Japanese flag signs on thier vehicles,that SDF.

There's have a Naval SDF,which has the oddest commercials ever I might odd.

Believe me,I know a good amount on the Japanese military,including thier Germ warfare projects.Unit 731 anyone?

And if Japan Decides to Rearm,you think China and Korea will not notice?Believe me,they'll be alarmed,especially China.The Japanese people doesn't want to rearm itself,which is good,because even though the Japanese might want to forget WWII,the Chinese don't,and the Koreans don't.Both are nuclear powers as well.

[AvatarADV]

Originally Posted by carloboy

China is a Joke? If the world loses China, there would no longer be a good source of cheap labor, thus increasing production costs and that cost will be passed on the consumers worldwide. In order to cut costs, numerous companies have to either make it themselves, find a new source for cheap labor, and/or cut jobs. More unemplyment, less wages and no source for cheap labor would cause a steep drop in consumer demand and a price hike on almost every product produced.If there are no more "Made in China" logos then you'll have to pay the premium. Sorry to say but your mistaken.

China's -banking system- is a joke, from context. They don't have a lot of the securities laws or the transparency that we have in the US. We have them because we've gone through several painful episodes in the past where lots of people got screwed out of their money by dishonest companies and swindlers. Not that we're entirely free of that ourselves (Enron, heh), but it requires a fairly sophisticated setup to defraud investors in the US; in China you have outright pyramid schemes operating.

That matters a lot when it comes to international business, because nobody wants their banks turning out to be bankrupt, and nobody wants to buy stock if the market is going to go down 50% across the board because of an economic crisis or something similar.

In the absence of the US, the EU's financial regulations are the next obvious successor, because Japan would have to enact serious reforms and China would have to bother to pass the laws in the first place, THEN reform them. ;p

(Actually you could make an argument that it would be Britain, not the EU as a whole, that would replace the US as a financial center, given that London is still quite important as a business capital... but that's neither here nor there really.)

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by carloboy

You talk like the world is going to explode in wars without the US, thats just plain wrong. Whats up with that frame of mind, people have their own thoughts and naturally humans prefer not to engage in violence.

Yes, and human history, which is filled with only peace and friendship between nations, supports that... Oh wait...

I don't know what version of history you've been taught, but the version I was taught has more periods of war than peace. Humans are naturally agressive, not passive. Humans perfer violence over peace. Diplomacy only works when backed by force of arms. We are currently in a state of relative peace, backed by the force of the US military. If that force was removed....

Originally Posted by carloboy

The Military that bombed pearl harbor.
The Navy that was seen by the UN* that was equal to the US in the post-ww2 era and though its smaller now due to treaties, it still has the capability to match the US force if they were to build up the their military again. Please dont underestimate other countries, your own military doesn't.

*Sphere's of Influence, Japan had the biggest after ww2, next was the US and britain and last 2 was france and soviet union i believe. just took a summer course of American History 2 last semester.

Would that be the same navy that was completely decimated during the ww2? At the end of the war Japan had less than 10 capital ships left. Their massive carrier force sunk. Their massive battle fleet sunk. The super dreadnoughts yamato and musashi sunk. The US at that time had 60+ aircraft carriers. Yes that's really equal strength...
Now if you were refering to the washington treaty that regulated naval strength prior to the war, The US and Britian were set on par, France, Japan, and Italy were limited to 2/3rds of the forces of either the US or britian. However aircraft carriers were not considered a viable weapon at the time, so were not regulated. That's why Japan has 12 at the start of the war, while the us had 4, with a few under construction and a new design on the drawing board.
As for spheres of influence, Japan had none following ww2. They were being occupied by the US at the time. The US and Soviet Union were the only countries that had spheres of influence, which became nato and the warsaw pact.
Now if you meant ww1, that's a bit different. At the end of ww1 the US had the worlds largest military, which was soon demobilized. Japan had taken all of germany's territories in the pacific. The Soviet Union was just coming into existance, still in a state of civil war. You may have taken a history class, but were you actually paying attention in it?

[carloboy]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Yes, and human history, which is filled with only peace and friendship between nations, supports that... Oh wait...

I don't know what version of history you've been taught, but the version I was taught has more periods of war than peace. Humans are naturally agressive, not passive. Humans perfer violence over peace. Diplomacy only works when backed by force of arms. We are currently in a state of relative peace, backed by the force of the US military. If that force was removed....


Would that be the same navy that was completely decimated during the ww2? At the end of the war Japan had less than 10 capital ships left. Their massive carrier force sunk. Their massive battle fleet sunk. The super dreadnoughts yamato and musashi sunk. The US at that time had 60+ aircraft carriers. Yes that's really equal strength...
Now if you were refering to the washington treaty that regulated naval strength prior to the war, The US and Britian were set on par, France, Japan, and Italy were limited to 2/3rds of the forces of either the US or britian. However aircraft carriers were not considered a viable weapon at the time, so were not regulated. That's why Japan has 12 at the start of the war, while the us had 4, with a few under construction and a new design on the drawing board.
As for spheres of influence, Japan had none following ww2. They were being occupied by the US at the time. The US and Soviet Union were the only countries that had spheres of influence, which became nato and the warsaw pact.
Now if you meant ww1, that's a bit different. At the end of ww1 the US had the worlds largest military, which was soon demobilized. Japan had taken all of germany's territories in the pacific. The Soviet Union was just coming into existance, still in a state of civil war. You may have taken a history class, but were you actually paying attention in it?

Your talking about the philippine see battle and island hopping mission where the japs lost 3 aircraft carriers, 3 submarines, and more than 300 planes. those are huge losses but as i said, japan had equal navy strength at the post world war.

60 aircraft carriers??? Are you serious, do you even know how much those are worth? their almost 3 Billion dollars a piece, not mentioning the planes they carry.
Adding to that there are only 12 aircraft carriers afloat and 2 whiching is currently being built.
The US had only 72 +- carriers in their lifetime, more than 1/3 have been decommisioned WAY before ww2 and 1/4 right now that werent even built during the post war period.

The US and Soviet Union were the only countries that had spheres of influence

Bull, do some research. Maybe i should do it for you? The US had North America, France and Britain had Europe, and Japan had the Asia. The Sphere of Influence was as big as your Navy and had according ratio's to control mass production of more warships. Added: Britain also had Sphere of Influence over India and Hong Kong and France had the right to patrol of Africa.

Actually i made a 96 overall and post war test im sure i made an A, im not a history major im i know my stuff. Im not sure where you get your facts but dont insult me asking if i pay attention im not a 17 yr old junior in college for nothing.

Im done in this thread, i dont even know why im arguing on American History, 1st im not even american but i seem to know more than they do, 2nd im not a history major trying to write a theis paper, 3rd no one on the net would change my mind, ive been thought the same thing in HS and in College so im not going to try and convince you.