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BBOvenGuy · 2017-10-14, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I noticed they seem to be trying to hide Kino's gender as much as possible. The only hint so far was Riku saying something to Shizu that made him change the way he referred to her from "Kino-kun" to "Kino-san".

Riku could probably tell from Kino's scent that she's female. Dogs are like that.

Quote:

In both versions, the woman who lost her husband in the Colosseum remained a mystery to me. Why was she smiling, and why did she tell Kino to go to that country knowing full well what it was truly like?

There's definitely more to that story than the author chose to tell us. That usually means it's best if we imagine it for ourselves.

I'm working my way through the 2003 series, and the "Colosseum" two-parter is up next. I'll see how watching the newer version before the older one works.

serenade_beta · 2017-10-14, 02:08

Spoiler for ep2:

Blueknight78 · 2017-10-14, 02:09

honestly i get a little disappointed, because i was thinking which this anime could be "new adventures" not a "remaster" of the old one, specially rushed like that, that colisseum episode was painfull, a lot of rush and you could barelly understood or relate to any character, due to the "hard rush here, if this serie will be like that them probably will be a drop for me cuz could be much better just stick with the old version since we actually get a proper development for characters and proper time not a rush in speed of light.

Ghostfriendly · 2017-10-14, 04:38

Definitely prefer the original, but if it had to be compressed into one ep, they didn't do a bad job. Atmosphere and cinematography were very good. Shame we didn't get the king's backstory in puppet form, or hear that Kino actually enjoys the fights, but at least Miss Rose, the female warrior, had a happier fate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Kino most definitely did what she did to avenge her, but I'm not sure that was what the woman had in mind when she sent her there. Her smile is really throwing me off.

Anyone know when this story takes place chronologically? I'm thinking it might be the reason Kino never gets involved in the matters of the countries she visits.

Did you see Battle Royale? I think the reason for Keiko's smile may be similar to this woman's. The killing game let her husband make the ultimate show of love for her by letting her yield and escape, then dying himself. Doesn't really justify the games, but it's a good point about the the purpose of the real world's meaningless suffering.

Or the woman may have guessed from Kino's demeanor what a tough cookie she is. Kino had the three days and non-judgemental rules from the beginning.

Renchan · 2017-10-14, 10:13

As much as I'm saddened with the rush, I'd prefer this way than skipping the story entirely and have the summary attached in the next time Shizu appear again (espicially since that chapter is another long one). Giving the colloseum 2 episodes is also a no no, considering this is only 1 cour and they want to adapt new stuff.

Kanon · 2017-10-14, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Riku could probably tell from Kino's scent that she's female. Dogs are like that.

I know that. My point was that they were subtle by not having Riku say it out loud and leaving only the change of honorifics as a hint. I bet they're going to keep trying to make her gender ambiguous until her backstory episode.

BBOvenGuy · 2017-10-16, 01:26

So, a lot of people who saw the 2003 version of "Colosseum" first thought the 2017 version was rushed. By a quirk of timing, I made myself the guinea pig who saw the 2017 version first, and then went back to watch the 2003 version.

You know what I thought? The 2003 version felt padded.

They're two different stories, with two different aims and two different focuses (yeah, "foci" is technically correct, but you know what I mean). As a writer, I find that fascinating. Each screenwriter set out to adapt the same source material, but with different goals in mind. To me, that counts as a win-win.

In the 2017 version, it felt to me like Kino went to the town and entered the tournament already planning to get revenge for the couple. That was the goal all along. When she says, "Revenge is ludicrous" at the end, she's being ironic. And the experience affected her, which is why she was throwing rocks into the lake. In the 2003 version, it feels like Kino bumbles into the town and gradually arrives at the decision to kill the king - and she doesn't seem to feel a whole lot about it at the end.

The puppet show scene was really problematic for me. I thought the king was perfectly fine as a silent menace in the 2017 version. The whole puppet show scene makes him seem more like The Joker than a tyrannical ruler. And the idea that he wouldn't recognize his own son after only seven years apart strains the suspension of disbelief, especially when Shizu is already an adult and wouldn't have changed that much. I have a pair of twelve-year-old nieces, who have changed a lot more from when they were five than Shizu would have over the past seven years, and yet they're still easily recognizable.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, the 2003 version does an excellent job of filling out a bunch of other characters, most notably the other tournament fighters but also the guard who takes Kino into the under-city. But none of those characters are really necessary if you're telling a "Kino takes revenge" story. They're only important in a "Kino learns about the people and the country" story, which is what the 2003 version is.

So, as I said, each version works just fine for what it is and what it's meant to be. Now I feel like I need to track down the source material. Is it in Volume 1, because that's the only volume I've been able to find available in English.

BloodyKitty · 2017-10-16, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

So, as I said, each version works just fine for what it is and what it's meant to be. Now I feel like I need to track down the source material. Is it in Volume 1, because that's the only volume I've been able to find available in English.

Yes, it's in volume 1. It's nice to see your viewpoint

. Warning though, the official English translation of vol.1 is kind of iffy at certain parts, they added dialogues and details that were not in the Japanese version to make it sounds more "localization" (I guess it's called that), and imo doesn't capture the tone of the original very well.

**monir** · 2017-10-17, 02:34

Brings back so many memories.

MeoTwister5 · 2017-10-19, 02:41

I have to say that even in this version I still don't understand why Kino chose with one law to let the country pretty much implode on itself. I also held the belief that maybe she chose to fight as a sort of vengeance for the womans husband but did she really need to declare a full on battle royale fof the throne?

At some point the nation's hedonistic culture would have tore itself apary eventually but she all but allowed the free reign of the populace's bloodlust. It was never really explained then and wasn't even touched on here. Heck IIRC in the 2003 version she had had the addendum that anyonr who did not want to participate had the option to nope out of Dodge.

PhoenixRising · 2017-10-19, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I have to say that even in this version I still don't understand why Kino chose with one law to let the country pretty much implode on itself. I also held the belief that maybe she chose to fight as a sort of vengeance for the womans husband but did she really need to declare a full on battle royale fof the throne?

At some point the nation's hedonistic culture would have tore itself apary eventually but she all but allowed the free reign of the populace's bloodlust. It was never really explained then and wasn't even touched on here. Heck IIRC in the 2003 version she had had the addendum that anyonr who did not want to participate had the option to nope out of Dodge.

She probably didn't need to, but she probably felt she had to. I'm not justifying her actions because I think she went too far too, but I can kind of understand why Kino chose to enact that law.

It was probably a mix of anger, humiliation and sadness.

On one hand, I think part of it was Kino getting vengeance for the couple. I think (and this is just my theory) that Kino realized that the woman was Shizu's sister. It mentions in Hermes' story that the king's children ran away (they never mention the gender of the children, so it could've been a brother and his sister). I think what happened is that when the woman went back to her country after being away for so long, she was so disappointed by how much her country had crumbled into greed and corruption that she just gave up on it and wanted to leave it. That's why, that woman seemed nostalgically sad during Kino's flashback of her second meeting with the woman again. Even if she did say it with a smile on her face, the way she said it was kind of in a sad way like she was remembering something and I think she may've wanted Kino to destroy it. I also think that's why Kino encouraged Shizu to be king because even though he wanted to kill the king, he did it because he loved his country and his people enough to try and save it, and he hadn't given up on it.

The second reason is maybe Kino just hates being lied to and was just angry at herself for being lied and perhaps allowing herself to be deceived by the country and the woman's claims. I haven't seen the 2003 version, so I can't be sure, but it seems like Kino had a lot of high expectations for the country coming into it, because of what she heard from the couple and others. But, when she got there, she realized that she had not only been deceived, but tricked by the rumors about the country and by the country too since they were using the lies to forcibly coerce strangers to enter the tournament. Kino was then forced to enter the tournament and upon seeing the city, she realized that none of rumors were true and got disappointed by it. The guards did say that there were green hills, but the hills weren't as beautiful as what they probably were back before the new king usurped the throne from his father. So, there is definitely a self-anger and humiliation aspect to Kino making that order.

I also feel that if I were in Kino's shoes and had gone through all that, I would be just as emotionally scarred and disappointed as she was. However, even if I did have thoughts like enacting such a law, I probably wouldn't have done it. Though I'd be tempted to.

BloodyKitty · 2017-10-20, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Crunchyroll elaborates on which stories are included in this series, and how they were chosen:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-fea...-kinos-journey

Somehow I missed this link the last time I read the thread. If someone's curious, the result of that "favorite country" poll is here (the original Japanese result is here)

Some of the chosen stories for the new anime are not even in the poll result, some of the chosen stories appeared in the poll but didn't rank very high, so the poll was only one of the factors for the producers to consider, not a decisive factor. Some of stories from 2003 anime appeared on the poll (Land of Visible Pain, Three Men on the Rails, A Tale of Feeding Off Others, A Tale of a Mechanical Doll, Land of Majority Rule) but won't make it to the new anime as well, so it's must be true that they remake only the important background stories (A Kind Land, Land of Adults, Colosseum), those 3 rank among the highest as well.

Also some of my most favorite stories on the poll not counting the ones from 2003 anime (Land with a Diva, Land of Ajin, For Luck, Land of Heroes, A Land without Walls, The Land of Identical Faces, Land of Cooking) aren't chosen for the new anime. What a pity because these stories are fantastic, though to do some of these stories you need to introduce all the recurring characters first (which is what the new anime will be doing) and making at least 2 episodes for some other stories, so I can understand if the producer decided not to adapt them this time. If another season is possible, I hope they will do these stories.

Renchan · 2017-10-20, 11:34

Before I saw that list, I was so sure Land of Diva would make it, considering its characters also appeared in Gakuen Kino. But I suppose the fact that Kino being a side character in that story prevent LoD getting into the anime.

Also I'd like to see Land of Cooking getting adapted someday, so we can see Kino's deadliest weapon.

Kamieichi · 2017-10-20, 11:42

This is the first anime appearance of Flute, huh. Too bad the story about Kino obtaining it will not be animated in this adaptation. I kind of remember it was an entertaining story.

Kanon · 2017-10-20, 12:01

I was shocked when Kino asked to stay for five to ten days instead of her usual three days. I didn't understand why until they revealed it at the end. That was quite clever of her, making use of that country in that fashion. She had a pretty good time there too, thanks to their advanced technology.

One thing I've always wondered and I hope this new anime will answer is how exactly Kino pays for her traveling expenses.

BloodyKitty · 2017-10-20, 12:14

I used to wonder what exactly that obstructing country would try to demand from Kino if she passed by it without staying at the moving country, as Kino ruled out labor and her weapons. Kino has means to cover her traveling expenses, but tbh she's usually broke

.

Next episode preview:

Next episode is the Ship Country. Damn, are they really going to cram that in to 1 episode only? It's one of the longest chapters in the novel, even longer than Colosseum

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renchan

Also I'd like to see Land of Cooking getting adapted someday, so we can see Kino's deadliest weapon.

Me too, that chapter was hilarious. It's always fun to see more different sides of Kino

ArrowSmith · 2017-10-20, 16:01

That traveling country is very destructive to the environment. But think about it, they don't pollute the air, water and don't make war on other countries. That's probably why Kino sided with them.

Kanon · 2017-10-20, 19:47

Kino sided with them because they provided her with an opportunity to cross the plains without being extorted by the other country, not because she approved of them. In fact, she chose to conveniently ignore the moving country's wrongdoings. The military country stubbornly wanted one of her precious persuaders (I just love that this term is used to designate guns in Kino's world) as payment for safe passage, and that was a no-no.

ArrowSmith · 2017-10-20, 20:34

Kino in this version is much more bad-ass than the 2003 version which was more existentialist in approach. Seems to be following a general trend in anime the last few years of more 'flash' than 'substance'.

Applehell · 2017-10-21, 02:58

A moving country is a pretty neat concept. Shame about the environment destruction it's causing just by moving around tho but they do try limit by having the thing run on steam instead of gas and mostly sticking to roads. With how technologically advanced they are perhaps it's people develop flight tech at one point to reduce that issue.

2017-10-14, 02:08	Link #62
serenade_beta そのおっぱいで13才 Join Date: Dec 2006	Spoiler for ep2: Yeah, that was pretty rushed... They could have just given me a summary that Kino met Shizu and I wouldn't be at a lost. __________________ -Blog --> http://tdnshumi.blogspot.com/ (Mainly about video games) -R.I.P. Hiroshi Yamauchi, Gaming wouldn't have been the same without you (9/19/13)

2017-10-14, 02:09	Link #63
Blueknight78 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014	honestly i get a little disappointed, because i was thinking which this anime could be "new adventures" not a "remaster" of the old one, specially rushed like that, that colisseum episode was painfull, a lot of rush and you could barelly understood or relate to any character, due to the "hard rush here, if this serie will be like that them probably will be a drop for me cuz could be much better just stick with the old version since we actually get a proper development for characters and proper time not a rush in speed of light. __________________

2017-10-19, 02:41	Link #70
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	I have to say that even in this version I still don't understand why Kino chose with one law to let the country pretty much implode on itself. I also held the belief that maybe she chose to fight as a sort of vengeance for the womans husband but did she really need to declare a full on battle royale fof the throne? At some point the nation's hedonistic culture would have tore itself apary eventually but she all but allowed the free reign of the populace's bloodlust. It was never really explained then and wasn't even touched on here. Heck IIRC in the 2003 version she had had the addendum that anyonr who did not want to participate had the option to nope out of Dodge. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2017-10-20, 12:01	Link #75
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	I was shocked when Kino asked to stay for five to ten days instead of her usual three days. I didn't understand why until they revealed it at the end. That was quite clever of her, making use of that country in that fashion. She had a pretty good time there too, thanks to their advanced technology. One thing I've always wondered and I hope this new anime will answer is how exactly Kino pays for her traveling expenses. __________________

2017-10-20, 19:47	Link #78
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	Kino sided with them because they provided her with an opportunity to cross the plains without being extorted by the other country, not because she approved of them. In fact, she chose to conveniently ignore the moving country's wrongdoings. The military country stubbornly wanted one of her precious persuaders (I just love that this term is used to designate guns in Kino's world) as payment for safe passage, and that was a no-no. __________________

2017-10-14, 10:13	Link #65
Renchan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Age: 32	As much as I'm saddened with the rush, I'd prefer this way than skipping the story entirely and have the summary attached in the next time Shizu appear again (espicially since that chapter is another long one). Giving the colloseum 2 episodes is also a no no, considering this is only 1 cour and they want to adapt new stuff.

2017-10-16, 01:26	Link #67
BBOvenGuy Math Ninja Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura County CA Age: 59	So, a lot of people who saw the 2003 version of "Colosseum" first thought the 2017 version was rushed. By a quirk of timing, I made myself the guinea pig who saw the 2017 version first, and then went back to watch the 2003 version. You know what I thought? The 2003 version felt padded. They're two different stories, with two different aims and two different focuses (yeah, "foci" is technically correct, but you know what I mean). As a writer, I find that fascinating. Each screenwriter set out to adapt the same source material, but with different goals in mind. To me, that counts as a win-win. In the 2017 version, it felt to me like Kino went to the town and entered the tournament already planning to get revenge for the couple. That was the goal all along. When she says, "Revenge is ludicrous" at the end, she's being ironic. And the experience affected her, which is why she was throwing rocks into the lake. In the 2003 version, it feels like Kino bumbles into the town and gradually arrives at the decision to kill the king - and she doesn't seem to feel a whole lot about it at the end. The puppet show scene was really problematic for me. I thought the king was perfectly fine as a silent menace in the 2017 version. The whole puppet show scene makes him seem more like The Joker than a tyrannical ruler. And the idea that he wouldn't recognize his own son after only seven years apart strains the suspension of disbelief, especially when Shizu is already an adult and wouldn't have changed that much. I have a pair of twelve-year-old nieces, who have changed a lot more from when they were five than Shizu would have over the past seven years, and yet they're still easily recognizable. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, the 2003 version does an excellent job of filling out a bunch of other characters, most notably the other tournament fighters but also the guard who takes Kino into the under-city. But none of those characters are really necessary if you're telling a "Kino takes revenge" story. They're only important in a "Kino learns about the people and the country" story, which is what the 2003 version is. So, as I said, each version works just fine for what it is and what it's meant to be. Now I feel like I need to track down the source material. Is it in Volume 1, because that's the only volume I've been able to find available in English.

2017-10-20, 11:34	Link #73
Renchan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Age: 32	Before I saw that list, I was so sure Land of Diva would make it, considering its characters also appeared in Gakuen Kino. But I suppose the fact that Kino being a side character in that story prevent LoD getting into the anime. Also I'd like to see Land of Cooking getting adapted someday, so we can see Kino's deadliest weapon.

2017-10-20, 11:42	Link #74
Kamieichi Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013	This is the first anime appearance of Flute, huh. Too bad the story about Kino obtaining it will not be animated in this adaptation. I kind of remember it was an entertaining story.

2017-10-20, 16:01	Link #77
ArrowSmith Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	That traveling country is very destructive to the environment. But think about it, they don't pollute the air, water and don't make war on other countries. That's probably why Kino sided with them.

2017-10-20, 20:34	Link #79
ArrowSmith Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Kino in this version is much more bad-ass than the 2003 version which was more existentialist in approach. Seems to be following a general trend in anime the last few years of more 'flash' than 'substance'.

2017-10-21, 02:58	Link #80
Applehell Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016	A moving country is a pretty neat concept. Shame about the environment destruction it's causing just by moving around tho but they do try limit by having the thing run on steam instead of gas and mostly sticking to roads. With how technologically advanced they are perhaps it's people develop flight tech at one point to reduce that issue.