AnimeSuki Forums

orangejuicetang · 2009-08-05, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Q:Which character do you want to see animated(and his/her actions) in the same quality as KnK the most?

The fights are one, but personally, I'm hoping they do the dream sequences of the servants. Like Shiro seeing Saber's past, Rin seeing Archer's, or even Waver seeing Alexander's life in fate/zero, if they do on the off-chance decide to go that route.

Flinch · 2009-08-05, 21:38

I stand by the fact that Fate/Zero would be better for a movie for a few reasons. Kritsugu would be readily identifiable as a primary protagonist because he wants to save many lives by taking a few; Kariya would also because he's willing to sacrifice everything to save Sakura. No one else really has the same noble intentions as they do, which would make them protagonists. Ryuunosuke, Kotomine, and Tokiomi would be deemed as antagonists because Ryuunosuke is a murderer, Kotomine specifically wants to kill Kiritsugu, and Tokiomi gave his own daughter away. With that in mind, it makes more sense to make the movie after Fate/Zero than any of the paths in F/SN.

Tyabann · 2009-08-05, 21:57

...Kiritsugu is nowhere near being a hero. He's an extremist to a ridiculous extent.

Sure he has noble intentions, but the man is a fucking murderer.

Flinch · 2009-08-05, 22:07

Kiritsugu and Archer are exactly the same when it comes down to how they went about doing saving lives, yet you would say that neither of them are heroes? I think you need to scrutinize your point a bit more.

orangejuicetang · 2009-08-05, 22:31

eh, I would say that character wise, they both act more like anti-heroes than heroes. Although I can see why some people would call them heroes. It all really depends on what you define a hero as. Do you define a hero by what they accomplish, what they do to accomplish it, the reason they do it, their personality, or by a combination of the above?

Tyabann · 2009-08-05, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flinch

Kiritsugu and Archer are exactly the same when it comes down to how they went about doing saving lives, yet you would say that neither of them are heroes? I think you need to scrutinize your point a bit more.

...How is Archer a hero? As I recall, he doesn't consider himself a hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

eh, I would say that character wise, they both act more like anti-heroes than heroes. Although I can see why some people would call them heroes. It all really depends on what you define a hero as. Do you define a hero by what they accomplish, what they do to accomplish it, the reason they do it, their personality, or by a combination of the above?

I don't know how I'd define a hero, but I definitely wouldn't call a person who sends out his Servant to draw attention from Masters, and then shoots said Masters in the head with a sniper rifle from several hundred yards away a "hero".

Heroes are supposed to fight FAIR.

But I digress. We all know it's going to be UBW anyway, just by looking at the preview image.

willyvereb · 2009-08-05, 23:15

And Kariya is more pitifull than heroic. She suffers much and he even unsuccessfulin the end he's hurting the one he loves. If you watch him without knowing his original cause of joining the war you see him more like a villian(well, it's somewhat true to Kirigisu too)
I think neither of them is a better hero than Shirou. It's just forcing it. But perhaps watching a F/Z movie would be quite good. And it would solve the route debate.

Kimiko Khan · 2009-08-05, 23:39

[/QUOTE].How is Archer a hero? As I recall, he doesn't consider himself a hero.

I don't know how I'd define a hero, but I definitely wouldn't call a person who sends out his Servant to draw attention from Masters, and then shoots said Masters in the head with a sniper rifle from several hundred yards away a "hero".

Heroes are supposed to fight FAIR.

But I digress. We all know it's going to be UBW anyway, just by looking at the preview image.[/QUOTE]
Archer views himself as a failure, because he's not able to maintain his ideals and has to face the reality that he can't save everyone. He wants to and tries to but can't. Plus he's lost several people that he holds dear as well as the fact that as a counter guardian that's what he does he eliminates the issue to prevent further damage. He's a hero because he tries so hard to save everyone and does the best he can. That's all any hero can ever do and to blame them and expect them to do anything more than they can is wrong

define fair

and we have no clue how the movie is gonna go, for all we know they could be making an entirely new arc. hell they could even be doing hollow atraxia assuming its Unlimited blade Works purely because of the background for a website, that merely states movie coming, is the reality marble is retarded. hell you even see archer walking through it in the intro movie for the stay/night arc. at this point in time its all assumption and personal preference nothing is set in stone until they announce it

orangejuicetang · 2009-08-05, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...How is Archer a hero? As I recall, he doesn't consider himself a hero.

I actually thought about mentioning that in my post lol.

But yeah. It all depends on your point of view. After all, Gilgamesh is the "king of heroes", and, well, we all know how he is. Archer may not consider himself a hero, but other people might. Probably some of the people that Archer save might feel that he is a hero for saving their lives when they would have otherwised died. Okay, maybe not the one who used him as a scapegoat, but perhaps some of the others. And some of the people who he saved might also see him as a murderer. Perhaps he killed some innocent people in his effort to save more people, and there are a few who lost relatives or friends in that way due to him. Some people who see his ideal, (if he told them what it was that is), was a heroic one, while others would just laugh it as idealistic and naive, and yet others still might think it's both. In the end, it depends on the person.

i guess a simpler way to put it is if a hero is defined by what he accomplishes versus how he accomplishes it. Who would be the greater hero, the person who saves 100 people or the person who saved 200 people at the cost of 10.

And I wouldn't mind either a f/z or a ubw adaptation.

Tyabann · 2009-08-06, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimiko Khan

and we have no clue how the movie is gonna go, for all we know they could be making an entirely new arc. hell they could even be doing hollow atraxia assuming its Unlimited blade Works purely because of the background for a website, that merely states movie coming, is the reality marble is retarded. hell you even see archer walking through it in the intro movie for the stay/night arc. at this point in time its all assumption and personal preference nothing is set in stone until they announce it

You don't put up a preview image suggesting something and then not do just that. It's bad marketing.

But then again I've seen a lot of bad marketing recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

i guess a simpler way to put it is if a hero is defined by what he accomplishes versus how he accomplishes it. Who would be the greater hero, the person who saves 100 people or the person who saved 200 people at the cost of 10.

The person who saves 200 people at the cost of no lives at all.

Heroes are supposed to do the next-to-impossible, not go "Oh well, for the greater good I'm going to murder all the dangerous people in the world."

Man, I hate "greater good". Talking like that is the first step down the evil path.

Suzuku · 2009-08-06, 00:04

Looks like Newtype is saying that the movie is based on UBW Route and will air on January 23, 2010.

Looks like we can all have a nice time waiting a 13 months for subs now.

Marisa Kirisame · 2009-08-06, 00:13

DEEN confirmed...
Then again, I am greatly satisfied with UBW alone.

Kimiko Khan · 2009-08-06, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The person who saves 200 people at the cost of no lives at all.

Heroes are supposed to do the next-to-impossible, not go "Oh well, for the greater good I'm going to murder all the dangerous people in the world."

Man, I hate "greater good". Talking like that is the first step down the evil path.

yes that's the ideal, keyword, reality is by far different. there are times where there is nothing else you can do. besides such things are relative

Tyabann · 2009-08-06, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimiko Khan

yes that's the ideal, keyword, reality is by far different. there are times where there is nothing else you can do. besides such things are relative

No, Kiritsugu pretty much chose to become a professional mage-killer in order to "save people", as I recall.

There was plenty of other stuff he could have done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marisa Kirisame

DEEN confirmed...
Then again, I am greatly satisfied with UBW alone.

Huh, DEEN with a movie budget... wonder how they'll do.

willyvereb · 2009-08-06, 00:46

Yeah it's certainly relative. Like if you kill 10 people to save 20 is certainly more suitable for an anti-hero, while choosing saving the 200 instead the 10 is something a hero still can do(just remember superman for example).
I think the Hero is someone who does good by doing things fairly, while an anti-hero takes up the mask of villian to help others.
In general Hero's someone that others consider as hero while an anti-hero is somone that others don't consider as a hero until he accomplishes his/her duty(or sometimes they still think about him/her as a villian).

ZODDGUTS · 2009-08-06, 01:01

So it's DEEN again... well it may turn out decent like the TV series was... just decent.

Kimiko Khan · 2009-08-06, 01:02

i'm hoping they get the same voice actors

willyvereb · 2009-08-06, 01:07

Still tousand times better than the non-existent Tsukihime anime...
So if we can take all that as a confirmation then how do you think it's going to start?
"In medias res"? So we skip out a great part and jump start to the scene just before the finale for Rider-Shinji? With that we only have 2 "arcs" The caster arc and the Gilgamesh-Archer arc.
If they finnish it in one (quite long) movie then my hopes about a HF animation remains...

Kimiko Khan · 2009-08-06, 01:10

i would hope they broke it up a bit and that they started form the beginning since it changes rather quickly about when they fight berserker for the first time is the biggest change though the first change is when saber goes to attack archer

willyvereb · 2009-08-06, 01:26

Oh, right...I forgot to include it.Well, you're right the berserker fight was intense. But they could shorten the whole Rider part into the the last scene. I need no "Shinji keikaku" or Shirou vs Rider scenes. They can even shorten the caster scenes to do a full focus on the Archer and Gilgamesh ones.

2009-08-05, 21:38	Link #62
Flinch Onii-chan~ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Einzbern Castle Age: 32	I stand by the fact that Fate/Zero would be better for a movie for a few reasons. Kritsugu would be readily identifiable as a primary protagonist because he wants to save many lives by taking a few; Kariya would also because he's willing to sacrifice everything to save Sakura. No one else really has the same noble intentions as they do, which would make them protagonists. Ryuunosuke, Kotomine, and Tokiomi would be deemed as antagonists because Ryuunosuke is a murderer, Kotomine specifically wants to kill Kiritsugu, and Tokiomi gave his own daughter away. With that in mind, it makes more sense to make the movie after Fate/Zero than any of the paths in F/SN. __________________

2009-08-05, 22:07	Link #64
Flinch Onii-chan~ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Einzbern Castle Age: 32	Kiritsugu and Archer are exactly the same when it comes down to how they went about doing saving lives, yet you would say that neither of them are heroes? I think you need to scrutinize your point a bit more. __________________

2009-08-05, 22:31	Link #65
orangejuicetang Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 32	eh, I would say that character wise, they both act more like anti-heroes than heroes. Although I can see why some people would call them heroes. It all really depends on what you define a hero as. Do you define a hero by what they accomplish, what they do to accomplish it, the reason they do it, their personality, or by a combination of the above? __________________ WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.

2009-08-05, 23:39	Link #68
Kimiko Khan reality has no meaning Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: somewhere within the dark chaos that is my mind Age: 33	[/QUOTE].How is Archer a hero? As I recall, he doesn't consider himself a hero. I don't know how I'd define a hero, but I definitely wouldn't call a person who sends out his Servant to draw attention from Masters, and then shoots said Masters in the head with a sniper rifle from several hundred yards away a "hero". Heroes are supposed to fight FAIR. But I digress. We all know it's going to be UBW anyway, just by looking at the preview image.[/QUOTE] Archer views himself as a failure, because he's not able to maintain his ideals and has to face the reality that he can't save everyone. He wants to and tries to but can't. Plus he's lost several people that he holds dear as well as the fact that as a counter guardian that's what he does he eliminates the issue to prevent further damage. He's a hero because he tries so hard to save everyone and does the best he can. That's all any hero can ever do and to blame them and expect them to do anything more than they can is wrong define fair and we have no clue how the movie is gonna go, for all we know they could be making an entirely new arc. hell they could even be doing hollow atraxia assuming its Unlimited blade Works purely because of the background for a website, that merely states movie coming, is the reality marble is retarded. hell you even see archer walking through it in the intro movie for the stay/night arc. at this point in time its all assumption and personal preference nothing is set in stone until they announce it __________________

2009-08-06, 00:13	Link #72
Marisa Kirisame Previously cicido Join Date: Aug 2009	DEEN confirmed... Then again, I am greatly satisfied with UBW alone. __________________ Even the girls want her...

2009-08-05, 21:57	Link #63
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	...Kiritsugu is nowhere near being a hero. He's an extremist to a ridiculous extent. Sure he has noble intentions, but the man is a fucking murderer.

2009-08-05, 23:15	Link #67
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	And Kariya is more pitifull than heroic. She suffers much and he even unsuccessfulin the end he's hurting the one he loves. If you watch him without knowing his original cause of joining the war you see him more like a villian(well, it's somewhat true to Kirigisu too) I think neither of them is a better hero than Shirou. It's just forcing it. But perhaps watching a F/Z movie would be quite good. And it would solve the route debate.

2009-08-06, 00:04	Link #71
Suzuku (`･⊝･´)/\(`･⊝･´) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Age: 30	Looks like Newtype is saying that the movie is based on UBW Route and will air on January 23, 2010. Looks like we can all have a nice time waiting a 13 months for subs now.

2009-08-06, 00:46	Link #75
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Yeah it's certainly relative. Like if you kill 10 people to save 20 is certainly more suitable for an anti-hero, while choosing saving the 200 instead the 10 is something a hero still can do(just remember superman for example). I think the Hero is someone who does good by doing things fairly, while an anti-hero takes up the mask of villian to help others. In general Hero's someone that others consider as hero while an anti-hero is somone that others don't consider as a hero until he accomplishes his/her duty(or sometimes they still think about him/her as a villian).

2009-08-06, 01:01	Link #76
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	So it's DEEN again... well it may turn out decent like the TV series was... just decent.

2009-08-06, 01:02	Link #77
Kimiko Khan reality has no meaning Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: somewhere within the dark chaos that is my mind Age: 33	i'm hoping they get the same voice actors __________________

2009-08-06, 01:07	Link #78
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Still tousand times better than the non-existent Tsukihime anime... So if we can take all that as a confirmation then how do you think it's going to start? "In medias res"? So we skip out a great part and jump start to the scene just before the finale for Rider-Shinji? With that we only have 2 "arcs" The caster arc and the Gilgamesh-Archer arc. If they finnish it in one (quite long) movie then my hopes about a HF animation remains...

2009-08-06, 01:10	Link #79
Kimiko Khan reality has no meaning Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: somewhere within the dark chaos that is my mind Age: 33	i would hope they broke it up a bit and that they started form the beginning since it changes rather quickly about when they fight berserker for the first time is the biggest change though the first change is when saber goes to attack archer __________________

2009-08-06, 01:26	Link #80
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Oh, right...I forgot to include it.Well, you're right the berserker fight was intense. But they could shorten the whole Rider part into the the last scene. I need no "Shinji keikaku" or Shirou vs Rider scenes. They can even shorten the caster scenes to do a full focus on the Archer and Gilgamesh ones.