Toradora! - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Texas84]

I made the mistake of watching Clannad AS 20 and this back-to-back so now I'm a mess. I'm so glad they didn't end it with her at the bottom of the hill.

[yuki87]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

wait a second, why does everyone say taiga slipping down the hill = not plausible? The slope looked somewhat steep to me, and if anything, it's very possible for her to slip, hit her head on one of the trees and get knocked out. What is there not to believe? I mean, sure the timing is a bit iffy, and the fact that no one realized at that point to look down in that area when they noticed she was gone is a bit meh, but still, it's definitely possible for her to slip and get hurt.

I agree that the slope is steep and she fell a long ways down so her getting injured is very plausible. What I didn't find believable and it might be due to the pov we are given is that no one notices the bent over fence or trail she left behind when she went tumbling down the hill. I mean they noticed that she was gone, I just found it strange they didn't immediately put two and two together.

[Master Chibi]

Why don't we argue about how convient it was for the hairpin to shine in the middle of the night during a damn blizzard?

What about the fact that Kushieda got punched so hard that the hairpin was ripped from her hair and landed FIFTY FEET AWAY from the fight?

Shit.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Why don't we argue about how convient it was for the hairpin to shine in the middle of the night during a damn blizzard?

What about the fact that Kushieda got punched so hard that the hairpin was ripped from her hair and landed FIFTY FEET AWAY from the fight?

Shit.

hairpin shining was for us viewers to see, i don't think it would actually shine like that...

as for getting punched so hard and the thing flying 50 feet, well the wind carried it

[Master Chibi]

no, it definitely shone so that takasu could see it

[Raiga]

It shone with the unstoppable power of RABU RABU. D:<

[DragoonKain3]

And speaking of facial expressions, as a shipper, I particularly liked this one...



Mainly because Ami only showed her worried expression, not when Minorin or Takasu said they're going after Taiga, but AFTER Yuusaku said he's going with them. Goes hand in hand with her smile in eps 9, of which only appeared after hearing that Yuusaku seemingly chose to go to her villa over student council.

Well, I hope by now everyone knows the main canon coupling (which is to say, been obvious from day one), but that's not stopping me from shipping whatever else is left lol.

[Peanutbutter]

I realised something after watching the episode again.

Why didn't the girls (Ami, Minorin, Kihara, Kashii) noticed the slippers at the front of their room when they came back?

You will expect that when the girls take off their own slippers (since they have to take one step up, one normally will look down where they are leaving their slippers, at least that's how I'll do.), they would have noticed one pair already there, and obviously Taiga should be in the room. Why didn't anyone question that? From my limited understanding of the Japanese culture, you can't go anywhere without slippers and there's different slippers for many occasions.

It's the same reasoning why the guys are so quick at grabbing their slippers and slipping into the closet. Because it will be obvious having so many pairs of slippers there.

From the girls' conversation, it's obvious Kihara, Kashii and Minorin didn't noticed that since they were asking at different points where Taiga was, could she be at the guys' room etc etc.

Ami, on the other hand, was seen taking a look at the closet where Taiga's towel was. This brings me to my second main question.

Did she spotted the extra pair of slippers belonging to Taiga, suspected Taiga was in the closet and decided to taunt Minorin verbally while deciding to let Taiga hear everything? Maybe she was trying to force Minorin to reveal that her rejection to Ryuuji was because of Taiga? And obviously, the way Ami put it, is obvious to Taiga and the guys hiding there, that the answer is yes. Did Ami planned all that? After all she's the only one really keeping track of everything thus far, except Minorin's POV, which she is so pissed off about because she failed to hear it.

[DragoZERO]

10/10 this time. Awesome episode. Classic use of the hiding in the closet to speed a long Ryuuji's development and then the unintended confession at the end! I am afraid my Ami x Ryuuji ending won't happen, too bad. I hope her feelings for him are revealed at least.

I have a feeling we will get a Tora x Dora ending after all. As cheesy as it is. But it doesn't feel forced or anything.

Also, that ending was done perfectly. Quite a few series have botched up the end of episodes with a poorly chosen song or incorrect timing. This time is was perfect.

This series is awesome.

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

This episode was so fucking delicious.

Every god damn thing hit the fan at full force, man oh man what a rush this episode was.

Spoiler for Big Image:

That face is fantastic, that's honest to god anger in her face, her disgust of Minori here is practically BLEEDING off and forming puddles on the floor.

Soooo good.

This show is so god damn fucking good.

That was a scary face and it really did show her disgust for Minorin over what she is doing to Ryuuji.

[typhonsentra]

Yeah I got that impression too PeanutButter, she probably knew Taiga was hiding (I caught that split second glance at the end of her scene before they left the room). Her reason for wanting Taiga to hear it is still up for debate. I think that most of her actions are motivated by self-interest but in this particular case I feel like her intention was to help Taiga come to terms with her feelings by having her hear that Minori does care for Ryuuji. This would force her to face her feelings again.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Yeah I got that impression too PeanutButter, she probably knew Taiga was hiding (I caught that split second glance at the end of her scene before they left the room). Her reason for wanting Taiga to hear it is still up for debate. I think that most of her actions are motivated by self-interest but in this particular case I feel like her intention was to help Taiga come to terms with her feelings by having her hear that Minori does care for Ryuuji. This would force her to face her feelings again.

what angers me most about her is how she wants everyone else to rip of their masks, when she's the one truly holding back from flat out telling ryuuji that she loves him too, and that she wants a chance...she drops the hint a few times, and other times, she says it when he's not paying attention and then passes it off like it's nothing...it's frustrating to me as an ami X ryuuji supporter (not shipper) because i feel she's a great character

[Kylaran]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

You're right, it's gotta be the third option. If it's the fourth and Taiga told him how she felt I doubt he'd go out of his way to push Minori and Ryuuji together. Besides that, he'd be able to tell right away why Minori rejected Ryuuji.

I actually think there is a bit of ambiguity as to what happened between Aisaka and Kitamura, and the extent of knowledge that Kitamura has. Aisaka blushes during her conversation with Takasu about how she met with Kitamura over break. Neither Aisaka nor Kitamura mentions the meeting to Takasu; and by the end of the episode we do know that Aisaka likes Takasu. There might be something of note here in this exchange. Namely, whether or not Kitamura is actually debating to support Takasu and Minori or if, perhaps, Aisaka told him of her plans to be independent from Takasu (because of her consideration for his feelings toward Kushieda).

Another thing I just thought of, isn't it weird that he withheld this secret from his friends for over a year but so freely revealed it when given the opportunity?

I don't think this is so rare; I have a friend that didn't tell a single person he liked this one girl until he actually confessed to her and they started going out. I think it fits Takasu's personality.

[roan]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

what angers me most about her is how she wants everyone else to rip of their masks, when she's the one truly holding back from flat out telling ryuuji that she loves him too, and that she wants a chance...she drops the hint a few times, and other times, she says it when he's not paying attention and then passes it off like it's nothing...it's frustrating to me as an ami X ryuuji supporter (not shipper) because i feel she's a great character

If this was gambling

Minori's playing it safe. She's passing up chances and not wagering anything because she doesn't want to lose any of her chips. Reasonable and safe that's not going to lead to much in the long term.

Taiga's doing all-or-nothing. Dangerous.

Finally, there's Ami. She wants to enter the game, but she doesn't and chooses to guide it as an observer. She's comes close a few times at almost entering by sending a couple of SOS signs but she instantly retracts them. I don't think this has anything to do with her wearing a mask, but rather, her being scared of being "losing".

What this series at this stage comes down to is how strong the feelings of each of the girls are in accomplishing their own goals. And Ami sort of.....

[roan]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I am so glad someone else noticed this weird Kitamura moment (There's so many moments in this episode I keep thinking about but I keep forgetting about them when I come on the boards), I keep trying to make sense of which angle shocked him:

- He's surprised that he didn't know his friend as well as he thought.
- That he likes Minori in particular.

Is this shocked look described at all in the book or is this an anime original?

From Kitamura's perspective (which is clearly in volume 6), he's known all this time that while Taiga was supposed to be confessing to him, she was really confessing to Ryuuji back in volume 1 or episode 2. And throughout the series, he's been thinking that the two were a couple that didn't realize it.

Then, he sees Taiga looking depressed on New Year's and praying to him, notices the distance between Ryuuji and Taiga in episode 20, hears about Ryuuji's crush on Minori and him getting turned down on Christmas Eve, and goes....

Oh.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by roan

From Kitamura's perspective (which is clearly in volume 6), he's known all this time that while Taiga was supposed to be confessing to him, she was really confessing to Ryuuji back in volume 1 or episode 2. And throughout the series, he's been thinking that the two were a couple that didn't realize it.

Then, he sees Taiga looking depressed on New Year's and praying to him, notices the distance between Ryuuji and Taiga in episode 20, hears about Ryuuji's crush on Minori and him getting turned down on Christmas Eve, and goes....

Oh.

But if he knows about Taiga's feelings shouldn't he be able to also venture a guess as to why Minori would reject him?

[roan]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

But if he knows about Taiga's feelings shouldn't he be able to also venture a guess as to why Minori would reject him?

He probably had a good but faint idea at the time, but it's not his place to say and he wasn't 100% sure either. The main shock for him at that point was that Ryuuji didn't say his feelings were with Taiga. He's also a nutjob.

Spoiler:

Plus, the cutout conversation with Ryuuji and Kitamura after rescuing Taiga pretty much confirmed everything that he'd been thinking.

Actually, I take back it back. It might work, but now that I think about it, it might be this.

Kitamura was under the assumption that Taiga and Ryuuji were already a couple that were unaware of being a couple. Then, Kitamura sees Taiga praying to him, the God of Broken Hearts. Kitamura also notices some uncomfortable distance between him and Taiga. So his conclusion up until now might have been that Ryuuji and Taiga broke up.

But out of nowhere, Ryuuji talks about having a crush on Minori and getting rejected by her on Christmas Eve. Which raised question marks?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

But if he knows about Taiga's feelings shouldn't he be able to also venture a guess as to why Minori would reject him?

Kitamura is almost the Tenma Tsukamoto of men... he doesn't noticed how Kihara is behind him, even Ami called him thickhead.

Kitamura is still in love of Sumire.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Yeah I got that impression too PeanutButter, she probably knew Taiga was hiding (I caught that split second glance at the end of her scene before they left the room). Her reason for wanting Taiga to hear it is still up for debate. I think that most of her actions are motivated by self-interest but in this particular case I feel like her intention was to help Taiga come to terms with her feelings by having her hear that Minori does care for Ryuuji. This would force her to face her feelings again.

The towel that was next to the closet door is what really gave it away I think.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

The towel that was next to the closet door is what really gave it away I think.

eh if i were ami, i'd still wander why taiga would "hide" in the closet...idk i just feel like we're reading too much into it, but i'd hvae to go back to the episode to see for myself the exact details and when she looked over at the closet etc.

man they're really doing a good job with this series, despite the fact that ryuuji most likely won't end up with my favorite girl, Ami. I really hope they don't screw up the ending/last episode...that last episode can either propel/sustain this anime as one of my favorites/one of the better animes ever made or can easily ruin it and have people remember it as a mediocre series...

the ending has such a big impact >.<, i really hope they don't screw it up!

[Fran~]

If Ami would know that, she would go to the closet and BAM!.
Ami is already pissed off with Ami's words, she is not paying attention if there is any men in the closet.