Bleach Episode 299 Discussion Thread

[Fran~]

So, Misaki could be a demon?

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Gin

That's what I'm assuming, I don't remember anyone ever saying that you lose your hollow powers when you go to Hell anyways though so idk why it even matters.

Point taken. But as Shrieker showed us, while hollow may not necessarily lose their powers/abilities after going to hell and becoming sinners, they do lose something in their spiritual energy that prevents them from being tracked and identified as hollow.

So I'm left wondering if the two fallen espada's spiritual energy has already undergone such a change or if the change doesn't occur until after they've officially converted (and put on some chains). This leads me to the next question I hope the movie answers. Why do some hollows like Shriker get to retain their monster-like appearances and powers while most other hollow sentenced to hell seem to revert back to their human forms? I bet it has something to do with Shuren, but it'll be nice to know for sure.

Btw, Ichigo won't turn out to be part demon. Because such a revelation would actually be important to the main canon and therefore, isn't something likely to be revealed in a movie before it's revealed in the manga (or the anime for that matter). Besides, call me gullible, but when Kubo had Isshin make his grand appearance immediately after Aizen tells Ichigo he's both "a human and a--", I believe that was Kubo's attempt to dramatically tell us "shinigami". Especially after Ichigo goes onto say "the answer appeared before my very eyes". I don't think it was some attempt by Kubo to mislead us in order to hide the fact that he's really part demon.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by sayde

Point taken. But as Shrieker showed us, while hollow may not necessarily lose their powers/abilities after going to hell and becoming sinners, they do lose something in their spiritual energy that prevents them from being tracked and identified as hollow.

So I'm left wondering if the two fallen espada's spiritual energy has already undergone such a change or if the change doesn't occur until after they've officially converted (and put on some chains). This leads me to the next question I hope the movie answers. Why do some hollows like Shriker get to retain their monster-like appearances and powers while most other hollow sentenced to hell seem to revert back to their human forms? I bet it has something to do with Shuren, but it'll be nice to know for sure.

Btw, Ichigo won't turn out to be part demon. Because such a revelation would actually be important to the main canon and therefore, isn't something likely to be revealed in a movie before it's revealed in the manga (or the anime for that matter). Besides, call me gullible, but when Kubo had Isshin make his grand appearance immediately after Aizen tells Ichigo he's both "a human and a--", I believe that was Kubo's attempt to dramatically tell us "shinigami". Especially after Ichigo goes onto say "the answer appeared before my very eyes". I don't think it was some attempt by Kubo to mislead us in order to hide the fact that he's really part demon.

*Smiles at the stuff in bold*
Is that so Sayde not to get in your way or anything, but Ichigo seemed a little demon like to begins with. I don't know exactly what you mean by part maybe you mean similar to Naruto

___________
I think the first two paragraphs are correct it would only make sense for this to happen. It only makes sense Syzael and Aerioneirro still kept there appearance

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by sayde

Btw, Ichigo won't turn out to be part demon. Because such a revelation would actually be important to the main canon and therefore, isn't something likely to be revealed in a movie before it's revealed in the manga (or the anime for that matter). Besides, call me gullible, but when Kubo had Isshin make his grand appearance immediately after Aizen tells Ichigo he's both "a human and a--", I believe that was Kubo's attempt to dramatically tell us "shinigami". Especially after Ichigo goes onto say "the answer appeared before my very eyes". I don't think it was some attempt by Kubo to mislead us in order to hide the fact that he's really part demon.

I disagree. There is nothing that officially states that. There's more to a franchise than one part.

For all you know, that might be the whole purpose of Kubo making the Hell Arc into a movie rather than a story arc. He might not have time to explore that aspect of Ichigo in the manga (similar to the appearances of the Zanpakuto spirits)

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

I disagree. There is nothing that officially states that. There's more to a franchise than one part.

For all you know, that might be the whole purpose of Kubo making the Hell Arc into a movie rather than a story arc. He might not have time to explore that aspect of Ichigo in the manga (similar to the appearances of the Zanpakuto spirits)

But it would be best for the manga to explore Ichigo in that depths I mean his hollow seems to be most interesting and most creepy, but I dissagree with it happening in the manga before the movie. Plus sources say the movie came out already

[Gin]

@ t-dubs
I said everyone better be on their best behavior. You are clearly not trying very hard.

@sayde
since Kubo made the Hell chapter 'imaginary chapter #1' I think its possible for Ichigo's lineage being brought up in the movie, but we just have to remember that its not canon and is therefore completely irrelevant.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

But it would be best for the manga to explore Ichigo in that depths I mean his hollow seems to be most interesting and most creepy, but I dissagree with it happening in the manga before the movie. Plus sources say the movie came out already

Well if Ichigo's demon half isn't important to the events happening in the manga, or it would just take up too many chapters, it wouldn't be included.

Originally Posted by Gin

@ t-dubs
I said everyone better be on their best behavior. You are clearly not trying very hard.

Listen, man. If you think my thoughts an opinions aren't valid or you disagree with them that strongly, then say so. Put up your side of the story then. If not, put a cork in it. That's what discussions are for. Got it?

[Gin]

I was just hoping that we could avoid this argument again, since its obvious that no one is going to change their mind on the subject, but if you want to start the 'debate' up again, then go ahead.

[Thewanderer]

There's no debate, Gin. I'm merely pointing something out. If I don't, no one else will.

Unless you'd be so kind.

[Gin]

What should I point out? That filler is not canon? That movies aren't canon? That you get really mad when people say something isn't canon?

Something can still be enjoyable, even though its not canon. Idk why you make such a big fuss whenever somebody uses the word filler.

[secretzfan]

This movie may not be cannon , but the concept can be

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Gin

What should I point out? That filler is not canon? That movies aren't canon? That you get really mad when people say something isn't canon?

Maybe because of the misuse of the word. There are some filler in the manga. There are some canon anime originals(mostly only canon to the anime, but my point still stands)

Originally Posted by Gin

Something can still be enjoyable, even though its not canon. Idk why you make such a big fuss whenever somebody uses the word filler.

Maybe, maybe not. But it don't have anything to do with this topic. I'm pointing out that we don't know what's canon and what's not at this point. It's illogical to assume anything too. The last half of this episode was in the latest manga chapter(well a side-story of it at least), so even those who religiously claim that manga=canon may think twice about it right now.

I personally don't see the hell arc/movie/chapter/episode as canon yet, but I'm keeping an open mind about it. Yes there are glaring inconsistencies already, but they might be explained, wrote out, or something eventually. I'm not counting on it, but I still consider it a possibility.

Originally Posted by secretzfan

This movie may not be cannon , but the concept can be

This ^

Maybe my theory of Ichigo being revealed to be a demon won't be canon if it turns out to be true, but Ichigo actually being a demon might still be true regardless. This is all considering hypothetically that my theory is true though, of course.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Maybe my theory of Ichigo being revealed to be a demon won't be canon if it turns out to be true, but Ichigo actually being a demon might still be true regardless. This is all considering hypothetically that my theory is true though, of course.

Well it always can be I heard some talk on the movie all the times and get 40 spoils a day on it and pretty much can say I know this entire movie. So he may be revealed to be one and maybe the cannon would go into some little detail on it especially for Ichigo's hollow sake

[Gin]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Maybe because of the misuse of the word. There are some filler in the manga. There are some canon anime originals(mostly only canon to the anime, but my point still stands)

If its only canon to the anime, then its not canon. (your point just fell down)

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

he last half of this episode was in the latest manga chapter(well a side-story of it at least), so even those who religiously claim that manga=canon may think twice about it right now.

Do you know what Kubo called that chapter?

Imaginary. If you want, we can call this episode and the movie Imaginary canon.

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

I personally don't see the hell arc/movie/chapter/episode as canon yet, but I'm keeping an open mind about it. Yes there are glaring inconsistencies already, but they might be explained, wrote out, or something eventually. I'm not counting on it, but I still consider it a possibility.

I see it as not canon because thats what it is. I'm still keeping an open mind about the quality of the movie, because I did enjoy the Hell chapter and this episode, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend its actually canon just to justify liking it.

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

This ^

You know you're right when you have a towering intellect like secretfan on your side.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Gin

If its only canon to the anime, then its not canon. (your point just fell down)

Anime canon is anime canon. It's canon to the anime. My point stands.

Originally Posted by Gin

Do you know what Kubo called that chapter?

Imaginary. If you want, we can call this episode and the movie Imaginary canon.

Be my guest.

Originally Posted by Gin

I see it as not canon because thats what it is. I'm still keeping an open mind about the quality of the movie, because I did enjoy the Hell chapter and this episode, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend its actually canon just to justify liking it.

No one wants you to pretend anything. But to say it's not canon is a fact is just plain ignorance.

Originally Posted by Gin

You know you're right when you have a towering intellect like secretfan on your side.

[secretzfan]

*Looks at Gin*

You know this doesn't have to necessarily be true, but it can happen. This can still happen in the manga at leat the concept of it

[Gin]

This is what I was talking about t-dubs, we are just repeating ourselves, and I know I sure as hell haven't even considered changing my mind on the matter. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I can sleep soundly at night knowing that you are wrong, and you can sleep moderately well being wrong, but thinking you're right.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

I disagree. There is nothing that officially states that. There's more to a franchise than one part.

For all you know, that might be the whole purpose of Kubo making the Hell Arc into a movie rather than a story arc. He might not have time to explore that aspect of Ichigo in the manga (similar to the appearances of the Zanpakuto spirits)

To be honest, if Kubo feels like revealing Ichigo to be part demon, I think it'd be kind of difficult for Kubo to simply ignore that side of him even exists within the actual canon timeline. It just seems like it'd be way too important of a plot device to leave trapped for eternity within the confines of non-canon material...That is unless Ichigo being part demon can't be used as a plot device and doesn't have anything to do with his lineage. This assumes Kubo pulls some weak and tiresome cliche about every being possessing the potential for evil therefore making everyone "part demon"...

Originally Posted by Gin

@sayde
since Kubo made the Hell chapter 'imaginary chapter #1' I think its possible for Ichigo's lineage being brought up in the movie, but we just have to remember that its not canon and is therefore completely irrelevant.

(cont.)...or unless of course Gin ends up being correct on this one and Kubo really does decide to leave this part of his lineage in a movie never to be brought up again. I can't say I'd bet on it, but I suppose it's definitely "possible". lol

In any case, I predict Ichigo and his perfect hollowfication form have nothing to do with Ichigo's lineage or him being part-demon (in the traditional Yu-Yu Hakusho sense). Clearly some of you want to believe otherwise. So for now, I'll sit back and wait for the movie to come out. Because there's absolutely no way any of us can prove each other wrong at this point.

*edit*

Originally Posted by Gin

If you want, we can call this episode and the movie Imaginary canon.

Or better yet, the non-canon canon.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Gin

This is what I was talking about t-dubs, we are just repeating ourselves, and I know I sure as hell haven't even considered changing my mind on the matter. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I can sleep soundly at night knowing that you are wrong, and you can sleep moderately well being wrong, but thinking you're right.

Oh Gin, if you weren't so full of yourself, we'd have to take you to the internet hospital to see what's wrong with you.

Originally Posted by sayde

To be honest, if Kubo feels like revealing Ichigo to be part demon, I think it'd be kind of difficult for Kubo to simply ignore that side of him even exists within the actual canon timeline. It just seems like it'd be way too important of a plot device to leave trapped for eternity within the confines of non-canon material...That is unless Ichigo being a part demon can't be used as a plot device and doesn't have anything to do with his lineage. This assumes Kubo pulls some weak and tiresome cliche about every being possessing the potential for evil therefore making everyone "part demon"...

...or unless of course Gin ends up being correct on this one and Kubo really does decide to leave this part of his lineage in a movie never to be brought up again. I can't say I'd bet on it, but I suppose it's definitely "possible". lol

In any case, I'm willing to bet Ichigo and his perfect hollowfication form have nothing to do with Ichigo's lineage of being part-demon (in the traditional Yu-Yu Hakusho sense). Clearly some of you want to believe otherwise. So for now, I'll sit back and wait for the movie to come out. Because there's absolutely no way any of us can prove each other wrong at this point.

Perhaps you're right. It could be a big plot point. But Kubo has expressed his interest in a Hell arc before. Maybe the story direction can't fit it in, though(till Bleach 2?)

But I agree that Ichigo's hollow form is just that - a hollow form. But the possibility is still there, especially stronger after the mysterious Hell mooks' conversation at the end of the episode.

[Gin]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Oh Gin, if you weren't so full of yourself, we'd have to take you to the internet hospital to see what's wrong with you. :p

Its only arrogance if you're wrong. ;)