Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~

[MonkeyBrains]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler for some Japanese reaction:

From a quick look, it seems as if the 2channellers are mostly disgusted too. Bad script. A psychologically realistic series changes suddenly. Finish an oil painting so quickly. Would have been a nice ending with Erisu becoming independent and Hiroki proposing to Kiri. Throwing the unrelated Tomoko story in. Plus some people saying it made sense. Moon Phase Notes amused and unimpressed.

Spoiler:

Interesting. "psychologically realistic series changes suddenly. Finish an oil painting so quickly." That first comment has been my feeling about why I liked the series, particularly the first half...

As to the second half of that comment, it reminds me of the game. I prefer the Elis ending in the game, because his painting made more sense, and had better lead up. Then again, the game and anime are so dramatically different, it is okay that it ended differently. But it does remind me of an annoying thing about this ending.

Earlier in the series, there were comments about how Hiroki never draws portraits, then you see his portrait of Kiri, and it was kind of like the old adage - if you show a gun in Act 1, someone had better get shot in Act 3. If he was going to paint again, it would've made more sense if it had been a portrait, considering that early build up (not to mention Elis doing a portrait of Hiroki).

But from what I'm reading, I think the point of the ending is "PSYCHE!" Not really that satisfying. Maybe it plays out better when I see the sub.

[npal]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I wonder if that sort of feedback has impact though... we seem to have been through a year of a number of series where the writers competed to see who could screw good stories deeper into the compost.

The feedback has impact? Who knows. I'm waiting for the next major harem-type title, then I can judge I'm still waiting to see whether the Shuffle feedback had any impact

[MonkeyBrains]

There's no such thing as bad publicity. I think the only feedback is ratings and money. If the ratings are high and people buy the merchandise, there will be imitators.

I have no idea how Canvas2 fits into all that though. Don't know the ratings, and the merchandise machine is nowhere near as prolific as Shuffle or Da Capo (yet).

[giu_2]

Originally Posted by Seravy

re: ep24

complete and utter ass. it's been a while since an ending to a series i liked completely disgusted me. i had a bad feeling things weren't going to end well when eps 23 showed no hints at all of a satisfactory resolution on the horizon, but i wasn't expecting this trainwreck. horrible horrible ending.

i agree, the ending wasnt good..it was almost discusting ;P
hiroki and elis (brother-sister), it should have been hiroki and kiri ffs

[npal]

Eh, they're not THAT closely related

Not that this ever stopped people
Oh well, I need to get my hands on the subs.

[giu_2]

Originally Posted by npal

Eh, they're not THAT closely related

Not that this ever stopped people
Oh well, I need to get my hands on the subs.

i tought they were cousins..

[Vexx]

Cousins (especially 2nd+ cousins) are a-ok in most countries... even 1st cousins are "legally" a-ok in many places. Socially/morally the acceptance varies dramatically but "eww" is globally a minority view. Genetically (which should be the only real metric), it is statistically hardly more a problem than two complete familial strangers.

In small communities with little outside contact (namely , most of the world) it is pretty difficult NOT to be some sort of cousin of any available possible partners and you probably grew up with them anyway. This "eww" factor I keep seeing in forum posts is a purely irrational but personal choice. Feel free to "eww" but also realize it is just recently invented mostly Industrialized era baggage. 20-somethings marrying late teens being "eww" is a novel invention of the last few decades... mostly injected to ensure young adults finish their education from what I can surmise.

As far as the "growing up together" problem... kids in small towns usually grow up together and marry each other --- its the anomoly of large cities and the industrial age that fractured that. Anecdote: my grandmother remembers my grandfather (no close relation) when they were in kindergarten and he'd dab her hair in the inkwell and try to write with it. I've known my wife really since junior high (though I didn't pay any attention to her til senior year in high school when I was struck with an "omigod she's cute" bolt). Of course, she's japanese stock and I'm "31 flavors" European - less than 10,000 generations removed from each other if I remember (a blip on the gene clock).

Canvas 2 specific comments (and I'll ask again for people to go back and spoiler-fix their posts, eh?):

Spoiler:

Nonetheless .... the writers get an A- for series buildup and a C- for that climax transition, though I will say that ep 22 had a lot of nonverbal clues about the impending finale. I'm wondering if live actors could have pulled this off better since facial expressions are not always the forte of cheaply animated characters.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by npal

The feedback has impact? Who knows. I'm waiting for the next major harem-type title, then I can judge I'm still waiting to see whether the Shuffle feedback had any impact

Well, in fairness, it'll probably take a while for any impact to work it's way down the the production pipe.

[AvatarST]

Well, personally, I enjoyed Shuffle a lot throughout, much like this. Shuffle just went meh in episode 21 in that scene, and maybe in the end of the Asa arc (although the Asa arc in the game wasn't that good to begin with, I still think her justification not to use magic was meh), and Canvas 2 went a bit crazy at the end, but both shows were really enjoyable as whole, and I'd recommend both, for the lovely characters and the amount of attention and development they got...plus it was fun as well...

I still think it's a pity when a show is so good all the way and then a piece of bad writing screws the overall plot, but well, what can you do...

[npal]

Well, as far as Shuffle is concerned, I really hope they take the time to fix ep 21-24 in the DVDs. If they do that, maybe Canvas 2 will also be fixed somehow (if DVDs are released).

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Cousins (especially 2nd+ cousins) are a-ok in most countries... even 1st cousins are "legally" a-ok in many places. Socially/morally the acceptance varies dramatically but "eww" is globally a minority view. Genetically (which should be the only real metric), it is statistically hardly more a problem than two complete familial strangers.

Spoiler for Why do I seem to be the only person still spoilering this?:

I'm going to freely admit I'm not sourcing myself right now (My college text on this subject is at home and is NOT an indepth genetics book but a biology book): I believe that inbreeding is not (genetically) a problem unless it is occuring repeatedly.
Also I should point out that incest is a social term and inbreeding is the scientific one. Incest is nominally a religious/societal taboo (in that it depends somewhat on your religion. I'm hardly a religious expert, so I can't really say if there are ones where it's okay, I only know it's not in mine), like most taboos it exists for a reason (the problems with inbreeding); however, there is a delineation between the taboo and genetic problems.
Interestingly, there is a large body of work that suggests that humans actually develop (whether it's social or psychological is unknown, and their are some glaring contradictions in some areas of the world) little interest in opposite sex people they are raised with, contrary to popular anime myth. You can look up the Westermark Effect to learn more about it: Wiki entry.

It's interesting that they ended up in France, where incestuous relations are (I believe) legal as long as they aren't between a minor and an adult.

[Vexx]

eh... I asked for better spoilering a number of posts ago, but few people seem to be paying attention, so I gave up...

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by npal

Well, as far as Shuffle is concerned, I really hope they take the time to fix ep 21-24 in the DVDs. If they do that, maybe Canvas 2 will also be fixed somehow (if DVDs are released).

If they do fix it, it will probably just be the animation (which was rather spotty throughout the series).
I'm kind of surprised there aren't already Canvas DVDs out, has anyone actually checked?

[npal]

Well, I was kinda hoping they'd include some more scenes if needed (especially in Kaede's and Asa's arc), so that it makes sense and doesn't ruin the whole plot. They don't need to rewrite anything, just add stuff to make the transition better or give reason to irrational thoughts (see Asa's reason for not using magic). And they could do that with Canvas, too. IF they're getting ANY feedback at all that is.

[Vexx]

I know it *occasionally* happens that a scene will be recut/reworked (with new voice work) but their butts have to be on fire from the flames ... its too bad we'll have to wait and see on Shuffle! (On Tsukuyomi, they fixed all the "still frame because the animation shop screwed up so bad" stuff and the detail work, but none of the audio was changed that I could tell).

The Canvas people *really* ought to take a look and see if there's even a few seconds here or there they could tweak to provide a bit of foreshadowing.
Even a couple of "thought balloon" voice-over lines would do it.

[npal]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I know it *occasionally* happens that a scene will be recut/reworked (with new voice work) but their butts have to be on fire from the flames ... its too bad we'll have to wait and see on Shuffle! (On Tsukuyomi, they fixed all the "still frame because the animation shop screwed up so bad" stuff and the detail work, but none of the audio was changed that I could tell).

The Canvas people *really* ought to take a look and see if there's even a few seconds here or there they could tweak to provide a bit of foreshadowing.
Even a couple of "thought balloon" voice-over lines would do it.

Well, they do specials in DVDs, so I thought maybe they won't make any specials and add something.

Koi Koi 7 (the greatest hit of all times, I know ) added ecchi content in its DVD episodes. Damn, one episode has 1-2 whole minutes of extra fanservice/ecchi content. If Koi Koi 7 can do that, why not something better, like Canvas or Shuffle?

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by npal

Well, they do specials in DVDs, so I thought maybe they won't make any specials and add something.

Koi Koi 7 (the greatest hit of all times, I know ) added ecchi content in its DVD episodes. Damn, one episode has 1-2 whole minutes of extra fanservice/ecchi content. If Koi Koi 7 can do that, why not something better, like Canvas or Shuffle?

In that case, I would imagine those scenes were already existing and were simply added back into the anime (similar to the first season of Girls Bravo, where they removed the ever present steam).

[npal]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

In that case, I would imagine those scenes were already existing and were simply added back into the anime (similar to the first season of Girls Bravo, where they removed the ever present steam).

Eh... Can I pray then that essential Shuffle/Canvas content was cut out due to whatever restrictions but it will be put in the DVDs?

[rooboy]

Well, A), you didn't even see the Canvas episode yet.

B) No idea. It might exist, but if it's that important to the plot I imagine it would have aired. The only time I can remember plot-important time missing from the aired episode was Wind (I think it was wind) which was missing four episodes (including one of the more important ones in the entire series). Other than that, I imagine not much is changing. Though, of course, there are pleasant surprises that just happen occasionally.

Negima!, Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, and Girls Bravo had some of the most extensive changes done post production, but they were all essentially art changes. No plot details were changed.

Spoiler for I refuse to stop using spoiler tags until it's subbed :):

While they could maybe fix the "problem" with Canvas just by including a few changes to make it clear that the awkward silences between Hiroki and Elis are caused because he's attracted to her (maybe even just including a few Hiroki blushing scenes when they're talking), I don't know that that would really fix the "problem" with Shuffle! And, as Vexx also noted, changes to plot are very uncommon at this point. At some point I suppose they could rerelease it (a la the new Kanon series) and "fix" it then, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Vexx]

I know they do rework of animation having seen DVD vs broadcast comparisons .... including camera angle changes (entire redraw), focus and gamma, detail, etc. I know Kamichu! has extra bits in the DVD (in addition to the extra episodes). But.... it depends on whether the idiots are listening to the reactions.
The gritty purpose of anime is to advertise merchandise (CDs, DVDs, toys, manga, bricbrac) --- if you piss off the buyers too much, you won't sell the product.