Log Horizon S2 - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[teja208]

Originally Posted by aohige

The novel is only 1 episode ahead of the anime at this point.
Pretty sure the actual Eastal/Westelande war is going to be focus of the third phase.
Novel 11-15 and anime season 3.

Hopefully NHK will come back to Log Horizon in 2 years or so when there may be enough volumes to animate season 3.

Mamare plans to end the series with 15th volume, so it's perfect for one more season.

Yeah it's quite impressive that anime managed to catch up with the weekly web chapters.

About the total no. of vol. of LN, I'm not sure anymore whether Mamare's sticking with his original plan at this point. Things change all the time. For example, I don't think he originally intended to turn Kanami Go East (formerly a side story) into vol. 9.

I just want to be certain about one thing in this episode, so Rank 3 intelligent lifeforms are higher than Rank 2 or is it the other way?

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by aohige

Yes, the fragments Shiroe and Akatsuki gave away to the waves on the moon were implied to be empathiums.

Okay, no wonder some of the Harvesters got stronger because of it!

On the other hand, Eins' proposal of redistributing wealth might not be a better idea at all as some of the leechers are wanting to go back to the real world. If Shiroe finds the answer from the Observers, then they'll have a change of returning to reality!

[Random14]

Ooh, lots of nice new information. I was afraid they would delay Shiroe talking about the letter until the next episode or something like that. Wonder if/when he'll share this with the rest of the Round Table. Though the senior members of Log Horizon is fine for now, even Tetra is completely serious. And yay, Nyanta is reassured by Serara's enthusiasm.

And at last more clues about how they ended up there, with a clear third faction/people- Adventurers, Landers, now Navigators. If they ever make contact with the moon, wonder what kind of "community" is up there. Though still sounds like none of them is quite in control with the still weird and changing game rules.

Interested in how the Issac focus will turn out next week with his new fan. Heh, Krusty got the princess, now Issac has to deal with the little brother.

[Avrorrange]

Aliens?Seriously,WTF?!WTF did I just watch?This was like a gigantic cop-out.

[Kirke]

Originally Posted by teja208

Yeah it's quite impressive that anime managed to catch up with the weekly web chapters.

About the total no. of vol. of LN, I'm not sure anymore whether Mamare's sticking with his original plan at this point. Things change all the time. For example, I don't think he originally intended to turn Kanami Go East (formerly a side story) into vol. 9.

I just want to be certain about one thing in this episode, so Rank 3 intelligent lifeforms are higher than Rank 2 or is it the other way?

Rank 3 is higher than rank 2.

[nghiabrucelee]

Get ready for the war, suckers!
I hope ss3 will be released in at least 2 years and IG or Madhouse will do it

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Aliens?Seriously,WTF?!WTF did I just watch?This was like a gigantic cop-out.

Aliens are actually a more reasonable explanation compared to "Secret organization or the government ninja kidnapping hundreds of thousands of players to strap them to VR machines because REASONS". Magic is out of the question seeing how a very vocal part of the readers and anime watchers are very opinionated against MAGIC.

[Tenzen12]

What some vocal group says doesn't matter on what kind of plot LH will have. Sure Mamare takes suggestions from audience, but I doubt he would just change whole plot line just to accommodate them.

That said adventurers in matter of fact are aliens theirself, so concept of another race is hardly surprising. Anyway in this case there is no difference between magic and alien "science" (if they are calling it that way)

[Ickarium]

Also note that 'aliens' was simply one of the things listed. Shiroe mentioned people from another world as well. I believe that the literal translation (or so I can tell from Akebi on my Android) was dimensional person and space person, and such. He was tossing out basic ideas on what they could be.

I personally lean more towards another dimension rather than aliens from space, but hey, who knows.

[Boukenxha]

It is a little confusing as the term Shiroe used was "Uchuujin" which means outer space beings and in most cases refer to something on a planetary or galactic scale that wouldn't make a lot of sense in the closed game world of Elder Tales. However, in the context that the Navigators are an unknown race residing on the Moon (server), it is actually not wrong to call them "Uchuujin" or "Aliens".

[Yan3242]

So this empathions is "memory"?, adventurer hold rank 3 in INT because they are human, have emotion and stuff and when they die, part of this left and goes to the moon (mother server?), alien want more because it make them stronger, so they start going aggresive (harvester)? This whole war thing might be caused by those genius/harvester, afterall more adventurer dead mean more empathions for them.

"May your warm empathions light your future"..."may your warm memory light your future"... Yeah sounds fitting for me.

Now that things suddenly went sci-fi, am i the only who imagine when shirou and gang reach moon, they will encounter a temple with a giant ring portal inside ala stargate?

[Tenzen12]

Well there is always small possiblity that with right timing the Fairy rings could do job...

[Estavali]

The first thing that came to me about the Travelers is how similar they might be to MadoMagi's Incubators. Only that the former are like hunter-gatherers while the latter sow and reap their fruits.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Estavali

The first thing that came to me about the Travelers is how similar they might be to MadoMagi's Incubators. Only that the former are like hunter-gatherers while the latter sow and reap their fruits.

First thing I thought of these Travellers is this. Geez, if it wasn't enough, you gave Kyubey EMOTIONS!

But really, what's the difference between a Rank 2 and Rank 3 and Rank 1? Rank 3 = capable of critical thinking + will? Rank 2 = capable of critical thinking; Rank 1 = no critical thinking? Does it mean that an octopus would be Rank 2?

[Gatmar]

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

First thing I thought of these Travellers is this. Geez, if it wasn't enough, you gave Kyubey EMOTIONS!

But really, what's the difference between a Rank 2 and Rank 3 and Rank 1? Rank 3 = capable of critical thinking + will? Rank 2 = capable of critical thinking; Rank 1 = no critical thinking? Does it mean that an octopus would be Rank 2?

As i understand it there using the Animal Sentience Level Rank. it is a kind of measuring units used to measure the sentience level of a species as whole

Rank 1: Are Species which follow basic Natural instincts..Eating, sleeping ,,, breeding etc...

Rank 2: Are Species which have semi-sentience capabilities...meaning while at there nature they are still following basic natural instincts....they have enough self aware of there surronding to adapt and improvise ideas...creativity and limited communication and thinking skills......Genius are considered rank 2 cause while they have enough to intelligence to adapt and think outside of the box...they are still bound to there very basic nature of there existence...which is to gather empathium rather than think indipendatly and individually..

Rank 3: Are Species which have overcome there basic instincts and natural way of life in such a way that they are able to change and adapt there surrounding for their own needs rather for what nature needs....humans are ranked in this level cause we have different ideas....individuality.....Ability to mold and shape nature itself...to suit us....but act illogically.....act differently rather what we should nature....face fear when we run.....help others and risk our life's even when it is insane....create ideas that are new and that go beyond what was expected before....all of things which very discard natural in-stinks as a whole

There is also a hypothetical Rank 4: which is the ranking of species that goes beyond what we define as natural sentience....such as hypothetically....Dimensional...non corporeal.....Elemental.....etc...forms of life or any other sentience we yourself don't know...but it is hypothetical

[Tenzen12]

I would say:
rank 1: animals
rank 2: intelligent but without free will (programmed)
rank 3: intelligent with free will

[Krono]

The interesting question would be where Coppelia falls on the intelligence scale. She's still heavily bound to her nature as a gold farming bot/heal bot, and retains computer-like precision about some things, like counting the number of heals given out. Yet she's clearly self aware, and was fairly poetic in her description of Kanami, and pretty capable of passing as human.

[aohige]

Coppelia's case is quite interesting, as she is nearly identical to origin of the Travellers (Navigators).

Artificial intelligence created to gather resource?
Given a physical form now that it inhibits the adventurer body?
Possibly elevated ranking of intelligent life form as sentient being?
She's like the less advanced form of the same thing.

[FRS]

Lots of new informations and we can see that the serie is heading toward its conclusion.

[Kafriel]

From what I make of it...empathions are converted memories from dead terrans, which also makes it the pure exp penalty that one receives upon death. In that sense, harvesters would be assassins and their goal would be to basically forge a cycle of death and grinding for high-level adventurers (because if you die TOO much you run out of memories to lose...and in game terms, you have 0% exp of a level - they'd also go for the high levels because the exp curve is always exponential so, say, a 10% of a required LV exp is much higher at 90+ than it is at 85+). Do note that the genius monsters were in the seventies range, so they make for decent farming bots...but according to the letter Shiroe got, they shouldn't be harvesting on earth if the adventurers have rights to the planet's resources.

To back this up a bit, the moon has no monsters as a reincarnation temp server and thus, no way to gain exp...unless someone took a magic bag full of exp pots and chugged in the afterlife, but that would be counterproductive.

About the Navi: Roe2 said they live on the moon, so that makes them aliens to terrans. My train of thought on the empathion is flawed in one part: the memories that adventurers lose are those of the real world, so at one point they would merge with their in-game persona, having no actual memories left...at which point they shouldn't be able to produce any more empathion, having a conscience that only remembers of Elder Tale.

This, however, begs the question: what the heck is empathion used for? If the navigators are another form of A.I., they could have been programmed to defragment the adventurers' mixed memories and send them where they...iunno, should be in the first place? Maybe that way, the game world would also go back to normal.

Anyway, there is a LOT of explaining to do on the main plot of this story, with the final pieces coming together if Shiroe finds records of the Alv and realizes the magic behind world fractions...so, until then, speculation tea party for everyone!