AnimeSuki Forums

Dark Night · 2011-12-01, 09:57

Should I admit that Claymore's internal logic when it comes to power levels is broken?

I have a really, really hard time seeing the Ghosts being a problem to Isley, Riful and Luciella, even with Miria and Clare there. Hysteria is supposed to be on that same level. Clare isn't here, and Miria should be keeling over from blood loss and exhaustion, shonen will power and determination be damned. But I will not be surprised if she keeps going on.

Since Yagi is not willing to let some people die (not that I want that, but it's what logically should happen when you are an insect compared to the AO you're facing), I can only hope the rebels will retreat, or get rescued (not on purpose) by Priscilla. Or Clare, though even she wouldn't make a difference without half-awakening. Even so I feel it'd still not be enough, unless of course she got a power-up, and I don't know how I'd feel about that.

Or maybe I missjudged the Abyssal Ones, and they are not the powerhouses I think them to be.

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 10:19

Claymore's logic in regards to powerlevels have been broken ever since Teresa fought Priscilla. Not to mention that extra chapter where she defeats Rosemary. Literally, there is a reason the Teresa vs Priscilla debates often devolve into who is Goku and who is Vegeta.

Gooral · 2011-12-01, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Night

Should I admit that Claymore's internal logic when it comes to power levels is broken?

I have a really, really hard time seeing the Ghosts being a problem to Isley, Riful and Luciella, even with Miria and Clare there. Hysteria is supposed to be on that same level. Clare isn't here, and Miria should be keeling over from blood loss and exhaustion, shonen will power and determination be damned. But I will not be surprised if she keeps going on.

Since Yagi is not willing to let some people die (not that I want that, but it's what logically should happen when you are an insect compared to the AO you're facing), I can only hope the rebels will retreat, or get rescued (not on purpose) by Priscilla. Or Clare, though even she wouldn't make a difference without half-awakening. Even so I feel it'd still not be enough, unless of course she got a power-up, and I don't know how I'd feel about that.

Or maybe I missjudged the Abyssal Ones, and they are not the powerhouses I think them to be.

QFT.

They were escaping from Riful in haste and later (just before Raciella's awakening) Clare said that if Riful spotted her she would be a mince-meat even though she was stronger than Miria at this point. But a week later Miria got a super-duper power up...

@Nixl
Could you elaborate what you mean by "powerlevels have been broken ever since Teresa fought Priscilla"? Do you mean that the power level was so much higher or that there is contradictory information or...? In case someone thinks this will escalate to another TvP debate - you shouldn't be. We should receive chapter shortly and there won't be anyone (especially not me) who would prefer talking about something we've talked about so many times.

Arlenis · 2011-12-01, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by yononaka

Spoiler for 2ch sketches, in spoiler tags for size:

Oh,...oh no. That isn't elegant at all.... If this keeps up, I'm going to have to abandon my love for Hysteria "The Not So Elegant Anymore". I wonder when we'll get an actual spoiler picture of something, ANYthing (Well...besides Miria. I like her but I'm soooo done with/tired of her). I really hope this chapter is "Ass-pull"-free. It's bad enough Miria is proficient in the art of Ass-pulling and Oral Fatality, but we don't need to see that from the other ghosts now do we? Sheesh. I am getting the feeling I am going to weep in a corner (Yet Again) when I see the raw. Speaking of seeing the raw: When oh when can I expect that, loves?

rafael1932 · 2011-12-01, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Night

Should I admit that Claymore's internal logic when it comes to power levels is broken?

Yes it is. Ever since miria has attacked the org the story has become a regular shonen manga. Plus all the characters are acting retarded ( the only good thing is when we see cassandra and roxane back story)

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooral

QFT.

They were escaping from Riful in haste and later (just before Raciella's awakening) Clare said that if Riful spotted her she would be a mince-meat even though she was stronger than Miria at this point. But a week later Miria got a super-duper power up...

@Nixl
Could you elaborate what you mean by "powerlevels have been broken ever since Teresa fought Priscilla"? Do you mean that the power level was so much higher or that there is contradictory information or...? In case someone thinks this will escalate to another TvP debate - you shouldn't be. We should receive chapter shortly and there won't be anyone (especially not me) who would prefer talking about something we've talked about so many times.

Two reasons, one is that the ambiguity of the TvP fight has led to bickering over who is Goku in the equation. Furthemore, almost every discussion of power or strength I remember returned to the TvP fight. The second reason is that I would argue that the extra chapter of Teresa vs Rosemary and Priscilla versus Alicia/Beth have significantly inflated the powerlevels. If the story were to receive another antagonist, to even make a dent in comparison to Teresa or Priscilla the antagonist would have to be ridiculous. This also applies to to the protagonists in a sense as well.

I think Yagi partially dug himself in a hole with the early part of Claymore by making Teresa and Priscilla that powerful. On top of it all, the extra chapter and the Alicia/Beth fight only made it bigger. Honestly, I think the whole reason the ZAOs exist at this point is to fill the Teresa/Priscilla powerlevel void without Claire going super saiyan 4.

Return Clare · 2011-12-01, 12:00

NG Yagi should freaking learn about the gaiden concept, because this whole Miria showcase arc with the freaking newcomers would be done as a freaking gaiden in a normal manga. You cannot freaking remove the main from the equation for a year and expect people to be happy about it. If you've written your main into a corner and need time to figure out your next move, freaking admit it and call it a gaiden instead of screwing with the fans for a year. I freaking can't believe there's still nothing about Clare if these spoilers are true.

Gooral · 2011-12-01, 12:01

Thanks for replying Nixl. Generally I agree with everything you said, I was just curious what exactly you had in mind when you wrote that. "Generally" because at the time volume 5 came out it wasn't established yet just how powerful Priscilla and Teresa were (we didn't know how strong AOs were). Only after Riful said that Priscilla is much stronger than her it started to fall apart and when Prissy obliterated Alicia and Beth in seconds Yagi dug himself into the hole you speak of. If he would stick to the "Riful + Luciella should have chances of defeating Priscilla" I wouldn't see much of a problem but when Priscilla became SSJ4 he burned that bridge and here we are.

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 12:16

In the Witch's Maw arc Priscilla was made out to be close to an AO in status and then it skyrockets after the extra chapter with Teresa. Personally, I think the issue is that Priscilla and Teresa's powerlevel are inherently linked. Both are powerful, yet one is suppose to be stronger, meaning what ever one does reflects on the other. I think the extra chapter with Teresa is when things started to move too quickly. For Teresa to kill an awakened no.2 even if her strength was questionable also means Priscilla is raised an extra level. The fact that Priscilla annihilated Alicia/Beth means that Teresa is also raised a level. Then, we also have Riful's words about Priscilla.

In addition, if Yagi is following a progression of successively stronger antagonists then if we get another antagonist they will potentially have to be more ridiculous than Teresa/Priscilla. Right now we are still just filling in the void between Teresa/Priscilla compared to everyone else with the ZAOs until we finally reach that point. Just consider that Priscilla has cleaned house with Alicia/beth, Riful, Dauf, a legion of hellcats, and the Destroyer without pause and now is possibly going to defeat the ZAOs. The fact that Priscilla did that means Teresa is that level or perhaps even greater. It is a spiral at this point.

It seems like ever since the Witch's Maw Yagi has had to write a revenge story for a heroine(Claire) that has no chance anymore.

Gooral · 2011-12-01, 12:39

Extra scene was shown to us by Yagi after Riful revealed to Clare that Isley defeating Priscilla was a lie and that Priscilla was much stronger. So that's the point where power levels have gone up significantly. But it wasn't until about 100 chapter when things started to go out of hand. Priscilla having a chance of winning against two abyssals was somewhat acceptable but Yagi went well beyond that.

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 12:45

You are right, I switched up the Riful and the Extra chapter. I think it became almost inevitable once Priscilla got wrapped up with Isley and the AOs way back in the Witch's Maw to be honest. Teresa/Priscilla would have been compared to the AOs regardless by that point. A revenge story with Teresa/Priscilla involved I think forced many events to happen in order to make it work.

Newhope · 2011-12-01, 12:49

I've seen the full chapter and Hysterias AB form is hilarious, Roxannes is pretty cool though.

Spoiler for Last page of 121:

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 12:52

Roxanne's form reminds me the Cleopatra movie with the head.

I now dub Hysteria, Hysterical.

Cassandra=Dust Eater technique
Roxanne=Cleopatra?
Hysteria= A flower?

Arlenis · 2011-12-01, 12:59

O.k I actually LIKE Hysteria's form! Oh ...wait..........oh no....I just realized that was Roxanna's form I liked. EWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I hate Hysteria now.

Dj0rel · 2011-12-01, 13:12

I usually refrain from commenting before the chapter gets translated but this raw answered one question that I kept asking myself and yet I kept forgetting to ask for the opinion of others on any forum.

Spoiler for 121 raw:

Elandyll · 2011-12-01, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newhope

I've seen the full chapter and Hysterias AB form is hilarious, Roxannes is pretty cool though.

Spoiler for Last page of 121:

Gotta wonder why the ghosts look so confident, when about to face 3x Abyssals... It's not like they were so hot when confronting Riful or Isley

Will wait for the translation to check the chapter.

Gooral · 2011-12-01, 13:22

I would go further and say that no Claymore was confirmed to be dead in HQ which makes this situation not good IMO. Yagi is afraid to kill anyone at this point it seems. And suddenly characters receive huge power-ups, for example twins couldn't handle Roxanne when she was a Claymore but they could snatch from her a Claymore...
And I agree that Hysteria's awakened form looks ludicrous but Roxanne's isn't much better. All three ZAOs have either hideous or very hideous forms and it shows that Yagi is out of ideas when creating them (it's especially apparent with Hysteria, seriously Yagi? You show us THIS?). Also, it looks for now that Cassandra is the most powerful of the three for now.

Gooral · 2011-12-01, 13:26

The most hilarious thing is that Hysteria doesn't have hands (only wings and rods) so she won't be able to take the sword out, lol.

Edit:
Well, she has upper rods so technically she should be able to pull the sword out by pushing the hilt.

Nixl · 2011-12-01, 13:27

I am not sure about that Gooral, I mean Roxanne always seems to have a plan or some ability up her sleeve. I would not be surprised if her body had some ace to it that Cassandra get's wrecked by. I am going to guess that she absorbs people. Edit: Whoops, missed the "for now" part.

Cassandra's form is good for me, but Hysteria's is pretty lack luster.

Arlenis · 2011-12-01, 13:29

Gooral, I couldn't agree more. I'm REALLY trying to cope...but I'm failing MISerably. I'm so distraught and I'm embarrassed that I even care this much.... These three need to go. Roxanne's form is the best though. I mean...I just keep staring at Hysteria....and I just can't wrap my head around it. WTF was Yagi on when he drew this up?! I'm in rant mode. Not just because of that atrocity named Hysteria, but because of the whole chapter it seems. Cassandra is swooping well though, I do like that.

View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 121 Rating
Perfect 10	9	15.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	8	13.79%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	13	22.41%
7 out of 10 : Good	18	31.03%
6 out of 10 : Average	6	10.34%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	1.72%
4 out of 10 : Poor	1	1.72%
3 out of 10 : Bad	2	3.45%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

2011-12-01, 12:59	Link #94
Arlenis Of Lights Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: The Organization (New York, U.S) Age: 34	O.k I actually LIKE Hysteria's form! Oh ...wait..........oh no....I just realized that was Roxanna's form I liked. EWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I hate Hysteria now. __________________ It's her. The one possessing such a technique of luster, mustering her own Yoki from within and emitting it in an offensive force of illuminating gales; Arlenis of Lights

2011-12-01, 13:12	Link #95
Dj0rel True Believer Join Date: Jun 2008	I usually refrain from commenting before the chapter gets translated but this raw answered one question that I kept asking myself and yet I kept forgetting to ask for the opinion of others on any forum. Spoiler for 121 raw: Namely, "were there any survivors among warriors that got struck down in the initial attack on the revived no1's?" It appears that there were. __________________ Not afraid of having a different opinion.

2011-12-01, 13:29	Link #100
Arlenis Of Lights Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: The Organization (New York, U.S) Age: 34	Gooral, I couldn't agree more. I'm REALLY trying to cope...but I'm failing MISerably. I'm so distraught and I'm embarrassed that I even care this much.... These three need to go. Roxanne's form is the best though. I mean...I just keep staring at Hysteria....and I just can't wrap my head around it. WTF was Yagi on when he drew this up?! I'm in rant mode. Not just because of that atrocity named Hysteria, but because of the whole chapter it seems. Cassandra is swooping well though, I do like that. __________________ It's her. The one possessing such a technique of luster, mustering her own Yoki from within and emitting it in an offensive force of illuminating gales; Arlenis of Lights

2011-12-01, 09:57	Link #81
Dark Night Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Should I admit that Claymore's internal logic when it comes to power levels is broken? I have a really, really hard time seeing the Ghosts being a problem to Isley, Riful and Luciella, even with Miria and Clare there. Hysteria is supposed to be on that same level. Clare isn't here, and Miria should be keeling over from blood loss and exhaustion, shonen will power and determination be damned. But I will not be surprised if she keeps going on. Since Yagi is not willing to let some people die (not that I want that, but it's what logically should happen when you are an insect compared to the AO you're facing), I can only hope the rebels will retreat, or get rescued (not on purpose) by Priscilla. Or Clare, though even she wouldn't make a difference without half-awakening. Even so I feel it'd still not be enough, unless of course she got a power-up, and I don't know how I'd feel about that. Or maybe I missjudged the Abyssal Ones, and they are not the powerhouses I think them to be.

2011-12-01, 10:19	Link #82
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Claymore's logic in regards to powerlevels have been broken ever since Teresa fought Priscilla. Not to mention that extra chapter where she defeats Rosemary. Literally, there is a reason the Teresa vs Priscilla debates often devolve into who is Goku and who is Vegeta.

2011-12-01, 12:00	Link #87
Return Clare Teresa within me Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Kicking NG Yagi's ass	NG Yagi should freaking learn about the gaiden concept, because this whole Miria showcase arc with the freaking newcomers would be done as a freaking gaiden in a normal manga. You cannot freaking remove the main from the equation for a year and expect people to be happy about it. If you've written your main into a corner and need time to figure out your next move, freaking admit it and call it a gaiden instead of screwing with the fans for a year. I freaking can't believe there's still nothing about Clare if these spoilers are true.

2011-12-01, 12:01	Link #88
Gooral Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The town where Copernicus was born. Age: 38	Thanks for replying Nixl. Generally I agree with everything you said, I was just curious what exactly you had in mind when you wrote that. "Generally" because at the time volume 5 came out it wasn't established yet just how powerful Priscilla and Teresa were (we didn't know how strong AOs were). Only after Riful said that Priscilla is much stronger than her it started to fall apart and when Prissy obliterated Alicia and Beth in seconds Yagi dug himself into the hole you speak of. If he would stick to the "Riful + Luciella should have chances of defeating Priscilla" I wouldn't see much of a problem but when Priscilla became SSJ4 he burned that bridge and here we are.

2011-12-01, 12:16	Link #89
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	In the Witch's Maw arc Priscilla was made out to be close to an AO in status and then it skyrockets after the extra chapter with Teresa. Personally, I think the issue is that Priscilla and Teresa's powerlevel are inherently linked. Both are powerful, yet one is suppose to be stronger, meaning what ever one does reflects on the other. I think the extra chapter with Teresa is when things started to move too quickly. For Teresa to kill an awakened no.2 even if her strength was questionable also means Priscilla is raised an extra level. The fact that Priscilla annihilated Alicia/Beth means that Teresa is also raised a level. Then, we also have Riful's words about Priscilla. In addition, if Yagi is following a progression of successively stronger antagonists then if we get another antagonist they will potentially have to be more ridiculous than Teresa/Priscilla. Right now we are still just filling in the void between Teresa/Priscilla compared to everyone else with the ZAOs until we finally reach that point. Just consider that Priscilla has cleaned house with Alicia/beth, Riful, Dauf, a legion of hellcats, and the Destroyer without pause and now is possibly going to defeat the ZAOs. The fact that Priscilla did that means Teresa is that level or perhaps even greater. It is a spiral at this point. It seems like ever since the Witch's Maw Yagi has had to write a revenge story for a heroine(Claire) that has no chance anymore.

2011-12-01, 12:39	Link #90
Gooral Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The town where Copernicus was born. Age: 38	Extra scene was shown to us by Yagi after Riful revealed to Clare that Isley defeating Priscilla was a lie and that Priscilla was much stronger. So that's the point where power levels have gone up significantly. But it wasn't until about 100 chapter when things started to go out of hand. Priscilla having a chance of winning against two abyssals was somewhat acceptable but Yagi went well beyond that.

2011-12-01, 12:45	Link #91
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	You are right, I switched up the Riful and the Extra chapter. I think it became almost inevitable once Priscilla got wrapped up with Isley and the AOs way back in the Witch's Maw to be honest. Teresa/Priscilla would have been compared to the AOs regardless by that point. A revenge story with Teresa/Priscilla involved I think forced many events to happen in order to make it work.

2011-12-01, 12:49	Link #92
Newhope Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	I've seen the full chapter and Hysterias AB form is hilarious, Roxannes is pretty cool though. Spoiler for Last page of 121:

2011-12-01, 12:52	Link #93
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Roxanne's form reminds me the Cleopatra movie with the head. I now dub Hysteria, Hysterical. Cassandra=Dust Eater technique Roxanne=Cleopatra? Hysteria= A flower?

2011-12-01, 13:22	Link #97
Gooral Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The town where Copernicus was born. Age: 38	I would go further and say that no Claymore was confirmed to be dead in HQ which makes this situation not good IMO. Yagi is afraid to kill anyone at this point it seems. And suddenly characters receive huge power-ups, for example twins couldn't handle Roxanne when she was a Claymore but they could snatch from her a Claymore... And I agree that Hysteria's awakened form looks ludicrous but Roxanne's isn't much better. All three ZAOs have either hideous or very hideous forms and it shows that Yagi is out of ideas when creating them (it's especially apparent with Hysteria, seriously Yagi? You show us THIS?). Also, it looks for now that Cassandra is the most powerful of the three for now.

2011-12-01, 13:26	Link #98
Gooral Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The town where Copernicus was born. Age: 38	The most hilarious thing is that Hysteria doesn't have hands (only wings and rods) so she won't be able to take the sword out, lol. Edit: Well, she has upper rods so technically she should be able to pull the sword out by pushing the hilt.

2011-12-01, 13:27	Link #99
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I am not sure about that Gooral, I mean Roxanne always seems to have a plan or some ability up her sleeve. I would not be surprised if her body had some ace to it that Cassandra get's wrecked by. I am going to guess that she absorbs people. Edit: Whoops, missed the "for now" part. Cassandra's form is good for me, but Hysteria's is pretty lack luster.