Diablo III

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

You know, I have a lot of issues with DRM companies put into games these days, but being asked to connect online is not one of them. Even though it can be an inconvenience at times (like when I had a two week period without internet and had to connect via HSDPA stick). But if it were offline then there would be much more rampant cheating. And the online requirement does not break my PC like some other DRMs like to do. Starforce/Securom/RandomCrapThatInstallsDriversAndSlowsDownPC are a much bigger insult than online play.

You only care about "rampant cheating" if you are playing multi-player.

The rest of us just want to play a single player game. So of course it is outragious to us that there is lag and down-times. I expect to be able to play the game I paid for whenever I want. But now I pay full price to rent a game. And in 5 years they will probably shut the server down.

[Sassarai]

Well think about it this way, you'll still probably get way more playing hours compared to most other 60 dollar game you buy. It's still a great bang for the buck regardless if the servers shut or if there's downtime here and there. I've made way worst decisions on games compare to D3 which paid for itself since I made 900 dollars real money.

[Archon_Wing]

I paid ~50 for a game.

Instead I got paid to do their beta testing. Take what you will from it.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Instead I got paid to do their beta testing. Take what you will from it.

Isn't it the other way around? WE paid them to make us their whipping boys and girls.

That said, I can't say that I'm NOT enjoying multiplayer now. Lag aside, it's much more fun playing in a team, particularly with my actual buddies. Now if only the itemization can be fixed...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

Well think about it this way, you'll still probably get way more playing hours compared to most other 60 dollar game you buy. It's still a great bang for the buck regardless if the servers shut or if there's downtime here and there. I've made way worst decisions on games compare to D3 which paid for itself since I made 900 dollars real money.

Nope. DIII is the least value for money game I have bought. I have definitely played DII far more than DIII in terms of percentage of time invested, because DIII is the first game I know of that punishes me for playing, and it was also the first game I bought that actually control when I get to play.

So you might be used to games that get boring after a few weeks. But I expect and demand more than that. A game with "Diablo" in its title deserved better.

As for making real money? I am not interested in that. I want a game, not a job.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You only care about "rampant cheating" if you are playing multi-player.

The rest of us just want to play a single player game. So of course it is outragious to us that there is lag and down-times. I expect to be able to play the game I paid for whenever I want. But now I pay full price to rent a game. And in 5 years they will probably shut the server down.

I didn't realize you are the elected representative of the rest of the D3 playerbase Who is this nebulous "rest of us"? There surely are some people like you who will only ever play this game offline, and to them this may be a minor inconvenience, although I dare say it's mindnumbingly boring to play D3 solo after you've played through it a few times but to each his own. But to a significant portion of the playerbase, multiplayer is important. Otherwise they'd have made D3 a singeplayer-only game to begin with.

The way they designed the game, with seamless meshing between singleplayer and multiplayer experience, it would simply not be possible to do this integration with an offline singleplayer component without encouraging cheating. Well, personally I much prefer it this way. Convenience simply trumps any notions I might have about my "rights" as a gamer. "The rest of us " want to be able to select between single and multiplayer at will and not have to worry about whether you'll end up in party with some cheater. Remember map hacks?

I've clocked 250 hours on this game before shelving it out of boredom, with 100 being in singleplayer without any lag whatsoever (but this was back during release, not sure how well it plays now). YMMV but as far as I'm concerned I got way more than my money's worth out of my €60, and I plan to play some more after some of my friends get it. And D2 is still going AFAIK. I very much doubt they'll shut down D3 servers in just 5 years. They'll want to keep cashing in on the RMAH as long as it pays the bills. And this is Blizard we're talking about, not some random no-name company. I still have some faith in them. If they shelf the game in 10-15 years, I fully expect them to release a server binary for people to run their own servers.

Also note that you never buy games but only ever licenses to use the software. So you're being cheated out of your money regardless of whether the software requires an internet connection or not.

Also, and I am not implying that this is applies to you, but I believe that the vast majority of people complaining about the internet connection necessity are simply upset that they cannot pirate the game anymore. Even if they champion the whole "gamer rights" thing, their real agenda is quite often very different.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Nope. DIII is the least value for money game I have bought. I have definitely played DII far more than DIII in terms of percentage of time invested, because DIII is the first game I know of that punishes me for playing, and it was also the first game I bought that actually control when I get to play.

So you might be used to games that get boring after a few weeks. But I expect and demand more than that. A game with "Diablo" in its title deserved better.

As for making real money? I am not interested in that. I want a game, not a job.

What's there to demand? The game is already made and been out for so long. If you didn't like it you could of gotten a refund a long time ago. I assume Blizzard had already said the game was going to be online only and it's on the box? I don't understand this entitlement sentiment that's going on. If a game company no longer makes games I like to play I just move on. It's not like they are going to rehire Blizzard North and redo the entire game.

Even if I didn't make any money from this game it's still better than most of the games out there as far as value. If you have about 60 hours of gameplay imo. that's way more than enough to justify buying any game. They don't owe you to continue to entertain you for the rest of your life.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

What's there to demand? The game is already made and been out for so long. If you didn't like it you could of gotten a refund a long time ago. I assume Blizzard had already said the game was going to be online only and it's on the box? I don't understand this entitlement sentiment that's going on. If a game company no longer makes games I like to play I just move on. It's not like they are going to rehire Blizzard North and redo the entire game.

Even if I didn't make any money from this game it's still better than most of the games out there as far as value. If you have about 60 hours of gameplay imo. that's way more than enough to justify buying any game. They don't owe you to continue to entertain you for the rest of your life.

No, they don't owe me to entertainment me for the rest of my life. I just wanted to buy a game I can play whatever I want to.

So since that's the way Blizzard want to play, that's the way it's going to be. This is the last time I will buy a game from them. I find it sad that you think it is normal for a PC game to "die" whenever the game company felt like killing it. There was a time when people stay loyal to a game for years and years...

No, Blizzard is not forced to entertain me. I just want to entertain myself, alone OFFLINE.

And 60 hours of game time? Man... Now I see we are completely different consumer bases. You want a game you can buy, play, and then abandon after a few weeks. Fine. Just don't expect others to feel the same when "Diablo" is used as the name on the box.


EDIT: Since when is expecting Diablo II elements in Diablo III, "acting entitled"? Just answer me that.

[Duo Maxwell]

So we're going to this route once again because just one provoking question? You people are funny.

I wouldn't want to play this game alone, seriously.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

So we're going to this route once again because just one provoking question? You people are funny.

I wouldn't want to play this game alone, seriously.

This reminded me of how I was told most people are not willing to eat at a resturant alone, or go watch a movie alone.

Well, that's them. I am me. DIII had to butcher many parts of the game to turn it online only. The most blatant is the murder of chest drops. The "cheating prevention" ended up forcing every player to meet the China Gold Farmers. People I have NEVER had to meet when playing Diablo II. And to fight the farmers, it is now literally a waste of time to open treasure chests.

Great Job, Blizzard.

[Archon_Wing]

As for the x hours of gameplay argument that gets tossed around, that assumes it was enjoyed. Now you might be like "wait, why would you keep playing a game you didn't enjoy" but I would argue that a lot of people were aiming for the endgame promise.

Normal was too easy, story was too short, meh. Is there more? Maybe cooler loot and monsters in Nightmare?
Nightmare? More like it. But it's a bit repetitious.
Hell? You hit 60. Game's begun!
Inferno? Derp.

However, I think most recent patch and the paragon level has improved the situation. If you can't beat Act 3 Inferno now with the AH, I'm afraid to say it, but it's not the game's fault.

Yes, the game is not really that bad, and I don't regret playing it, but the lack of certain features can still be annoying. A lot of people did want single player mode, and if they played hardcore, they'd be pretty bitter about lag and server downs.

And the content repeated 4x was just not that great for a 2012 game. I've never seen a multiplayer game where all my friends quit within 2 months when most of them played games like d2 and bw for a decade, literally.

If one wants to get the most out of D3, I'd recommend hardcore if the connection allows. Suddenly hell mode becomes much more interesting again.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Isn't it the other way around? WE paid them to make us their whipping boys and girls.

That said, I can't say that I'm NOT enjoying multiplayer now. Lag aside, it's much more fun playing in a team, particularly with my actual buddies. Now if only the itemization can be fixed...

Well, I made more than the game's value on the RMAH. Still that's just an extra and yes, don't play the game for that.

[Sassarai]

Well I guess I wouldn't play a game for 60hrs if I didn't enjoy it to some degree. Let me use this example. I am a big fan of the Suikoden jrpg series. I bought everyone of the console numbers. I bought Suikoden IV, played it for a couple hours and thought it was crap. No complaining just moved on to Suikoden V and loved it. See a bad movie, paid for it, didn't like it, moved on. I don't hold any grudges and demand them make me a better version of the movie. Blizzard doesn't owe anyone anything.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

Well I guess I wouldn't play a game for 60hrs if I didn't enjoy it to some degree. Let me use this example. I am a big fan of the Suikoden jrpg series. I bought everyone of the console numbers. I bought Suikoden IV, played it for a couple hours and thought it was crap. No complaining just moved on to Suikoden V and loved it. See a bad movie, paid for it, didn't like it, moved on. I don't hold any grudges and demand them make me a better version of the movie. Blizzard doesn't owe anyone anything.

They don't. But then again, they didn't exactly do it out of their depths of their hearts. They're selling a product. Of course they don't have to do anything, but you can't stop the customers from having expectations.

And maybe I don't feel a need to buy their upcoming expansions. I'm just one customer, but Blizzard has made more than 60 bucks off me if we count RMAH fees and could easily make more. I'm sure they should listen to players like me.

[Sassarai]

I'm already way past that point where I have any high expectations for any game. It happens too often in the online gaming world. "RIFT is going to kick WoW's butt!"" SWTOR is going to kick WOWS butt" then they all end up to be WOW clones. Not worth it being a fanboy and just buying games because they are made by your favorite company. Read reviews, watch vids, and if you like what you see buy it. Diablo 3 is what it is. It's not going to change into a completely different game.

Not trying to be mean or anything. Just don't see the point in players who genuinely seem to dislike the game and continue to be miserable in hopes of it changing. I think there's a lot of problems in D3 myself as well but it's like if they choose to fix it good I'll keep playing if not time to play something else.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Well, that's them. I am me. DIII had to butcher many parts of the game to turn it online only. The most blatant is the murder of chest drops. The "cheating prevention" ended up forcing every player to meet the China Gold Farmers. People I have NEVER had to meet when playing Diablo II. And to fight the farmers, it is now literally a waste of time to open treasure chests.

This has nothing to do with it being online.

What you're talking about are problems that stem from trade/AH/RMAH and the lack of soul-bound items. The way drops were conceived to just throw a ton of garbage at you is also major contributor to the suckiness.

Seriously though Vallen you're just coming off as the pirate kiddies bitching how the game can't be (fully) cracked and whatnot. I'm all in favor of offline/singleplayer but the argument only goes so deep into the game's problems...

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

I'm already way past that point where I have any high expectations for any game. It happens too often in the online gaming world. "RIFT is going to kick WoW's butt!"" SWTOR is going to kick WOWS butt" then they all end up to be WOW clones. Not worth it being a fanboy and just buying games because they are made by your favorite company. Read reviews, watch vids, and if you like what you see buy it. Diablo 3 is what it is. It's not going to change into a completely different game.

Not trying to be mean or anything. Just don't see the point in players who genuinely seem to dislike the game and continue to be miserable in hopes of it changing. I think there's a lot of problems in D3 myself as well but it's like if they choose to fix it good I'll keep playing if not time to play something else.

I'll just have to disagree. We have many patches and expansions coming up, so a lot can and will change. Blizzard listened to community complaints and changed the game for the better. So yes, all these bitching and complaining IS useful

Originally Posted by felix

This has nothing to do with it being online.

What you're talking about are problems that stem from trade/AH/RMAH and the lack of soul-bound items. The way drops were conceived to just throw a ton of garbage at you is also major contributor to the suckiness.

Seriously though Vallen you're just coming off as the pirate kiddies bitching how the game can't be (fully) cracked and whatnot. I'm all in favor of offline/singleplayer but the argument only goes so deep into the game's problems...

Vallen's referring to nerfing chests as a response to botters. He wants the right to accept/reject changes to the game, which would have been possible with offline play instead of having changes done to the game "solving" things that are of no concern.

On a side note, I also have to end up agreeing with him on:

A game with "Diablo" in its title deserved better.

If it's not gonna remain true to the name, then why even bother?

[Wigwams]

i dunno but lately chests and other stuffs seem to drop alot of yellows... i got near cap MF but from what i know MF doesnt apply right? or maybe they changed that? i even got a blackthorne legs (set item) from a chest pre 1.0.4.

i must be a really flexible guy since i can just go with the flow. things get buffed, nerfed, changed, or whatever. its fine with me. there's always another way. and im not concerned with d3 servers going down at all, im 99% certain ill be quitting years before the d3 servers end if they ever do.

also i cant see how diablo 3 is not a proper diablo game. is there really any difference? we get alot of bad items now which is alot of people's complain, does that make d3 not a diablo game? i cant understand that, loot it just loot.

[Waven]

I'd even go as far as to say no matter how D3 turned out, whether it has DRM or not, made by the old Blizz North team or not, had different features, after so many years since D2, there'd still be a large portion of die hard fans that wouldn't like it, especially the ones afflicted by the rose-tinted-glasses syndrome that wanted a D2.5HD.

Very few people who played D2 will enjoy D3 as much as its predecessor simply because everything is more fun when you're younger. It's the deceiving power of nostalgia.

[Archon_Wing]

Except it's just not nostalgia. There are some areas of D3 that are clearly inferior.

For example, where's the pvp? D2 had pvp on release. And what do they plan for D3? 4v4 Arena garbage?

Battle.net 2.0, no clan channels, no user channels. It goes without saying.

Dumbed down itemization. Why does a dagger have the same range as a polearm?

These are issues pointed out to me by friends that have never played D2 before.

A lot of friends declared it more similar to a WOW knockoff than a sequel to D2. Fortunately, they're starting to get rid of those elements such as enrage timers and the shallow level cap, so what can I say? 1.04 is moving in the right direction.

This isn't to say that D3 doesn't do many things better than D2. Still, my friend's list which contained about 20-30 people plus some more online friends is completely empty now, which includes people who didn't play d2 before so they weren't exactly in nostalgia mode, so there must have been something not engaging about it.

This is all a red herring though. Point is that the single player fanbase was a huge part of D1/D2, and it's basically been abandoned. Let's not forget the custom mod community too. So you can't really blame people for feeling left out.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Vallen's referring to nerfing chests as a response to botters. He wants the right to accept/reject changes to the game, which would have been possible with offline play instead of having changes done to the game "solving" things that are of no concern.

You all are chasing pigeon butts. You could have the game work offline and it would still be (to your displeasure) balanced against botters/etc if there was a way for you to trade online. "Offline" isn't some magic thing. The problem is "trade" and "itemization", not you being disconnected from the server. How many games have you seen of this genre that have a offline component that's not just a mirror of the balance in the online component?

Offline mode = no [chance for] lag mode; not better game balance, better drops, or anything like that.

@Waven

You forgot the part about it being harder when you were younger and now everything seeming mindlessly easy.

Though it's not really just nostalgia, D3 is actually a game with problems. It's not a bad game, it just has a lot of problems.