Higurashi Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[keke]

I'm very interested in Rika's death in chapter 2.

Spoiler:

In the beginning of the chapter, we see that Rika apparently kills herself during a confrontation with Mion. Why would she do this? In ep. 15, we see that she has forseen her death, however it happens. That's if this prequel chapter stays true for all the future chapters.

Rika implies to Akasaka that she wants to be saved, or at least that's how he interpretted her message. So why would she take her own life? Did she predict how she would die, or does she simply know she'll die somehow? Perhaps she just decided to end things herself, knowing she cannot escape her fate.

But why kill herself infront of Mion at that moment? If she was planning on commiting suicide, doing it alone and in a less painful way would probably be better. Perhaps something Mion said to her at that moment put her over the edge?

[Rasuberi]

Originally Posted by keke

I'm very interested in Rika's death in chapter 2.

Spoiler:

In the beginning of the chapter, we see that Rika apparently kills herself during a confrontation with Mion. Why would she do this? In ep. 15, we see that she has forseen her death, however it happens. That's if this prequel chapter stays true for all the future chapters.

Rika implies to Akasaka that she wants to be saved, or at least that's how he interpretted her message. So why would she take her own life? Did she predict how she would die, or does she simply know she'll die somehow? Perhaps she just decided to end things herself, knowing she cannot escape her fate.

But why kill herself infront of Mion at that moment? If she was planning on commiting suicide, doing it alone and in a less painful way would probably be better. Perhaps something Mion said to her at that moment put her over the edge?

Spoiler:

I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.

[Sinestra]

Very intresting episode i will admit that it did make me a little sad. First Akasaka's wife dying was a shocker but thank goodness the child survives. i dont want to imagin that man if he would have lost them both i think that would be it for his sanity i am surpised he held it together as well as he did.

Rika knowing the future and knowing that she was going die was one of saddest things iv seen so far this chapter. having to live knowing you know when your time is up plus everyone elses. I was surpised when she asked for help she seemed so vulnarable then. There has been much speculation over weather you can change your destiny/Fate. That is a very hard question to answer. Some think that even knowing your future will already change it. While others beleive that no matter what you do its pre-destined i think Rika did not like this idea. Even if you think Rika changed her destiny in some way, we could never tell because that could have been part of her destiny as well. Im convienced that there is just no way to tell

I also think that Rika was allowed to have this knowledge if the whole town was doomed there would be no one around to tell the story i think that Rika's real purpose was to meet Akasaka so that he could tell the story after she and the town were gone the same for Oishi. So basically everyone had a role to play weather they wanted to or not it was destined. but thats just my theory im still unsure of a few things. Such as Keiichi surviving but no mention of him in this episode. i know how Oishi survived so im clear on that one.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

Spoiler:

I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.

Spoiler:

That was one of the more subtle events in the story, that is, you won't be directly told why Rika did that. But if you're sharp enough about Rika, you should be realize why she did what she did. At the very least, most people should be able to have a good idea about everything by the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen.

The answer doesn't become absolutely clear until Minagoroshi-hen (not covered by the anime) though, so be sharp!

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Very intresting episode i will admit that it did make me a little sad. First Akasaka's wife dying was a shocker but thank goodness the child survives. i dont want to imagin that man if he would have lost them both i think that would be it for his sanity i am surpised he held it together as well as he did.

Rika knowing the future and knowing that she was going die was one of saddest things iv seen so far this chapter. having to live knowing you know when your time is up plus everyone elses. I was surpised when she asked for help she seemed so vulnarable then. There has been much speculation over weather you can change your destiny/Fate. That is a very hard question to answer. Some think that even knowing your future will already change it. While others beleive that no matter what you do its pre-destined i think Rika did not like this idea. Even if you think Rika changed her destiny in some way, we could never tell because that could have been part of her destiny as well. Im convienced that there is just no way to tell

I also think that Rika was allowed to have this knowledge if the whole town was doomed there would be no one around to tell the story i think that Rika's real purpose was to meet Akasaka so that he could tell the story after she and the town were gone the same for Oishi. So basically everyone had a role to play weather they wanted to or not it was destined. but thats just my theory im still unsure of a few things. Such as Keiichi surviving but no mention of him in this episode. i know how Oishi survived so im clear on that one.

there are quite a few visual novels out there that follow a similar design as higurashi..in that each arc or branch is a parallel universe unto itself...so it's just as likely that in this parallel universe, either keichi died as well, or he never ended up in the town to begin with

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

there are quite a few visual novels out there that follow a similar design as higurashi..in that each arc or branch is a parallel universe unto itself...so it's just as likely that in this parallel universe, either keichi died as well, or he never ended up in the town to begin with

That would make since considering how the over all story and the chapters are presented. I guess if you think that Keiichi was never in town this chapter makes more sense thanks for the info. Either way this series has made my list of animes that i will always remember.

[Alu]

Well this arc compleatly twisted my mind.. to say the least ^^
I'd now better spoil tag this though

Spoiler for a couple of speculations:

Reasons for this are.., well.., up until Tatarigoroshi-hen I found most of the events in Onikakushi-hen and specialy in Watanagashi-hen to have a reasonable explination behind them, altough extreamly complexed.., as I had speculated in detail in this post : http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=133

I was up until then almost ready to exclude the un-natural "option" of the story, IE : Oyashiro-sama's curse, but now after this arc I currently don't know exactly what to think on this

Needless to say that it was mostely all due to Rika's premonitions on what was going to happen, and specialy regarding Akasaka's wife and her fate.
In these aspects I am positive that is not natural or even possible for Rika to know this (unless someone was hired to cause Akasaka's wife into having an "accident" and somehow Rika knew about it - but it still wouldn't explain how she knew about the events which where to come)

The best conclusion I can make of this is that, currently if there is something un-natural at work its Rika's capability for forsee the future.., if this is tied to Oyashiro-sama's curse or not, or if the curse is real or not I cannot say...; however I still feel as if the "curse" itself is not real, but now we do have to take un-natural events & aspects into consideration.

Reasons for what I belive that supports the fact that the curse is not real, are mostely as I had then previously posted on the episode 8 page.., alot of the events seem to have a reasonable explination behind them.., these of course apart from most of what happened in Tatarigoroshi-hen..., which I belive was mostely used to give us an in-sight on the "curse" prespective.., this and well.., I am also positive that alot of it was delivered to us on behalf of Keiichi's own mental insanity..

All and all out of all the 3 scenarios so far Keiichi has only seemed to have died in Onikakushi-hen.., however Rika's fate I belive had been the same through out all 3, just as she predicted..

Altough we do not know what happened to her by the end of Onikakushi-hen.., since I belive the arcs somewhat compel each other on some aspects others missed.., there is a great possibility that the end of the town had been exactly as what happened in these last 2 arcs.., which would imply that Rika had died previous to it, one way or another.

The observation that Rasuberi made regarding this :

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.

Seems to me, to fit perfectly.., giving Rika's character..

So there is no escaping that she would die, but she probably wanted to kill herself to gain some control and not let things simply "be decided"..., question now is..., by Who

In the end I belive that most arcs clearly gaved us alot of answers that where used to compleat the previous ones.., altough this despite raising then alot more Other questions ^^
I have a feeling that the next 2 answer arcs will be more or less the same.., but hopefully by the end we can more or less view the big picture.

I'm truly loving this anime.., I've almost forgotten about every other

[solwyvern]

Originally Posted by Alu

Well this arc compleatly twisted my mind.. to say the least ^^

So youve finally caught up. True, true, I was left baffled in the same way.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Alu

All and all out of all the 3 scenarios so far Keiichi has only seemed to have died in Onikakushi-hen..,

○Hmmm, didn't Keichi die in Watanagishi-hen as well? He got 'hammered' by ?Mion/Shion/Oni, remember? Or by some crazy miracle(such as the ending of Tatarigoroshi-hen)... he was able to come out alive^^

Originally Posted by Alu

So there is no escaping that she would die, but she probably wanted to kill herself to gain some control and not let things simply "be decided"..., question now is..., by Who

I'd say that the Sonozaki clan are pulling some strings here. I've been suspecting that they are a massive organization protecting the curse of Oyashiro.
..even going as far as hiring some trained men to do their dirty work. OR I could be wrong and there are 2 organizations. The Sonozaki clan, and maybe Mr. Director himself. maybe the hired men actually work for Mr. Director instead of the Sonozakis

Originally Posted by Alu

I have a feeling that the next 2 answer arcs will be more or less the same..,

I want to believe otherwise. =o
The next arcs after all, are the answer arcs. It should more explain the previous episodes and clear up on some things.

[Alu]

@ Solwy : For Keiichi's last scene in Watanagishi-hen...

Originally Posted by solwyvern

Spoiler:

○Hmmm, didn't Keichi die in Watanagishi-hen as well? He got 'hammered' by ?Mion/Shion/Oni, remember? Or by some crazy miracle(such as the ending of Tatarigoroshi-hen)... he was able to come out alive^^

I belive that

Spoiler:

that image he saw of Shion(dressed as Mion) in the hospital about to drive those nails into his hand was all in his head..., after all that happened he probably became mentaly instable.., which regarding Keiichi we have seen this happen many times through all the arcs (except this one of course) so far

I belive this because.., I don't find any reasonable explination for Shion to still be alive.., according to the police report they had found her body (still beliving to be Mion) along with the others down in that Well at the Sonozaki house.

So.., unless Oyashiro-sama brought her back from the dead, or something that I cannot find explination as of yet.., I'd realy have to guess and say it was all in Keiichi's mind.

By the way Solwy.., as things are going.., don't be surprised if I end up asking you to drop the Rozen Maiden vectors and make one for a Mion wallpaper ^^, or..., ups.. I guess I just did

[FatPianoBoy]

I still think people are thinking way too deeply into the twin thing, but whatever.

The logical camp took a serious blow from this last arch. Unless Rika overhead something at one of the family meetings (very possible), then there are some seriously weird things happening. I'm also finding it a bit harder to keep attributing "Oyashiro-sama mode" to a temporary psychosis of some sort. Unless there's something in the water other than that toxic gas, I'm not sure how nearly everyone in the town can drop into that creepy trance

[lifestorm2]

I wonder......where is Takano? I don't see much difference in the known characters (and it's only about 5 years before the other arcs), so....where is she? =O

[aliensporebomb]

Some really odd thoughts came to mind while watching this and some of the
other arcs:

If, in the end, the town is effectively DESTROYED by a lethal volcano gas,
how does that please Oyashiro-sama? Wouldn't that being be out of
the omnipotent being business then? What good is being an omnipotent
God with no beings to be God to?

If s/he requires occasional sacrifice, eliminating the town (which this
being/god/demon) supposedly values, to the point of KILLING people
who LEAVE the town or threatens it (dam builders anyone?) it doesn't
make sense.

So, my feeling is - Rika may very well have been possessed or had
some telekinetic power as was Shion/Mion (not really sure but I think
it's possible Shion was the evil one and Mion may very well have been
a sweetiepie caught in the crossfire of her sisters machinations, we just
don't know clearly yet).

There's multiple things happening here. And I don't completely buy that
the whole kit and kaboodle was supernatural happenings. I suspect 1/3rd
was humans (drugs, hypnosis, mental illness), 1/3rd may very well have
been supernatural events (rika? mion? shion?) and 1/3rd we just don't
know.

Show is driving me nuts.

Spoiler:

That comment about Irie at the page linked in this thread rings of a bit
of truth.

[NykylaiHellray]

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

Spoiler:

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o

Though I have worked out somthing. There seems to be four main factors at work

Spoiler:

Rika, may or may not be Oyashiro-sama, which makes her the key element.

Oishi in all serves as the catalyst for the events, triguring things, and as referred in the tips, is the harbringer of Oyashiro-sama.

Keichi, is also linked, and is the trigger that starts the scenarios going, and in one becomes the devine outlet for Oyashiro-sama.

Mion repersents the ogre aspect and also seems to be a trigger..

Hmmm now to work out how they are linked =/

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by NykylaiHellray

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

Spoiler:

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o

Spoiler:

I think we are supposed to be a bit confused. Part of the mystery is figuring out how the four arcs are related to each other. The ending of Himatsubushi-hen seems to be a 4th seperate outcome, and we're left to assume that what we saw in the beginning of Himatsubushi-hen is also the past for the other 3 arcs. They just don't give many strait answers in this show (well, at least for the question arcs)

[kj1980]

[QUOTE=NykylaiHellray]I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

Spoiler:

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o

You're on the right track, but thinking differently.

Here's a hint so that you can discuss your theories in the general discussion thread:
Which parts are similar, and which parts are different? And if different, why?

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by NykylaiHellray

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

It might be better thinking that each chapter is its own possibility in the world of Higurashi. While some chapters might be very similar to others you got to sort out the details of what makes each chapter unique. If something is similar in all the chapters... well... you have something constant going on. If something only happens in one chapter than you have a variable in the formula. If you have an event that repeated itself in a few chapters you got to figure out why it doesn't happen in the other arcs.

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth =)

[Chibi_Faerie]

Question question~ *Raises hand*

For Rika's 'Predictions'

Spoiler:

She mentions everything happening, even her own death. But says nothing of Tomitake and Takano, who always 'die' before her in that year on the night of wantanagashi. Well Tomitake does, Takano supposedly does. Why not have them included in the predictions? Was this a mistake by deen or does it have some significance to it?

Was just rewatching the series and got to this part, so was curious and thought I'd mention it.

[OkamiNoKaze]

Hmm, wouldn't it be interesting, if the Nurse that befriended Akasaka's wife was Takano?

[rogerpepitone]

Takano was at the Irie clinic during Himatsubushi. (She's not mentioned by name, but she's definitely visible in a few panels of the manga, back when Akasaka was looking for a phone.)