Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Vegitto-kun]

I found the first part of episode 4 boring

so do most people, if they made a poll asking they would get atleast 80% voting it was boring

[Skullchukka]

I'm giving this episode 10, just for the pace. I think that was amazingly well done, I was really surprised when I saw how "slow" things were going. But I hope they will explain why Ange denied to become a witch as she said, in future episodes. They only flash-back-forwarded it.

[June 1983]

Count me down as one of the people who LOVE Ange and LOVE the EP 4 flashbacks .... I'm still torrenting this episode so I'll see then how they handled it. For what it's worth, I really do hope they haven't completely cut out the murder of the stakes by putting in a flashback, and that we will see the full scene next week ... because it's probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole VN.

[Kaiba]

I'm not the sentimental type, but Sakutarou is just HNNNNGGGGGG.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

Don't look at it so much as she didn't see it coming as much as she didn't really care about the fate of Ange from 1998. Remember back to the end of episode 5 and the first arc, where she tells (Battler/audience, whichever you interpret it as) that she's going to help him/us, but she's not doing it to be nice - she's doing it because she wants Beatrice to lose. As far as she sees it, Ange will be a useful piece for fighting the witch, and that's all that matters, so she could care less whether or not 1998 Ange gets her brother back. Also, when Ange asked 'will I be able to get my family back?' she specifically said she couldn't promise anything, so it's strongly implied at this point that Bern has her own agenda.

I do agree, though, that before Bernkastel appeared to her, Ange was just about to kill herself. She already knew she'd lost everything important to her, so even if she was given a false ray of hope in thinking that might change, she's at least been presented with a chance to save her brother's fate (then again I think Battler is just as screwed as Ange; everyone from his world died in EP1, and when it's all over, he's not going to get them back any more than Ange would) and get revenge on whoever is responsible for killing her family. Her new purpose is to find out what happened on Rokkenjima before she dies, so she can rest in piece, and I think we can count on Ange to stay strong in that motivation rather than give into Lambda's words.

True that in the end Bernkastel just wants to win. In the unlikely scenario that Ange loses heart that hurts her chances. Maybe I'm trying to be too optimistic about the whole thing. Does not making any promises mean it's impossible or just very improbable? Suppose it depends on what Bernkastel defines as a miracle. If it's just defeating Beatrice and things ending like Lambda said or if there isn't some way Ange can get something out of this.

After all Lambda has her own objectives so would put things in the light that would best threaten Ange's resolve to fight on. Ange did jump off that roof so in a sense if her family can't come back than neither can she. We are talking about a strange situation here so wouldn't it be possible for Ange to rejoin/merge/something with the current her in 1986 when this is over? Either way Ange had already given up on living. Even if she has to say goodbye she will at least find out what happened and save her brother. True that things might not turn out so well for Battler either although at least for his sake Ange is still alive.

Originally Posted by June 1983

Count me down as one of the people who LOVE Ange and LOVE the EP 4 flashbacks .... I'm still torrenting this episode so I'll see then how they handled it. For what it's worth, I really do hope they haven't completely cut out the murder of the stakes by putting in a flashback, and that we will see the full scene next week ... because it's probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole VN.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the episode. Ange did only come into things lately so she does kind of need some background episodes. Curious about this whole murdering of the stakes thing. Some good stuff in this episode so curious what we'll get next week.

[June 1983]

Having scene that flashback scene in 20 now, I do think we will see more of that scene next week. It didn't feel final or like a summing up to me. Instead, I think it functioned, as others have mentioned, in order to help make the timeline a little more understandable, and also to create a bridge between the Ange-school flashback and the scene where she visits the Witch Hunt guy. (Considering how much I disliked the abrupt transitions last week, I think that's a good thing, it felt more natural).

Now we'll see if DEEN betrays me next week, haha!

Sakutarou squeeeeeeeeee so cute

[MarthX]

I don't remember but maybe Ange spoke about that event before we saw it in the VN? If so, that would explain the flash back. A little detail that you quickly forget about.

[June 1983]

^I think it's very possible she did mention it in passing at that point in the VN. I really don't think DEEN is going to cut out the whole scene in its proper place, unless they really decide to surprise!rape us.

Just finished, and I don't think this episode was at all as bad as others have said, but it's probably because I am so partial to this part of the novel, anyway. The transitions were definitely better than last week. The only thing I really didn't like was the use the of the "black room"/"white room". I was especially kind of hoping for there to be a background for when school-Ange summons the stakes for the first time. I thought that scene in the novel was so beautiful, with them floating in the sky with the ground far below. But I guess they needed to save some money.

I gave it an 8. (I rated last week a 7, so I definitely think it was an improvement.)

edit: Also, yes, I would have loved to hear miragecoordinator, but I didn't really miss it in that scene since it was so stripped down anyway. Also on a related note, I have to say I have really been enjoying the original music that has appeared in the series so far. I'm looking forward to the anime soundtrack not only for the remixed BGMs but also these new pieces, too.

[Tjaard]

Pretty good epi, fast pace but a little boring the same with all this flashback.
Surely is an improvement for Deen, and all Ange scenes were good, especially those with Mammon and Maria (only a little flashback for the scene where she destroys the stakes, oh well overall is always good)
Surely Lambda have less scary facial expression, but surely i'll never compare with those of the game that i don't like.

[Skullchukka]

I'm trying to translate subtitles to my native tongue,
Question:

Spoiler for episode20:

"If we are noisy enough, I'm sure plenty of friends will come to play from the land of the looking glass and wonderland!

Land of the looking glass refers to one of the places that Alice has been to, and wonderland is Alice's Wonderland I presume?
Edit: Yeah, I've read the visual novel, so I know what kind of friends Sakutaro's referring.

[MeoTwister5]

Since subs are out I don't exactly need to use spoiler tags anymore.

The Bad:

1. The otherwise excellent pacing got butchered near the end, especially as some have said regarding Lambda's "warning" to Ange. I personally found it to be a very important scene because, coupled with Bern's own words, is one of the first very strong hints that the game isn't exactly so much a battler between Beato and Battller but also has far deeper implications. Sucks that DEEN couldn't give it like 30 more seconds.

2. Likewise I didn't really like that a lot of the Ange-Stakes scenes, heck who am I kidding practically all of them, were cut and the classroom bullying scene was relegated to a 5sec flashback. While I'm part of the VN-player crowd that found many of the Maria and Ange scenes tedious to go through, I liked the ones where the Stakes hung around Ange. It really built up a lot on Ange's character and the abuse she had to go through.

The Good:

1. Thank you DEEN for giving me my Mammon fix. <3

2. Never thought I'd say it but... fantastic animation from DEEN at some points in the episode.

3. The pacing at least in the first 15min was great. They cut out most of the more redundant and boring scenes about Maria and some about Ange that would have otherwise put me to sleep.

4. That's actually a pretty good cliffhanger ending for what it's worth. Despite getting truncated ending with Lambda's revelation is a great way to set up epiosde 31, where shit will start flying once again.

All in all, barely a 7 for me.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by June 1983

The only thing I really didn't like was the use the of the "black room"/"white room". I was especially kind of hoping for there to be a background for when school-Ange summons the stakes for the first time. I thought that scene in the novel was so beautiful, with them floating in the sky with the ground far below. But I guess they needed to save some money.

I didn't like or understand that myself. When I was watching the episode, I kept thinking "Why are they just in an empty black space? There was a background in the novel."... it felt like it lost something when they did that.

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Spoiler for Review:

New seiyuus:
Mammon - I don't like her voice, but I think it is way to high-pitched for her. I was imagining a more deep, mature voice from her. And I'm not a big fan of her appearance either. I just say, DEEN, you destroyed the Mammon magic.
Otsuki - What can I say? He's just like in the VN xD

Pros:
- Sakutaro is just getting cuter and cuter~
- Super paper i win, pure win.

Cons:
- Eugh on Rosa's work suit
- Didn't they... Skip a scene there? <_<

Overall impression:
Good episode. No, great episode. I'll give it a 10.

[-Sho-]

Hum , so so episode .
Ange "I'm getting bored ...."
Oh god , me too ...

Many things happenned .
Maybe all was delusions ?

[Crontica]

Episode fell flat. If they are this slow paced, which would be considered standard pacing in most anime. Then the rest of ep 4 is going to be stuck on flashforward.

I do not like how the mood of the series in general has been completely evaporated, where is the higurashi tension? The "OHO SHAT HAS HIT THE FAN!" Moments? At most this series is at Seinen-Shounen-Shoujo-Adventure Level.

[TheForsaken]

What is the problem of slow-paced? Even Higurashi has many parts like that too.
If this episode makes you bored that much, there's no way you can stand the "rescue Satoko" part of Higurashi Kai.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

What is the problem of slow-paced?
If this episode makes you bored that much, there's no way you can stand the "rescue Satoko" part of Higurashi Kai.

The series could have had a nice and steady pace if they were willing to hang on trough 4 seasons but that isn't the case is it.

This series had to deal with A LOT of adaptation cuts because they couldn't fit all of it in, they even had to reshuffle scenes so it made the most sense possible.
And now we suddenly see a massive drop in the shows fast-almost-to-fast pacing in order to keep up with the VN.

What do you think is going to happen to the rest of the plot with only 6 episodes left?

1. Cliff Hanger

2. Epic Adaptation Cuttage

3. Nonsensical time saving plot twist

[June 1983]

We already know what's going to happen with the rest of the plot. They're making okay time right now (they've gotten through about 6/19 chapters as of this episode). The pacing of EP 4 is just strange.

[Ithekro]

Listening to miragecoordinator...It doesn't fell right for the tone of Lambda's scene. It fact the beat of it suggests an action scene than a talking scene. It is also seven minutes long. While it might sound all nice in the Sound Novel...it just doesn't fit the scene when things are moving and speaking.

It would be good music for say Battler or Kanon running around the mansion being chased by the stakes in a running magic fight with a lot of tense moments and narrow escapes.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Listening to miragecoordinator...It doesn't fell right for the tone of Lambda's scene. It fact the beat of it suggests an action scene than a talking scene. It is also seven minutes long. While it might sound all nice in the Sound Novel...it just doesn't fit the scene when things are moving and speaking.

It would be good music for say Battler or Kanon running around the mansion being chased by the stakes in a running magic fight with a lot of tense moments and narrow escapes.

Uhh, no. It's a good "Revelation" piece, which is exactly why it's called... yknow... "Miragecoordinator". That is, the mirage breaking apart to show the true evil, as it were.