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Old 2021-06-14, 15:42   Link #281
Magewolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/rev...ode-12/.173881

Once again Eisenbeis puts it in words better than I could. The key point that makes all the difference in this timeline and why this journey is not meaningless despite the overall result being similar, the existence of Vivy's own song created to tell her story of her 100 journey. Even after a century no AI has made any of their own, they are still primary dependent on humans, to be human. What Vivy just did though almost flies in face of the Archive reasoning needs Vivy to settle that contradiction.
Actually I would say it is the other way around if looked at rationally. Without Vivy's song the Archive looks insane since it is killing the humans for an endless future of AI's making coffee for a race that no longer exists. With the song it can say "We can do the whole coming up with ideas thing on our own. Who needs humans?". But that would require rational thought a resource the show is totally deficient in.
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Old 2021-06-15, 06:12   Link #282
Liddo-kun
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episode 12:

emotional moment, when Vivy meet Osamu. Sadly, she has to abandon him on the next time travel, because saving Yui is more important.

Elizabeth is badass in combat. Destroy robot security guards, suricide attack to destroy clone Matsumoto. Archive planned well, because clone Matsumoto seems stronger than the original.

looking forward to next week.
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Old 2021-06-16, 18:48   Link #283
Archon_Wing
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You know, Vivy never picked up any weapons. I guess the Kung Fu program didn't cover firearms. But she's just a songtress! (That can jump from buildings and run really fast, but standard feature). I just think it was a bad idea to give every AI regardless of role superstrength.

Vivy's inability to sing was pretty sad. It's always awful for any one to run into a block and be unable to express themselves. Probably something a lot of the writers must be familiar with.

Last episode is brought to you by Return by Death. Also, love Vivy's coat/cape thingy.

Atsumi Tanezaki has definitely always been a very flexible and talented voice actor but has been hitting it out the park with this series.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2021-06-16 at 22:01.
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Old 2021-06-18, 00:29   Link #284
scififan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
You know, Vivy never picked up any weapons. I guess the Kung Fu program didn't cover firearms. But she's just a songtress! (That can jump from buildings and run really fast, but standard feature). I just think it was a bad idea to give every AI regardless of role superstrength.

Vivy's inability to sing was pretty sad. It's always awful for any one to run into a block and be unable to express themselves. Probably something a lot of the writers must be familiar with.

Last episode is brought to you by Return by Death. Also, love Vivy's coat/cape thingy.

Atsumi Tanezaki has definitely always been a very flexible and talented voice actor but has been hitting it out the park with this series.
Technically, Vivy's archtype is "utahime", or song princess. This is very common in many anime, even Wit Studio has made uta-hime type anime before.

Initially, Vivy refused to load the fighting program, because she was concerned that other type program will interfere with her main function.

Vivy's officially AI model is called "Diva". Vivy's name is given by her first fan, because her look resembles the princess VIvy in girl's picture book. This friendship between AI and human reminds me about another anime. In the episode 2, the girl is killed by the plane crash.

Vivy is the first self-controlled/self-conscious AI. The researcher created her to see any possible outcome. In the original timeline, Vivy performed in the theme park for two years. The experiment was considered as a failure, and VIvy was retired in the mesuem. Her endin was better than Elizabeth, which the researchers sent Elizabeth into a robot junk yard.

After 98 years, AI killing rampage began. The researcher discovered that Vivy was not affected. He installed the program to Vivy to 100 years ago. However, his installation goes through Archive, so his action is under the Archive's watchlist.

Diva successes what Vivy tried to achieve and sang for 40 years. In Diva's last concert, the researcher who set the task for Vivy was there. Since he was still a boy, he visited VIvy frequently.
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Old 2021-06-19, 11:43   Link #285
belatkuro
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Spoiler for ep13:
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Old 2021-06-19, 12:08   Link #286
Ragashingo
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Episode 13
I liked it.
Spoiler:


As for the series as a whole:
Spoiler:
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Old 2021-06-19, 13:43   Link #287
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Spoiler for Episode 13 (End):
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Old 2021-06-19, 14:52   Link #288
Eater of All
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I think a pity is that there isn't really a conclusion (or my brain is too small to get it) on what should be done differently so the same thing won't repeat, for humans and AI to truly coexist. It just felt like a lot of baseless hope.
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Old 2021-06-19, 16:52   Link #289
scififan
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The ending is open for people's interpretation.

The final scene displays a video noise, suggesting the story is merely a video clip.

Spoiler:
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Old 2021-06-19, 17:15   Link #290
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The finale really hit it as high as I think it could get based on the track it was on; an impressive swan song. I also think the ending is a bit open to interpretation; an interesting point to leave off on to make the audience think instead of just assuming AI conflicts are inevitable.

8/10

I think I may rewatch it in dub form sometime.
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Old 2021-06-19, 18:10   Link #291
Nachtwandler
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My guilty pleasure of the season. The script was totally meh. I would have dropped it if not a good acction, direction and decent seiyuu work.

The ending was also super predictable.

Overal;l I somehgow enjopyed it but now I lost my desire to touch anything from Nagatsuki again (I had some hope after Sigdrifa).
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Old 2021-06-19, 19:21   Link #292
Xiyon
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Decent if predictable finale for the series. The post-credit "up for interpretation" aspect kinda dampened it for me, but I guess the studio didn't want to close this on a bittersweet note.

The actual plot lost me after the AI!Kakitani thing but, for the most part, Vivy was a fun and emotional series. Still a recommend.
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Old 2021-06-19, 20:59   Link #293
Magewolf
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I would say this was a case of style over substance but the style fell apart at the end as well.

Nothing about the ending made sense outside of that was the way things had to happen for their ending.
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Old 2021-06-19, 23:43   Link #294
moridin84
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The ending was pretty nice I think. Better than the last few episodes.

Overall it was a disappointment. It takes itself really serious so if you don't buy into the story it really falls flat. And there are issues.

1)
The Archive plot twist only happened because the main characters never questioned whether their actions had any effects. What did they even think caused the "AI War"?

2)
It was never really clear what AIs were supposed to be like. They seem calm, logically and single-mindedly obsessed with their mission but most of the characters are the opposite half the time.

3)
They talk about "humans and AI coexisting" but AI are created by humans and given a single mission by those humans so excluding some outliners AI are essentially just slaves of humans. The only reason the "AI War" happens is because The Archive mind-controlled all the AI in the world to go against their mission and mass murder all the humans.

4)
The whole "only one mission" design of AI is kind of stupid anyway. The talk about it as if it's some sort of universal truth but isn't it just how they are programmed? Why don't they program them to have two missions? Or none.
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Old 2021-06-20, 01:28   Link #295
Thor's Hammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
The whole "only one mission" design of AI is kind of stupid anyway. The talk about it as if it's some sort of universal truth but isn't it just how they are programmed? Why don't they program them to have two missions? Or none.
As revealed in Episode 1, when AIs didn't have something to hone in on, they overloaded due to having too many choices. That's what resulted in the one mission design. I can't say how plausible this is given AIs in the real world aren't developed enough yet, but I guess we'll see in the coming decades.
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Old 2021-06-20, 02:50   Link #296
magnuskn
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Overall I liked the series, but it really had structural flaws. Too disjointed arcs, spotty character work in many places, the out-of-nowhere reveal that the Archive was the main villain all along, which put a giant idiot ball into the hands of the human creators, because they allowed the one AI which could feasibly start an overall rebellion to be without safety protocols to prevent that exact scenario.

Vivy herself was, IMO, way too moody a character to really like, which was highlighted very much with the two episode arc where Diva took over. Matsumoto... I quite liked the bugger in later episodes, but let's be honest, his letting Vivy's young friend die in the first episode was completely unnecessary and just put him into a bad light for much of the first half of the series.
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Old 2021-06-20, 04:12   Link #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Overall I liked the series, but it really had structural flaws. Too disjointed arcs, spotty character work in many places, the out-of-nowhere reveal that the Archive was the main villain all along, which put a giant idiot ball into the hands of the human creators, because they allowed the one AI which could feasibly start an overall rebellion to be without safety protocols to prevent that exact scenario.
The production team tried to make the story more simple. The writers explored the idea of singularity and Three Laws of Robotics. Singualrity, or singular point, is triggered after Zeroth Law is broken. The usage of Singularity(特異点) is similar to Super DImensional Century Orguss.

The first singularity is to save the lawmaker in the theme park. The result is that the legislation is changed from "AI Naming Law"(original timeline) to "AI Rights Law"(revised history).

The second singularity is save the reputation of stewardess Estella. In the original timeline, the space hotel she operates lands on the city and kills many. In the corrected timeline, Estella evacuates customers and pilots the space hotel to be burned in the atmosphere of Earth.

Estella is blamed in the original timeline. To clear AI's bad reputation, the researcher marries the nurse Grace. Due to the change in the second singularity, Grace is ordered to become a center of Metal Float.


The show has its own terminology:

1. Positronic brain:
A computer running autonomous humanoid AI.
Even if the same software is installed on the same hardware and the same stored data exists, it has different personalities, and this personality is used as an individual authentication key for each positron brain.
Once the power is completely turned off, the individuality is lost, and even if the power is turned on again, it becomes another individuality and cannot be restored. Therefore, for autonomous humanoid AI, stopping the power supply to the positron brain means the death of its individuality.
Conversely, if it is a different personality with a different individual authentication key and individuality, it is possible to make a duplicate having the same stored data.

2. Dual Positronic Brains Plan
The research plan that created Estella and Elizabeth.
The details are written in the booklet "Vivy prototype".

A plan to intentionally create an autonomous humanoid AI with the same personality by synchronizing two positron brains in synchronization.

The ultimate goal was to duplicate and restore the personality lost due to the power down.

Due to the enforcement of the "AI Naming Law in original timeline and the "AI Rights Law" in the revised history, the individuality of the positron brain was protected, so duplication of the individuality of the positron brain was contraindicated and stopped.

The only near-successful example of a 99.8% concordance in the positron brain waveform pattern, which is the individual authentication key, was the positron brains of Estella and Elizabeth.
As a test of operation, Estella was put into operation in advance of the body, and Elizabeth was put into a dormant state while maintaining the synchronization of the positron brain.

As a result of the enforcement of the "AI Naming Law" / "AI Rights Law", Estella, which was already in operation, was diverted to other uses, and Elizabeth, who was not in full operation, was destroyed for security reasons.

Elizabeth's personality survived because the power supply to her positron brain was operational. As a result, Elizabeth, with the same individual authentication key as Estella, led to the falling space hotel.
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Old 2021-06-20, 08:15   Link #298
Liddo-kun
is this so?
 
 
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episode 13:

because Vivy went to Toak right away, more of them survived and able to help in the final battle.

now armed with proper information... the terrorists go to disable the power plant, while Matsumoto alone goes to inject the program to disable server.

since Toak has so many more men this time, and they even have their ai Jamming device... they are able to put up a much better fight against the rampaging robots.

Matsumoto vs. a fleet of red cubes. They outnumber him, but Matsumoto has it pre-planned with each cube of himself destroying one ship.

Vivy song is really emotional, I can feel it. Archive final Satellite Bomb attack to try to stop Vivy, was stopped by Matsumoto sacrifice himself to explode with the satellite.

Momoka finally see Vivy perform.

7.5/10 -- I absolutely hated the Ophelia arc, and planned not to buy anything from this show. But Vivy final song change my mind. Going to buy at least a cd when budget allows.

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2021-06-20 at 08:41.
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Old 2021-06-20, 11:32   Link #299
grecefar
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Happy ending I guess?, as much after all that happened and at least vivy is alive and just start a new, too bad she doesn't remember but I'll take it.

8/10
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Old 2021-06-20, 11:40   Link #300
Endscape
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It's so rare to see sci-fi anime these days, especially more creative ones, so I'm really glad this show exists, regardless of anything else.

Seeing Vivy go through everything, struggle so much was the core of the show I think and I enjoyed watching her journey.
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