2012-10-31, 12:07 | Link #5161 | ||||||||
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2012-10-31, 13:36 | Link #5168 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm pointing out the fact that putting words in Kira's mouth only shows that what they supposedly hate about Kira (if that is the case) is only their own imagination.
In other words, they don't really know what they hate, and it only serves to misinform other haters, which makes these other people look foolish when they try to use that in a discussion about the anime. So, if that's supposed to be a "Take that" at Kira, I would still say that it's a strange way of doing it. |
2012-10-31, 13:49 | Link #5169 |
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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related to both SEED/DESTINY and gundam in general
Am i the only one whos bothered by the fact that mobile suits are never animated using most of their thrusters while flying? one example is the strke rogue before the takemikazushi is shot down, it's hovering with only the Aile Strikers thrusters. It happens to other suits aswell, hell, you rarely see a mobile suit use all it's thrusters and verniers, it's always one or two but never all of them ;; |
2012-10-31, 14:07 | Link #5170 | |
he is a CHAR
Join Date: Dec 2009
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CE thruster tech is much different than UC tech. In UC, mobile suits that aren't in a transformed air mode can't stay in the air unless its later UC or some exceptions but in CE, mobile suits can stay in the air with flight packs or nuclear powered. If comparing cross universe, this would mean that CE mobile suits would have stronger thrusters than UC mobile suits because they are able to stay in the air. However it merely seems like different universes with different laws of physics. I mean how could the Unicorn's thrusters be weaker than the Strike? |
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2012-10-31, 14:11 | Link #5171 | |
he is a CHAR
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I guess the haters' plan is working. Really hope that they'll release a good DESTINY HD REMASTER to watch, so a lot of the issues in this thread can be resolved. |
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2012-10-31, 14:50 | Link #5172 | |
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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2012-10-31, 14:51 | Link #5173 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Story and Stock Footage, |
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2012-10-31, 15:35 | Link #5174 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Who is Kira to decide that? He has NO SWAY in Orb and last time I checked he kidnapped Cagalli. Had Cagalli remained in Orb and was married than Orb wouldn't have been there at all. The whole reason Orb was there was because of Kira's selfish actions. Sure Yuna was a creep but he shouldn't blame Orb for falling in a state that he allowed just because he didn't want to see Cagalli forced into a marriage, which she agreed to for the good of Orb, and because she was crying. No they weren't. That's why Kira attacked everyone in the immediate area without a second thought when Orb told Cagalli to go away. No, he literally said Stop Fighting in the Anime more than once. The games just enhanced that because really that's what Kira's actions in Destiny were, Stop Fighting! His only Stop Fighting action that was justified was the unwarranted attack on Berlin. Even than Kira initially attacked everyone and didn't team up with Shinn right away. You are being too dense. Of course he knew, yet he gave her a ring and told her before he rejoined ZAFT that he didn't like it and he wasn't going to let it stand. Than Cagalli's wedding is suddenly rushed forward, when Athrun was gone, and he was never even told. Athrun had to find out about the wedding through other means. Considering that Cagalli and him were an item she had an obligation to tell him it wasn't going to work. Instead she decided that Athrun didn't deserve to know since he wouldn't approve and would talk her out of that stupidity because Cagalli, for some reason, was pushed into believing she was worthless and that things would be better for Orb if she married Yuna. Remember, Cagalli could have easily refused and Yuna pushed very hard to get her to commit fully. Yeah, right. Kira approved of such a dumb plan because of Cagalli. Had he not kidnapped her that plan would never have been made and Cagalli wouldn't have been made to cry or dragged onto the battlefield again. After all, Cagalli was already shown to resist the pressures of Orb to intervene and as soon as she was gone Orb was taken over by Yuna. All because of Kira's short sightedness. And you didn't explain a thing about him while I have explained many times on what Kira's intent was and his actions in the series have proven my point. Tell me, if you're so knowledgeable than what is his intent? No reason to hide behind "You don't understand" and than not elaborate. And who are you to say that? It was working on Mars and Kira had no other solution than to maintain the status queue which has resulted in multiple bloody wars, multiple nukings, and people still hating each other even after Destiny due to their differences and jealousy as the Astray series has shown. Kira's way simply isn't any better. Yet instead of even considering it Kira was right on board with attacking the Leader of ZAFT and having him killed to shut him up. And no, Durandal wasn't an idiot. He knew that no one as powerful as the Feds would join with his plan willingly at first. Just like all Revolutions the ones in power refuse to accept change unless they have no choice. That is why Durandal was right, after Logos was taken out, to suggest that he will use force if those that are unwilling to even give this a try choose to fight and resist. This is no different from any forces, especially not the Lacus Clyne force which was choosing to fight against those that resisted against what they wanted. So Kira was not in the right since he subjected himself to the same methods as Durandal to bring about the future he wanted. The difference is Durandal isn't going to pretend he's somehow the supreme being of morality and knows that many people will die to bring change. While Kira just wants the fighting to stop and doesn't want anyone to die which is completely naive. Destiny Kira just regressed since by the end of SEED he had already come to terms that by fighting not everyone will listen to him and people will die yet in Destiny he's utterly shocked that people are angry that he butts in randomly and when he tries to get them to do what he desires or when people start dying due to his "Interventions". Hell, none of his arguments with Athrun were even logical and were just forced so they could have the Kira vs Athrun dynamic again like at the start of SEED. Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-10-31 at 15:58. |
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2012-10-31, 17:08 | Link #5175 | |||||||||
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Why did the ones who did defect and joined with the Arcangel and Cagali have to die? They aren't really the ones who attacked Cagali. They were the ones who hated the situation and actually took action. Quote:
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Regarding the destiny plan, Yes, he knows what they are doing maybe selfish, he even asked Athrun and he replied basically probably so. However, this was a plan made to eliminate choice from life made by a man who wants to make a system play the role of God. All people would have is a feeling of mere existence. Plus, even with the goal of eliminating war, it would have not stopped conflicts because every now and then, rebellions would rise to end this way of life, because plenty of people would not want this.
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2012-10-31, 17:10 | Link #5176 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Kira said stop fighting a grand total of twice in both Seed and Destiny. Specifically Seed first when Yzak was ignoring the warning about Cyclops to try to attack him, and then immediately after Genesis is first fired, when he's stopping two raging Zaft pilots from basically executing a helpless Strike Dagger who's pilot is begging for mercy (a good place to say that actually.)
If you mean just saying "Stop" he said that a few times, notably during Stella's Destroy rampage as she kept blowing stuff up. Otherwise no. In his grand total of 2 interventions in Destiny, Kira said not a word to anybody but Athrun, who was just being told to stay out of his way. He did not tell Orb, or Zaft to stop fighting. He was totally silent to them. Cagalli did. But not Kira. Using DWG is a terrible character refrence. They exaggerate everyones character there. Kamille doesn't constantly rant that he has a mans name either (he says that once or twice, at the very beginning of the show but its quickly dropped) |
2012-10-31, 17:35 | Link #5177 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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False, ZAFT was not poised to invade ORB at all even after they kicked out the Minerva. Only the Feds would have considered a attack and even than they would rather not fight Orb since they were already fighting a losing war against ZAFT yet again and the fact that Orb had that point had a strong defensive military force.
They did nothing, that alone is a crime in of itself. They allowed this to occur despite knowing, without a doubt, that it was Cagalli yet none of them stopped the attack or vouched for her. Cagalli, even if kidnapped, was still their leader and has authorithy over Yuna especially since the marriage never went through. So basically they're just as bad as Kira for letting events get as bad as they did. False, Cagalli was the sole reason that Orb hadn't joined the Feds officially and weren't actively hounding the Minerva or joining the war effort. Even if she was married she would still have fought to keep Orb out of the war which she believed would be possible if she was wed to Yuna now to calm the tempers of Orb. Also, where was Kira during all this? He knew how bad things were for Cagalli but he choose to do NOTHING at all until Cagalli was convinced to accept the marriage. More could have been done. Kira could have announced that he will attack the aggressors and that he doesn't want the fighting to continue after they're beaten back or he will turn on the Minerva too for prolonging the conflict. Had he done that I'm sure Athrun and Shinn wouldn't have snapped on Kira for showing up(And would have gladly accepted his help since before Shinn went badass mode they were getting hammered hard), acting holier than thou, than judging everyone as aggressors and thus to be treated equally when he was wrong about the situation completely. Yes he said it somewhere(I'm not shifting through 50 episodes of Destiny again until the Remaster since I'm already busy as is with other matters and barely have the time off work to watch a new SEED Remaster episode, Muv-Luv, and the such over a week) and you cannot deny that all of his actions were based off Stop Fighting and his utter naivety over it all when no one stopped(Why should they listen to an outsider that isn't involved?) and people still died no matter what he did. And no, you don't get to dictate when a topic is closed or not. False, she had plenty of means. She was still the Leader of Orb and she knew exactly where the Minerva was. It's not like the Minerva made it hard to find out where they were considering how fast everyone seems to find them and that they were plastered all over the news due to the actions of the Minerva and Shinn. Furthermore even if she had no means, which she did, than that doesn't excuse the fact that she didn't even bother to try nor did she try to explain to Athrun(Or APOLOGIZE) when Kira and her met up with him. Cagalli handled her marriage and her promise with Athrun very poorly, there's no denying it. What proof do you have on that? Orb was out of the war because of Cagalli who was fighting all by herself because Athrun left to try and make a real difference and end a war that Cagalli didn't desire. Kira should have supported her yet in Destiny he doesn't even interact with her nor does he offer a shoulder for her to lean on until after he kidnaps her. Had he actually been a brother to her and helped to at least let her vent and boost her confidence than things wouldn't have gotten all that bad for Cagalli who was literally alone without Athrun at her side(Who at least bothered to take up a fake name and be her Bodyguard while Kira wanted to live away from it all and let the responsibilities to the world be handed off to others). Yet Kira's interventions always ended up with far more Orb deaths than had he stayed off the battlefield and just let them get beaten back by Shinn. His actions and inactions in Destiny have resulted in many deaths and just because he has good intentions doesn't excuse him or his naivety. I say that it's right because it was WORKING ON MARS and the current system was not working at all. At least Durandal was offering a solution that showed great promise while Kira was content with keeping everything the same despite the fact that it isn't working and hasn't worked in the longest time. And no they didn't, Kira didn't ask for the worlds, PLANTs, the Martians, or the such opinions. He merely said "Make a choice" than proceed to take the Destiny Plan off the table and forced everyone to go with the choice he wanted. That makes him just as bad as Durandal who at least was offering something different with a history of working. Sacrifices must always be made to take out a massively powerful and aggressive force of Logos and Durandal had to show what he was capable of if the Destiny Plan was to ever succeed. Considering how many more have died because of the old ways it means that Kira's opposing of a plan that was working means that his hands will be stained with the blood of all those killed in the wars that will follow due to the old way being the only way despite it not working. And again, wars may still happen but Durandal's System would take out a ton of reasons for war and would see to it that everyone reaches the potential that was meant for them(All it needs is a system to give the option for extraordinary individuals to get a waiver to move past their destined role if the need arises). While Kira's way keeps all the reasons for war on the table and he takes away the Destiny plan from those that liked it despite the fact that it was working quite well and Durandal had more than enough means to ensure that it could be enacted for all of humanity. Obviously like all revolutions people would protest that's why Durandal had to show the power he has to get people to stop their petty fighting and work towards what's best for humanity as a whole. |
2012-10-31, 18:24 | Link #5178 |
Anime Critic
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
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^I agree with the above.
Point is, Cagali was probably the weakest character within Destiny. Her judgement, action and overall mentality was that of a child. Without daddy around, she couldn't make up her mind. Her and Kira always were sanctimonious. Even Athrun said that much. Ignorance and naivety were really the reason things escalated to a point. |
2012-10-31, 18:56 | Link #5179 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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You do realize you're basically saying Durandal should have the right to take over and tell the entire world what to do? And blow away entire countries that don't want to follow his plan which is basically him telling everyone what jobs they're going to have?
A big part of the Destiny Plan on Mars, is that anyone who doesn't like it, is free to leave (and go the one colony that doesn't use it. And they get along fine). Durandal meanwhile, plans on enforcing it with Space lasers. It's not really a voluntary plan if you get blown up if you refuse. |
2012-10-31, 18:59 | Link #5180 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Good that others here share similar views as me when it comes to things as this even if you may not agree with everything I say.
Durandal has more of a right than Kira. At least he was in a position of power, won the war, and had a wide array of support while the Lacus Clyne faction had very little support, were rebels, and had attacked all sides in the war regardless of their positions. Besides, the war would have gotten far worse had Durandal not been in charge and revealed that it was Logos that caused the hate and that Normals weren't really at fault(So it no longer became a race war in an instant when he revealed that all sides were being manipulated by Logos). That and him using Meer was what stopped ZAFT from going back to crazy SEED versions. Had he done nothing, as Lacus and Kira chose to do, than the war would have dragged out and the death tolls would be ridiculously larger with Logos never being revealed. After all almost no one knew about Logos let alone did they have the power to oppose them like Durandal had. Don't forget that it was also Durandal's forces that united Normals and Coordinators at long last and it was his forces that took out Logos who were the true manipulators that stood in the way of any progress. His only mistake was attacking Lacus when she was no threat at that time. Though he was right to fear her considering that her force took out the Feds and ZAFT in the last war as rebels and that she had went into hiding instead of womaning up to her many crimes and being judged in a court of law. Which I'm sure, had she done that, she wouldn't have been punished at all considering that she's still widely popular in ZAFT hence why Meer was able to impersonate her to great effect. That and she represented the very rebellious tendencies he wanted to remove and if she revealed herself he couldn't use Meer to calm the people. Which is exactly what happened. And yes, as with all Revolutions those in power must be "convinced" to embrace change or they will never move away from a system that currently benefits only them. |
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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