AnimeSuki Forums

hi no ken Jebus · 2007-05-19, 08:57

Spoiler for ep 2:

Lost · 2007-05-19, 09:04

outlaw97 : Very nice explanation. It's mind boggling to think of it that way, seriously. When I read what you wrote, I was thinking along the lines that the pet just exists in the glasses (VR), the pet just being a projection of the glasses, but something that just occurred to me was that this software, pet, is an object on its own. It exists, is there, with or without the user interfacing glasses. The virus goes for the pet, not for the glasses; and Densuke was alone in the obsolete cyberspace. It also seems that the glasses are not specific to pets; with Yuko being able to interact with the cybercat software. The glasses are an interface between the physical and the cyberworld. Mind boggling.

And to think that kids would be that... creative? Well, I wouldn't say it's impossible (hell we are in the information age), but it's rather hard for me to accept that Yuko could form such a bond to an entity which is essentially dead.

te2rx : I agree, I wouldn't want it to go down that path either. I was just wondering about that Matrix thing, not hoping it would take that path. But something you said :

Quote:

But what's fascinating about Dennou Coil is despite the intangibility of the virtual world, things like virtual pets still resonate highly with and hold great importance to the protagonists. I'm sure they are well aware of the fact that their pets are mere simulated illusions. The protagonists seem to hold the fabricated reality behind the Dennou glasses and objective reality with almost equal weight.

Exactly. When that line between fabicated reality and objective reality blurs, how will reality be defined? Clearly "reality" would have to be redefined. Are the walls real? Well, you can bang into them. But they definitely aren't made of concrete, tho they look like it.

wao · 2007-05-19, 09:08

One thing to keep in mind about the pets is that while the kids can seemingly "touch" them, they can't actually feel what the pets are like (this was mentioned in an interview with Iso, and it's mentioned in episode 2). They don't know whether Densuke feels fluffy or what. What outlaw97 is proposing makes a lot of sense (and makes this show more and more fascinating...)

aorta · 2007-05-19, 12:33

There's a novel called Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge. In the book characters can interact with cyberspace by wearing contact lenses that let them see the virtual world. The virtual world is placed over the top of the real world, which seems to also be the case in Denno Coil. This is a very different approach than the sci-fi novels that make the virtual world a separate place (Neuromancer, Snow Crash, etc.)

outlaw97 · 2007-05-19, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost

outlaw97 : Very nice explanation. It's mind blogging to think of it that way, seriously. When I read what you wrote, I was thinking along the lines that the pet just exists in the glasses (VR), the pet just being a projection of the glasses, but something that just occurred to me was that this software, pet, is an object on its own. It exists, is there, with or without the user interfacing glasses. The virus goes for the pet, not for the glasses; and Densuke was alone in the obsolete cyberspace. It also seems that the glasses are not specific to pets; with Yuko being able to interact with the cybercat software. The glasses are an interface between the physical and the cyberworld. Mind boggling.

And to think that kids would be that... creative? Well, I wouldn't say it's impossible (hell we are in the information age), but it's rather hard for me to accept that Yuko could form such a bond to an entity which is essentially dead.

The problem is, Hollywood and other forms of media have sort of conditioned us to treat the future of cyberspace such that it IS physical, when it really doesn't have to be. The virus attacking the pet is the same regardless if you see it on the street, courtesy of those glasses, versus seeing it on a webpage in a flash animation. It's all perspective. Or to put it another way, there's very little difference between those glasses, and the monitor of your computer. They both provide a visual interface to the Internet. It's just that the glasses have the advantage of superimposing the information onto what you see in real life.

As for Yuko forming a bond, it's not that surprising if you think about it - How else could you explain the Tamagotchi craze, or even Pokemon? Make something cute enough, and kids WILL bond to it.

Quote:

Clearly "reality" would have to be redefined. Are the walls real? Well, you can bang into them. But they definitely aren't made of concrete, tho they look like it.

I think children would recognize a difference between the two, but accept them both as being real. They wouldn't see the point of having to say one thing is more "real" than the other - that's the realm of adults, who love to over-analyze things for their college papers

te2rx · 2007-05-19, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaw97

As for Yuko forming a bond, it's not that surprising if you think about it - How else could you explain the Tamagotchi craze, or even Pokemon? Make something cute enough, and kids WILL bond to it.

yep, I described that aspect of the show as "very cool" because it does parallel modern-day kids and technology. A lot of Dennou Coil's premise parallels modern-day phenomena e.g. kids breaking into and messing around in emerging computer spaces (internet, games), using and trading illegal software, evading security/DRM systems (Searchmaton and his Kyuu-chans), and so on... it makes the world of Dennou Coil very believable and relevant more so than The Matrix or even GitS:SAC. Of course I may be giving the show too much credit after just seeing one ep, but I'm very hyped to see where it goes because the potential is phenominal

7Th · 2007-05-19, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost

outlaw97 : Very nice explanation. It's mind blogging to think of it that way, seriously. When I read what you wrote, I was thinking along the lines that the pet just exists in the glasses (VR), the pet just being a projection of the glasses, but something that just occurred to me was that this software, pet, is an object on its own. It exists, is there, with or without the user interfacing glasses. The virus goes for the pet, not for the glasses; and Densuke was alone in the obsolete cyberspace. It also seems that the glasses are not specific to pets; with Yuko being able to interact with the cybercat software. The glasses are an interface between the physical and the cyberworld. Mind boggling.

And to think that kids would be that... creative? Well, I wouldn't say it's impossible (hell we are in the information age), but it's rather hard for me to accept that Yuko could form such a bond to an entity which is essentially dead.

I think that's what one of the main concepts the show is trying to achieve, the real meaning of existence... not like its anything new to anime mind you but I guess the particular portrayal here is rather interesting due to it lighthearted throughly accepted representation instead of the tragically melancholic one in Lain, GitS or even Digimon first movie, which took on a similar premise to the digital-pet integration in Dennou Coil.

outlaw97 · 2007-05-20, 10:54

Got impatient and saw episode 2. Definitely agree with wao on the blending of old style techniques to their digital counterparts (rolling out a fuda to represent making an antivirus patch). I only hope to be as cool as the granny when I'm that age!

Some additional details flesh out the workings of this cyberspace. Unfortunately, my Japanese wasn't good enough to grasp one point:

Spoiler:

And poor Densuke - Kyoko is more of a threat than any virus to him

wao · 2007-05-20, 11:10

Regarding Sacchi,

Spoiler:

Sonhex · 2007-05-20, 11:27

As wao said ep 2 was even better than ep 1. The animation, early on and especially Fumie's movements, is just incredible. I loved that scene from the PV where they're escaping Sacchi and seeing here in HD is nothing short of awesome. Sacchi was even more threatening that the PV suggested, but I like how Fumie outwits him (knowing his priority is to fix the walls, rather than catch transgressors). Fumie's such a cool character. Well they all are really, Yasako's grandmother especially.

Regarding Yasako's dream of the torii stairway...

Spoiler for ep 2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wao

...

Oh and if you were thinking the cuteness had stopped this episode,

Spoiler:

BTW, it seems like even in the show Dennou -> "Cyber" so, I guess it's good to go wtih Cyber after all.

I can't wait for next week...

Kyouko must be a homage Mei. Everything about her character is so like Mei, from her energetic gasps and giggles to her scampering around the new house ala Totoro. I really did lol when she points to the dinner her mother is pouring out and is about to yell Unchi when her mother stops her ~ excellent comic timing that was.

But despite being so adorably cute at first, Mojos were far more menacing than Totoro's susuwatari. I was really surprised when...

Spoiler for ep2 again:

I purposefully watched the first two episodes back to back. I'm so excited by what I've seen so far, and especially what's to come next week with Isako. It's wonderful that such a enchanting, fresh and creative series like this is airing and that such immense talent is attached to it. This is easily my favourite series of the new season. Considering the other marvels this season that's no mean feat.

te2rx · 2007-05-20, 19:51

Even though I mostly can't understand Japanese, seeing Dennou Coil 2 brought up some really interesting questions about the nature of the show's setting and technology.

First off Fumie uses a metatag to control a stoplight. This means that the electronic infrastructure of the city is tied to the virtual space. This may suggest that the virtual space of Daikoku City is not a separate testing ground of a private tech company's computer network, but a space that's either directly tied to the open internet (of which the city's infrastructure must be a part) or a space tied directly to the local government itself, which may mean Searchmaton (sacchi) is a government-controlled police bot of sorts. (Or not, future episodes may clear this up.) Searchmaton being unable to "trespass" into the temple grounds (and also school grounds?) is an interesting tidbit. I guess certain places can opt out of being part of the city's AR infrastructure. Maybe AR is used extensively in school for educational purposes, of which Searchmaton may get in the way, or maybe it's regulated by a different group/company... dunno, we'll find out later maybe

Seeing Yuuko Okonogi without her dennou glasses on, and later on Densuke's chase with the Mojas (or whatever) made me ponder how AR works in the absence of someone logged in without their glasses. I imagine when someone is "logged in" (e.g. wearing the glasses), the glasses actively record and upload the new layout of the space to some internet database. Densuke and the Mojas seem to react to the placement of boxes and things on the floor during the chase, so this is the only way I can think of how the show can tackle that kind of technical problem unless there are some incredibly futuristic sensors placed all over the city as Outlaw97 suggests (but what a privacy nightmare that must be to implement legally). I wonder if Yuuko wasn't carrying Densuke to safety, would she have been able to simply turn off her dennou glasses and "log off" from AR-land to escape Searchmaton.

Finally,

Spoiler:

...was a big WTF. There's some objectivity/subjectivity confusion in that scene -- I don't really know what that animation was trying to communicate to the viewer. Was her virtual "avatar" being attacked? What happens if it's destroyed? (and then that begs more questions about how tied a virtual avatar must be to the user) Or were her dennou glasses being attacked or damaged, and showing her body glitching out was Dennou Coil's way of conveying that to the audience? What's the repair fee all about? If she was being like physically harmed, then we're flying off into SE:Lain/TehMaetrix "what is real?" land.

There seemed to be some explanation on the virtual currency of the show (metabugs), but I'll have to wait for a fansub to understand it

gaguri · 2007-05-22, 06:36

I LOVED the first episode. It has great and unique artwork, kind of like one of Abe's work, but the thing that grabbed me the most was the setting. Or rather, how they introduced us to this wonderful setting. Slowly, we are introduced to fascinating aspects of this world, like the kid dropping a bag on a dog, only to find out that this pet dog of theirs is not exactly real. Also we later see how their glasses is a device used to see 'cyberstance', that exists within the physical world. It's these fascinating details about the world that we can observe, rather than having someone to explain directly to us, presenting the mechanics and intrigues of this show's world through visual medium. Observations we make and constructing what kind of this world is by infering from them. I think this made for one pleasurable viewing that makes me craving for more.

And we also have another character, who are more experienced in the technology of this world than our 'noob' heroine (haha, I loled at that). Through her she will (and we will too) gain more insights into the technology of this world and how it exploits the show's physical world.

What I'm interested right now is why this show's theme is 'coil a circle of children'. It would be interesting if it turns out that there is a metaphorical meaning behind it.

And I loooooooove the opening song. Although I think opening of Seirei no Morbitio still edges this one out simply because the animation is so awe-inspiring (especially when the hand opens up to reveal a brilliant light of what we take it to be water spirit).

Sonhex · 2007-05-23, 15:35

Has anyone had a chance to listen to the soundtrack? I can't stop listening it. It's one of the best I've heard in recent times that's for sure. I really like the playful adventurous tunes like Torri No Machi and Egao. But some of the more melancholic and dramatic tunes are also amazing, like the wistful Machi No Tomoshibi and in particular the ominous Kanashimi (Sorrow)- perhaps my favourite on the whole album - it's so powerful with the strained violins and the hectic drums. I'm kind of dreading in which context such a piece will be used though.

What's really cool is that the music (like the anime) feels like there's a lot of thought and dedication gone into the themes. It's very solidly composed, inventive and layered with lots of textures and different instruments including some quirky continental acordians and stuff. It reminds me of some of Yann Tierson's Amelie music.

wao · 2007-05-24, 14:26

Just got aroudn to start listening to the soundtrack, and I do like it very much so far. ...Alright, but I've only heard up till Kanashimi (have to go to sleep now). I do like how the strings are used for a delightfully playful effect but there's seriousness inside as well with the full orchestra bits. Kanashimi was beautiful, but I was surprised to hear the full version of Kanashimi no Kako which was the music used when they first showed the train coming into Daikoku City (or was that only in the promo...) It turned out to be a sad song like the title implies, despite sounding happy at first.

The use of strings really reminds me of Tsuneyoshi Saitou's Fafner soundtrack, except a good deal less grand and much more "地味" for lack of a better word for now. It's the tune or whatever you call it he gives them, it's very reminiscent of those tension-inducing staccato string pieces for the Fafner soundtrack. Interestingly enough there's a track in the second disc called Aseri, I remember one of his Fafner things I liked was also called Aseri

A~h, 1.5 more days to more Dennou Coil. I can't wait; and before I get into studying mode (hopefully!) I will definitely get around to updating that coil wiki like nobody's business since school'l be out. So many things to write!

Lost · 2007-05-25, 08:16

May I ask, is the OP included in the OST? And Ureshii has subbed 02.

pagan poor · 2007-05-25, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost

May I ask, is the OP included in the OST? And Ureshii has subbed 02.

Yes, the OP is included, but it's the shortened version.

wao · 2007-05-25, 10:58

I listened to the whole of hte soundtrack. Some tracks do irk me - I'm too tired to go list them all down properly, but some were really breathtakign as well. My general impression is that it does suit the show pretty well (although it sounds alittle too synthy for my tastes in some parts I suppose). If there's anything that may put off listeners it may be the use of all those... goodness, I don't know what it's called in music terminology, but those seemingly unharmonious (?) bursts of strings. And some of those war-drum like things. They were all over in Fafner as well (although personally I liked the Fafner one more I guess, but it felt liek they got more money to make that album...)

It's very curious how they had actually announced the release date of the soundtrack before the anime even aired. I suppose Iso had such a clear picture of what he wanted that Saitou could create the music early on.

BUT. One thing I noticed while I was listening through the tracks. There was one in particular that gave me this sense of deja vu (with the accented a or e or whatever it was, you nitpicker!). A very strong sense of deja vu. It's Yuujou (友情), track 19 of disc 1.

And lo and be hold, when I did a quick re-run through of the Soukyuu no Fafner soundtrack 2 -NOW HERE-, I run into track 29. Mirai-Kako.

I can't upload the tracks here, but if you have heard both of them, you will notice something not exaclty the same, but very eerily similar... unless I am living in some fake world where someone has just planted a different copy of Yuujou in my folder and in reality it sounds totally different! Please, someone here who has both soundtracks, listen as well and tell me I'm not the only one who's hearing EXACTLY THE SAME TUNE and very similar instrumentation and arrangement.

aorta · 2007-05-25, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by wao

BUT. One thing I noticed while I was listening through the tracks. There was one in particular that gave me this sense of deja vu (with the accented a or e or whatever it was, you nitpicker!). A very strong sense of deja vu. It's Yuujou (友情), track 19 of disc 1.

And lo and be hold, when I did a quick re-run through of the Soukyuu no Fafner soundtrack 2 -NOW HERE-, I run into track 29. Mirai-Kako.

I can't upload the tracks here, but if you have heard both of them, you will notice something not exaclty the same, but very eerily similar... unless I am living in some fake world where someone has just planted a different copy of Yuujou in my folder and in reality it sounds totally different! Please, someone here who has both soundtracks, listen as well and tell me I'm not the only one who's hearing EXACTLY THE SAME TUNE and very similar instrumentation and arrangement.

Well it's written by the same person, doesn't sound too uncommon to me.

7Th · 2007-05-25, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wao

I listened to the whole of hte soundtrack. Some tracks do irk me - I'm too tired to go list them all down properly, but some were really breathtakign as well. My general impression is that it does suit the show pretty well (although it sounds alittle too synthy for my tastes in some parts I suppose). If there's anything that may put off listeners it may be the use of all those... goodness, I don't know what it's called in music terminology, but those seemingly unharmonious (?) bursts of strings. And some of those war-drum like things. They were all over in Fafner as well (although personally I liked the Fafner one more I guess, but it felt liek they got more money to make that album...)

I agree, some pieces aren't really that bad but it sounds too video-game like for my tastes, like if took out of a platformer or something. Still very charismatic and fitting though.

Also finally watched the subbed version of episode 2. For a expository episode it was unsurprisingly very good, intriguing and really fun even if at some moments the direction and script felt a little bit too much like if took out of a JRPG, although I'm not sure that's such a bad thing by itself since the involvement they're trying to achieve thus far comes across as very similar as that mood you get from becoming part of a well-done digital fantasy world. The movement was of course obviously going to "feel" better than in the premier considering how much "low-key action" we got this time, specially the final scenes with the mojo's chasing Kyoko or running from Mega-baa inside the house.

te2rx · 2007-05-25, 18:47

well, watching the fansub of ep2 sure taught me something about opening my mouth after seeing raw episodes

Most of my major questions were answered and I updated the wikipedia article. Searchmaton is likely a gov't bot, and he can't enter private spaces. The way Fumie complains how Search shows no understanding or nuance in how it enforces its regulations sounds like a jab at how governments around the world attempt to regulate the internet. Also getting hit by a virtual weapon damages your personal data, which is costly to restore. It sounds like a concept of the future I've heard about where there's no "local" data on your PC (e.g. no hard drives) -- instead your computer accesses all of your data and software stored on the 'net. The world of Dennou Coil may be implementing this idea. Also metabugs were (somewhat) explained.

Spoiler:

Regarding the animation, sometimes it's hard to notice it in the same way you notice it in other productions that contrast conservative moments with explosive "sakuga" scenes. Some cuts still stick out and make me go "woah", but overall the animation cohesion in Dennou Coil's case serves to make things more immersive... for me anyway -- which is strange because I usually have more fun when individual cuts are stylistically flying all over the place. But the way Dennou Coil employs "cohesion" serves to make its world more convincing. I hardly think about the artificiality of animation when I watch it... everything is just real. Yet it's characteristic enough that I don't get dulled by it.

Wao: Regarding musicians repeating themselves in separate songs, it's not that uncommon. As a (hobbyist) composer myself, I often find myself recycling the same melodies or chord progressions without noticing it until days later. The fact that production artists are often tasked to create a large volume of music in a short amount of time probably amplifies that occurrence, since they may have to do so to meet deadlines, or they do it unknowingly at first, but can't go back to change things after the fact.

offtopic: I just realized my new av. looks like it's from The Matrix or something. It's actually from some music album cover art I made.

2007-05-19, 08:57	Link #121
hi no ken Jebus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Spoiler for ep 2: I love that granny she's definitely a force to be reckoned with. Kyoko's cuteness knows no bounds like her operation on Densuke and her constant pointing and calling stuff poop. Next week looks even more promising with the two Yuko girls meeting for the first time.

2007-05-19, 09:08	Link #123
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	One thing to keep in mind about the pets is that while the kids can seemingly "touch" them, they can't actually feel what the pets are like (this was mentioned in an interview with Iso, and it's mentioned in episode 2). They don't know whether Densuke feels fluffy or what. What outlaw97 is proposing makes a lot of sense (and makes this show more and more fascinating...) __________________ Thanks for the fish

2007-05-20, 10:54	Link #128
outlaw97 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004	Got impatient and saw episode 2. Definitely agree with wao on the blending of old style techniques to their digital counterparts (rolling out a fuda to represent making an antivirus patch). I only hope to be as cool as the granny when I'm that age! Some additional details flesh out the workings of this cyberspace. Unfortunately, my Japanese wasn't good enough to grasp one point: Spoiler: Namely, why Satchii couldn't enter past the temple. From what I could understand, it might be intentionally programmed that way? As in, religious places are off-limits? That would make sense - as technology advances, I can see groups protesting against "defiling" their places of worship (although personally I find that view archaic and silly). Now I just wonder whether this "barrier" is software or hardware based. If it's software, it's just simply that Satchii is programmed not to travel past a geographic location, like a no-entry zone marked on its map. If it's hardware based, that would mean that sensors have to be installed all over the city, combined in a mesh-like network. And if a sensor isn't installed in a place, like that shrine, then it can't enter because there's no data there. I'm guessing it's software-based, since Densuke was able to be in the shrine. Also, I like how there are direct links between the cyberspace and real world, as shown with the traffic light. Hack the "virtual" traffic light such that you connect to the traffic system controlling it and cause it to change colors sooner. Obviously, this is where the Matrix comparisons are going to come in, but I think they've made it pretty clear that this can only happen when the object in question is both electronic, and tied to some sort of network. In other words, you're not going to see Yasako walk through a concrete wall. And poor Densuke - Kyoko is more of a threat than any virus to him

2007-05-20, 11:10	Link #129
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	Regarding Sacchi, Spoiler: Sacchi si not allowed inside temples, schools and people's houses according to Fumie. The schools and houses bit I think you can understand, as for temples it's probably because it's purposely kept the way it is - old, as a part of heritage, and they don't want Sacchi automaticallly coming into clean stuff up. It's possible that a bunch of strange things gather there since it's either got no cyberspace or it has a very outdated one. You might remember there being that promo picture of Kyoko and Yasako standing in front of this set of torii (the red entrance things) with IPs on them and the message "Visitors coming expressly for hacking purposes are not welcome" or something like that. __________________ Thanks for the fish

2007-05-20, 19:51	Link #131
te2rx Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago area, IL Age: 40	Even though I mostly can't understand Japanese, seeing Dennou Coil 2 brought up some really interesting questions about the nature of the show's setting and technology. First off Fumie uses a metatag to control a stoplight. This means that the electronic infrastructure of the city is tied to the virtual space. This may suggest that the virtual space of Daikoku City is not a separate testing ground of a private tech company's computer network, but a space that's either directly tied to the open internet (of which the city's infrastructure must be a part) or a space tied directly to the local government itself, which may mean Searchmaton (sacchi) is a government-controlled police bot of sorts. (Or not, future episodes may clear this up.) Searchmaton being unable to "trespass" into the temple grounds (and also school grounds?) is an interesting tidbit. I guess certain places can opt out of being part of the city's AR infrastructure. Maybe AR is used extensively in school for educational purposes, of which Searchmaton may get in the way, or maybe it's regulated by a different group/company... dunno, we'll find out later maybe Seeing Yuuko Okonogi without her dennou glasses on, and later on Densuke's chase with the Mojas (or whatever) made me ponder how AR works in the absence of someone logged in without their glasses. I imagine when someone is "logged in" (e.g. wearing the glasses), the glasses actively record and upload the new layout of the space to some internet database. Densuke and the Mojas seem to react to the placement of boxes and things on the floor during the chase, so this is the only way I can think of how the show can tackle that kind of technical problem unless there are some incredibly futuristic sensors placed all over the city as Outlaw97 suggests (but what a privacy nightmare that must be to implement legally). I wonder if Yuuko wasn't carrying Densuke to safety, would she have been able to simply turn off her dennou glasses and "log off" from AR-land to escape Searchmaton. Finally, Spoiler: Kyouko getting zapped by the mojas... ...was a big WTF. There's some objectivity/subjectivity confusion in that scene -- I don't really know what that animation was trying to communicate to the viewer. Was her virtual "avatar" being attacked? What happens if it's destroyed? (and then that begs more questions about how tied a virtual avatar must be to the user) Or were her dennou glasses being attacked or damaged, and showing her body glitching out was Dennou Coil's way of conveying that to the audience? What's the repair fee all about? If she was being like physically harmed, then we're flying off into SE:Lain/TehMaetrix "what is real?" land. There seemed to be some explanation on the virtual currency of the show (metabugs), but I'll have to wait for a fansub to understand it

2007-05-19, 12:33	Link #124
aorta Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 42	There's a novel called Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge. In the book characters can interact with cyberspace by wearing contact lenses that let them see the virtual world. The virtual world is placed over the top of the real world, which seems to also be the case in Denno Coil. This is a very different approach than the sci-fi novels that make the virtual world a separate place (Neuromancer, Snow Crash, etc.)

2007-05-22, 06:36	Link #132
gaguri Senior Member Join Date: May 2007	I LOVED the first episode. It has great and unique artwork, kind of like one of Abe's work, but the thing that grabbed me the most was the setting. Or rather, how they introduced us to this wonderful setting. Slowly, we are introduced to fascinating aspects of this world, like the kid dropping a bag on a dog, only to find out that this pet dog of theirs is not exactly real. Also we later see how their glasses is a device used to see 'cyberstance', that exists within the physical world. It's these fascinating details about the world that we can observe, rather than having someone to explain directly to us, presenting the mechanics and intrigues of this show's world through visual medium. Observations we make and constructing what kind of this world is by infering from them. I think this made for one pleasurable viewing that makes me craving for more. And we also have another character, who are more experienced in the technology of this world than our 'noob' heroine (haha, I loled at that). Through her she will (and we will too) gain more insights into the technology of this world and how it exploits the show's physical world. What I'm interested right now is why this show's theme is 'coil a circle of children'. It would be interesting if it turns out that there is a metaphorical meaning behind it. And I loooooooove the opening song. Although I think opening of Seirei no Morbitio still edges this one out simply because the animation is so awe-inspiring (especially when the hand opens up to reveal a brilliant light of what we take it to be water spirit).

2007-05-23, 15:35	Link #133
Sonhex Not dead. Yet. Graphic Designer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK	Has anyone had a chance to listen to the soundtrack? I can't stop listening it. It's one of the best I've heard in recent times that's for sure. I really like the playful adventurous tunes like Torri No Machi and Egao. But some of the more melancholic and dramatic tunes are also amazing, like the wistful Machi No Tomoshibi and in particular the ominous Kanashimi (Sorrow)- perhaps my favourite on the whole album - it's so powerful with the strained violins and the hectic drums. I'm kind of dreading in which context such a piece will be used though. What's really cool is that the music (like the anime) feels like there's a lot of thought and dedication gone into the themes. It's very solidly composed, inventive and layered with lots of textures and different instruments including some quirky continental acordians and stuff. It reminds me of some of Yann Tierson's Amelie music.

2007-05-24, 14:26	Link #134
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	Just got aroudn to start listening to the soundtrack, and I do like it very much so far. ...Alright, but I've only heard up till Kanashimi (have to go to sleep now). I do like how the strings are used for a delightfully playful effect but there's seriousness inside as well with the full orchestra bits. Kanashimi was beautiful, but I was surprised to hear the full version of Kanashimi no Kako which was the music used when they first showed the train coming into Daikoku City (or was that only in the promo...) It turned out to be a sad song like the title implies, despite sounding happy at first. The use of strings really reminds me of Tsuneyoshi Saitou's Fafner soundtrack, except a good deal less grand and much more "地味" for lack of a better word for now. It's the tune or whatever you call it he gives them, it's very reminiscent of those tension-inducing staccato string pieces for the Fafner soundtrack. Interestingly enough there's a track in the second disc called Aseri, I remember one of his Fafner things I liked was also called Aseri A~h, 1.5 more days to more Dennou Coil. I can't wait; and before I get into studying mode (hopefully!) I will definitely get around to updating that coil wiki like nobody's business since school'l be out. So many things to write! __________________ Thanks for the fish

2007-05-25, 08:16	Link #135
Lost Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	May I ask, is the OP included in the OST? And Ureshii has subbed 02.

2007-05-25, 10:58	Link #137
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	I listened to the whole of hte soundtrack. Some tracks do irk me - I'm too tired to go list them all down properly, but some were really breathtakign as well. My general impression is that it does suit the show pretty well (although it sounds alittle too synthy for my tastes in some parts I suppose). If there's anything that may put off listeners it may be the use of all those... goodness, I don't know what it's called in music terminology, but those seemingly unharmonious (?) bursts of strings. And some of those war-drum like things. They were all over in Fafner as well (although personally I liked the Fafner one more I guess, but it felt liek they got more money to make that album...) It's very curious how they had actually announced the release date of the soundtrack before the anime even aired. I suppose Iso had such a clear picture of what he wanted that Saitou could create the music early on. BUT. One thing I noticed while I was listening through the tracks. There was one in particular that gave me this sense of deja vu (with the accented a or e or whatever it was, you nitpicker!). A very strong sense of deja vu. It's Yuujou (友情), track 19 of disc 1. And lo and be hold, when I did a quick re-run through of the Soukyuu no Fafner soundtrack 2 -NOW HERE-, I run into track 29. Mirai-Kako. I can't upload the tracks here, but if you have heard both of them, you will notice something not exaclty the same, but very eerily similar... unless I am living in some fake world where someone has just planted a different copy of Yuujou in my folder and in reality it sounds totally different! Please, someone here who has both soundtracks, listen as well and tell me I'm not the only one who's hearing EXACTLY THE SAME TUNE and very similar instrumentation and arrangement. __________________ Thanks for the fish

2007-05-25, 18:47	Link #140
te2rx Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago area, IL Age: 40	well, watching the fansub of ep2 sure taught me something about opening my mouth after seeing raw episodes Most of my major questions were answered and I updated the wikipedia article. Searchmaton is likely a gov't bot, and he can't enter private spaces. The way Fumie complains how Search shows no understanding or nuance in how it enforces its regulations sounds like a jab at how governments around the world attempt to regulate the internet. Also getting hit by a virtual weapon damages your personal data, which is costly to restore. It sounds like a concept of the future I've heard about where there's no "local" data on your PC (e.g. no hard drives) -- instead your computer accesses all of your data and software stored on the 'net. The world of Dennou Coil may be implementing this idea. Also metabugs were (somewhat) explained. Spoiler: and yeah, it was a cool episode. We're starting to see an overarching conflict come into play -- the "keyhole" that resides within densuke as a bug/virus, Yuuko's forgotten "brother", and the mystery of the metabugs. I was wondering if the show would be the episodic adventures of the cyber pet detectives or an arching adventure regarding the mysteries of the 3D internet... sounds like it'll be the latter. Regarding the animation, sometimes it's hard to notice it in the same way you notice it in other productions that contrast conservative moments with explosive "sakuga" scenes. Some cuts still stick out and make me go "woah", but overall the animation cohesion in Dennou Coil's case serves to make things more immersive... for me anyway -- which is strange because I usually have more fun when individual cuts are stylistically flying all over the place. But the way Dennou Coil employs "cohesion" serves to make its world more convincing. I hardly think about the artificiality of animation when I watch it... everything is just real. Yet it's characteristic enough that I don't get dulled by it. Wao: Regarding musicians repeating themselves in separate songs, it's not that uncommon. As a (hobbyist) composer myself, I often find myself recycling the same melodies or chord progressions without noticing it until days later. The fact that production artists are often tasked to create a large volume of music in a short amount of time probably amplifies that occurrence, since they may have to do so to meet deadlines, or they do it unknowingly at first, but can't go back to change things after the fact. offtopic: I just realized my new av. looks like it's from The Matrix or something. It's actually from some music album cover art I made. Last edited by te2rx; 2007-05-25 at 19:08.