AnimeSuki Forums

WanderingKnight · 2007-10-21, 09:54

Quote:

You're trying to argue that we should dismantle social and legal constructs for the sake of one person's imagination. They can pretend to be married all they want, but they can't actually be married.

Again, marriage life is what YOU conceive it to be. You're the one giving it its value and its shape, you're the one constructing it, not your neighbor. Each married couple carries away their marital life in a different manner--there's not, in practice, a "socially correct" way of living in marriage (actually, there exists an ideal in the collective consciousness of society, but it's never achieved). And if people want to construct their own marital life with a robot, who the hell am I to stop them, or worse, to tell them that it's not a real marriage? What the hell is a real marriage, anyways?

That has absolutely nothing to do with my (or your) thinking that it might be a bit silly, or even an outright stupid thing to do. But it's not my (or your) place to challenge the decision. It doesn't hurt anyone.

ChainLegacy · 2007-10-21, 11:30

I heard this on the radio and laughed pretty hard. But hey, if it's your thing, I definitely won't stop you. I might be getting up there in age anyways...

OutPhase · 2007-10-21, 15:18

I doubt that robots will even be that advanced in 100 years, much less in 50 years. I would never personally say that "We will be doing so-and-so casually by blah blah blah". Remember that back than people were saying that we would be living on the moon by now as if it were nothing out of the ordinary.

"In the future, people will inhabit the moon and it will be a high-class entertainment resort."

"In the future, Holy Matrimony between a man/woman and a machine will be a fairly common sight."

I'm can definitely tell that this will be a reality in 2050.

Besides, marriage should not be wasted between a person and someone who isn't even an actual living being. If people were to expect tax benefits from marrying a machine, I honestly hope that they would be laughed at right in their face. A marriage is already expensive on its own anyway. It's a glorified way of squandering away money.

2H-Dragon · 2007-10-21, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

See, the fun thing is that humans are machines themselves. Organic rather than mechanical, but still machines. What really separates us is our consciousness.

Oh what a fun day it will be when a robot demonstrates sentience. I really hope I live long enough to see that.

...

I don't really get what your point has to do with what I wrote.

Maids! Maids! Maids! · 2007-10-21, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

...

I don't really get what your point has to do with what I wrote.

Really?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/d/descarte.htm

Once a machine becomes self-aware, it opens up a pretty big can of worms. We may have to rethink what it means to be human when the ghost (consciousness, the knowledge of being) is literally in the machine. Maybe it is because it thinks it is.

2H-Dragon · 2007-10-21, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maids! Maids! Maids!

Really?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/d/descarte.htm

Once a machine becomes self-aware, it opens up a pretty big can of worms. We may have to rethink what it means to be human when the ghost (consciousness, the knowledge of being) is literally in the machine. Maybe it is because it thinks it is.

Yeah, but a machine getting a consciousness is pretty much a fable. Which makes it a moo point.

The most you can get is that you make it look like it has a consciousness.

WanderingKnight · 2007-10-21, 16:35

Quote:

Yeah, but a machine getting a consciousness is pretty much a fable. Which makes it a moo point.

Let me present you with the following analogy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Middle Ages Average Joe

Yeah, but something like that "computer" you're talking about there is pretty much a fable. Which makes it a moot point.

Thrasher187 · 2007-10-21, 18:58

I doubt it. They said we'll be driving flying cars by 2000. They were wrong...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Oh what a fun day it will be when a robot demonstrates sentience. I really hope I live long enough to see that.

Yes, that would be nice if that happened. Just don't give them free will. If you do then they'll take over the world (See The AniMatrix and IRobot).

For robots:
Sentence=good
Free Will=bad...very bad

FatPianoBoy · 2007-10-21, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

...

I don't really get what your point has to do with what I wrote.

You said a robot isn't "registered" as a person (I guess this means a social security number or equivalent), and I was pointing out how blurry that line could potentially become.

Honestly, I think that a self-aware machine is possible, but that science will intentionally restrict itself from creating one due to the moral, ethical, and legal complications. Of course, it only takes one nut to take that extra step, so maybe it's unavoidable.

WanderingKnight · 2007-10-21, 19:03

Quote:

I doubt it. They said we'll be driving flying cars by 2000. They were wrong...

That just aids my point on the impossibility of predicting future advancements. So firmly denying the possibility of robotic sentience would have the same standing as the flying-cars society in the year 2000.

Kyuusai · 2007-10-21, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Yeah, but a machine getting a consciousness is pretty much a fable. Which makes it a moo point.

The most you can get is that you make it look like it has a consciousness.

To those who take athiestic standpoints, humans are merely machines that appear to have consciousness or consciousness is having that same logic.

Vexx · 2007-10-21, 21:12

Some of the arguments being presented here are making unintended cases for humans just being organic automatons with a sense of self-awareness but that line of thought might garner me another "ad hominem" negrep

hobbes_fan · 2007-10-22, 07:27

I just want it to make me breakfast in the morning.
Srsly though I also wonder what this will do to the world's oldest profession and the porn industry of the future.

Hotaru Suzume · 2007-10-22, 08:49

It'll probably happen sometime, it could well omit any trouble of having to look for "the right one".
However, it is like with gaming, just as there is no CPU player better than a human one, there won't be any robot better for sex than a real human. Though at least a robot won't be fussed about what strange paraphilias you might have (just as a CPU in a game doesn't care if you use an aimbot, cheats, hacks etc.), lol.

As for marriage with said robots, I think it'd take a good many years to become legal anyway, just as how gay marriage is only recently allowed, and even then only in a small number of nations.

kitto-chan · 2007-10-23, 22:51

Looks like this thread deviated from it intended course a bit. I don't mind the union of man and a sentient being , but I will not accept a union of man and a robot. As others have pointed out, robots will eventually have better AI but still that is not free will. Consciousness is needed for me to accept you as an equal, firstly; secondly, the ability to understand freedom. I stress the second part because a robot that was purchase or built and commanded to be wed is no different than another being in bondage.

While robots will definitely have better AI in the future, I seriously doubt there will have consciousness. And if they will develop consciousness, it will not be in our or our children's lifetime.

With that said, I want (Nsfw)this

Vexx · 2007-10-24, 02:50

@kitto-chan: I'll agree with that as long as we posit that it is theoretically possible for an inorganic to be conscious. I suspect what we'll see is a bit of cheating down the road... that androids will have a neural net core that contains organic material (if not directly neuronal structures). Given that even ants exhibit individuality and a form of consciousness -- it isn't much of a stretch to imagine an organic neural net core supported by a significant database declaring itself "conscious"....

... and then the legal battles will begin

Watched the link to the "sexy robot" ... even allowing for her being unable to leave her "wall" that was freaking amazing ... I didn't get the "uncanny valley" feeling much at all watching her.
Of course, she's completely scripted, but impressive bit of "illusion".

Loniat · 2007-10-24, 04:12

Here is a scoop from the future: robots (you could also call them androids, since in part I agree with Vexx that you could probably introduce organic matter to induce the randomness that we call individuality, although I believe the same process can be achieved by other “electronic “means ) who exhibit what we call conscience and individuality will have initially very high prices, but as prices drop everyone will be able to afford a couple of them.
Strange and questionable situations will arise, akin to the ones seen in the past, when some humans were treated as slaves. After all, how can you oblige a sentient being of getting married to you against its will?
Soon enough society will declare that robots have a conscience and cannot be submitted to other’s person will, and sales of them will drop sharply due to new restrictions. The invisible hand of the market economy will adjust this situation, and companies will start constructing non sentient robots again.
Some people are not be happy with this and will get pirated “personas”. As the pirated market grows, the governments decide to completely forbid the manufacturing of robots.
So, this sounds more like an Asimov novel than I would like, but sometimes I fell like science fiction is becoming reality, although without the excitement.

**Solace** · 2007-10-24, 04:37

People have sex with robots already. Granted they are not Jude Law but they do their job.

Love and Marriage is entirely different. I don't see it happening, although I'm sure some would try. People try to marry animals so this isn't a stretch. I don't doubt that science will have better robots by then either.

The real issue is that ethics will get in the way, just like it does for gay marriage. You'll have many people that either hate robots or the idea in general.

In case anyone didn't get the reference, watch A.I.

OutPhase · 2007-10-24, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

That just aids my point on the impossibility of predicting future advancements. So firmly denying the possibility of robotic sentience would have the same standing as the flying-cars society in the year 2000.

Let's not forget about living on the moon casually by the 1980s.

Sazelyt · 2007-10-24, 22:50

Well, if they are going to produce those robots with human genetics in core why not?

I don't know about the level those robots will be capable of thinking, but I guess anyone using it for the two purposes given in the thread heading would not care about how it achieves in those aspects. And, I guess if those robots can be in working condition regarding how they perform in reproduction, then it will take the most powerful argument the conservatives will have - whether they can be family or not. Of course that is true, if those people can move beyond the point of cloning. Wouldn't it be nice to give those conservatives a robot that is created using the most important pieces of a human clone? At least the end result would be a world better than what the Matrix movie presents.

2007-10-21, 21:12	Link #72
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Some of the arguments being presented here are making unintended cases for humans just being organic automatons with a sense of self-awareness but that line of thought might garner me another "ad hominem" negrep __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-10-22, 07:27	Link #73
hobbes_fan You could say..... Join Date: Apr 2007	I just want it to make me breakfast in the morning. Srsly though I also wonder what this will do to the world's oldest profession and the porn industry of the future. __________________ *Before you ask "How do I convert fansubs to...." see the following* MP4 - http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=47693 Convert AVI/MKV/MP4 to DVD http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26308

2007-10-24, 02:50	Link #76
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	@kitto-chan: I'll agree with that as long as we posit that it is theoretically possible for an inorganic to be conscious. I suspect what we'll see is a bit of cheating down the road... that androids will have a neural net core that contains organic material (if not directly neuronal structures). Given that even ants exhibit individuality and a form of consciousness -- it isn't much of a stretch to imagine an organic neural net core supported by a significant database declaring itself "conscious".... ... and then the legal battles will begin Watched the link to the "sexy robot" ... even allowing for her being unable to leave her "wall" that was freaking amazing ... I didn't get the "uncanny valley" feeling much at all watching her. Of course, she's completely scripted, but impressive bit of "illusion". __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-10-24, 04:12	Link #77
Loniat Paranoid Android Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wherever you go, there you are	Here is a scoop from the future: robots (you could also call them androids, since in part I agree with Vexx that you could probably introduce organic matter to induce the randomness that we call individuality, although I believe the same process can be achieved by other “electronic “means ) who exhibit what we call conscience and individuality will have initially very high prices, but as prices drop everyone will be able to afford a couple of them. Strange and questionable situations will arise, akin to the ones seen in the past, when some humans were treated as slaves. After all, how can you oblige a sentient being of getting married to you against its will? Soon enough society will declare that robots have a conscience and cannot be submitted to other’s person will, and sales of them will drop sharply due to new restrictions. The invisible hand of the market economy will adjust this situation, and companies will start constructing non sentient robots again. Some people are not be happy with this and will get pirated “personas”. As the pirated market grows, the governments decide to completely forbid the manufacturing of robots. So, this sounds more like an Asimov novel than I would like, but sometimes I fell like science fiction is becoming reality, although without the excitement. __________________ Team AnimeSuki Folding@Home

2007-10-24, 04:37	Link #78
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	People have sex with robots already. Granted they are not Jude Law but they do their job. Love and Marriage is entirely different. I don't see it happening, although I'm sure some would try. People try to marry animals so this isn't a stretch. I don't doubt that science will have better robots by then either. The real issue is that ethics will get in the way, just like it does for gay marriage. You'll have many people that either hate robots or the idea in general. In case anyone didn't get the reference, watch A.I. __________________

2007-10-21, 11:30	Link #62
ChainLegacy 廉頗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Massachusetts Age: 34	I heard this on the radio and laughed pretty hard. But hey, if it's your thing, I definitely won't stop you. I might be getting up there in age anyways...

2007-10-21, 15:18	Link #63
OutPhase Lord Chairman God King Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Do you really give a damn?	I doubt that robots will even be that advanced in 100 years, much less in 50 years. I would never personally say that "We will be doing so-and-so casually by blah blah blah". Remember that back than people were saying that we would be living on the moon by now as if it were nothing out of the ordinary. "In the future, people will inhabit the moon and it will be a high-class entertainment resort." "In the future, Holy Matrimony between a man/woman and a machine will be a fairly common sight." I'm can definitely tell that this will be a reality in 2050. Besides, marriage should not be wasted between a person and someone who isn't even an actual living being. If people were to expect tax benefits from marrying a machine, I honestly hope that they would be laughed at right in their face. A marriage is already expensive on its own anyway. It's a glorified way of squandering away money.

2007-10-22, 08:49	Link #74
Hotaru Suzume Ten oorlog! Artist Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 70° to your left. Age: 32	It'll probably happen sometime, it could well omit any trouble of having to look for "the right one". However, it is like with gaming, just as there is no CPU player better than a human one, there won't be any robot better for sex than a real human. Though at least a robot won't be fussed about what strange paraphilias you might have (just as a CPU in a game doesn't care if you use an aimbot, cheats, hacks etc.), lol. As for marriage with said robots, I think it'd take a good many years to become legal anyway, just as how gay marriage is only recently allowed, and even then only in a small number of nations.

2007-10-23, 22:51	Link #75
kitto-chan 很快是工程師 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ゴミ箱の存在の他の平野	Looks like this thread deviated from it intended course a bit. I don't mind the union of man and a sentient being , but I will not accept a union of man and a robot. As others have pointed out, robots will eventually have better AI but still that is not free will. Consciousness is needed for me to accept you as an equal, firstly; secondly, the ability to understand freedom. I stress the second part because a robot that was purchase or built and commanded to be wed is no different than another being in bondage. While robots will definitely have better AI in the future, I seriously doubt there will have consciousness. And if they will develop consciousness, it will not be in our or our children's lifetime. With that said, I want (Nsfw)this

2007-10-24, 22:50	Link #80
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	Well, if they are going to produce those robots with human genetics in core why not? I don't know about the level those robots will be capable of thinking, but I guess anyone using it for the two purposes given in the thread heading would not care about how it achieves in those aspects. And, I guess if those robots can be in working condition regarding how they perform in reproduction, then it will take the most powerful argument the conservatives will have - whether they can be family or not. Of course that is true, if those people can move beyond the point of cloning. Wouldn't it be nice to give those conservatives a robot that is created using the most important pieces of a human clone? At least the end result would be a world better than what the Matrix movie presents.