Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Double T]

I think people are not giving enough attention to the many hints in this episode:
First off the mansion. Why is it so big, yet so empty inside? Normally, there should be tons of useless things in a noble´s mansion like bookshelves, statues, at least some kind of big vase or something...but there is nothing. Also, most of the rooms seem to be exactly the same, which is pretty strange. I think this whole mansion is just a decoy which has yet to reveal his real form and intention...
Did you notice that Sakai mentioned that he thought that the mansion looked pretty new to him, as if it was build not a long time ago?
Next thing is the bracelet, which has bothered me since I first saw it on Konoe. This episode just confirms that there has to be some kind of meaning behind it, maybe it is even the key behind the mystery of Konoe, but I just can´t figure out what it is for...
About Konoe herself, am I the only one who finds it strange that she doesn´t seem to remember Satou? Also her reply, that if it´s about yuji, she remembers, sounded a little bit strange to me…

Well, the biggest question now would be why? What purpose has Konoe for the main story or the Bal Masque? I think isolation from shana is the main reason, and that works just perfectly. If Shana is not around Yuji, it is quite easy to kidnap him and steal the Reiji Maigo without shana even noticing until it is too late. We know also that Shanas fighting abilitys are influenced by her emotions, which means that right now she is vulnerable and not even able to defend herself against stronger enemys. So, instead of sending a whole army of tomogara after yuji to kidnap him with force, they took the option of sneaking up to him, which is imo a much more intelligent approach.

The only real issue I have with the story right now are the characters actions, as they are a little bit too weird for my taste. Yuji seems magically drawn to Konoe, even the teacher said that he spends a lot of time with her, yet he doesn´t seem to realize. I know he just wants to help and all, but even he should have realized until now, that the more he stays with Konoe, the more he gets isolated from Sahna and the rest. Yoshida already confessed to Yuji, yet she seems too afraid to ask him what kind of feelings he harbours for Konoe. I mean, if you already had the guts to confess, then such a question should be simple to ask.

One last thing that bothered me: did you notice that black car? It was twice in this episode and I even think it was shown before when Konoe appeared for the first time. I don´t know if this is a hint or just my imagination, but still it caught my attention.
Overall I think it was a good episode with all these hints and I really hope the characters snap out of it by the next episode so we can move onto the main story.

PS: Hey, my first post in this forum! Looks like the end of me being a lurker here...

[grey_moon]

@Double T - I thought the same things too in regards to this epi. I really am thinking that the writers built up this whole situation as a platform to launch us into the next stage of the story.

Grats on your first post!

[Skane]

Oh thank goodness, so I was not the only one perturbed by the "overfocus" on the black car.

Cheers.

[fuzzles]

6/10

wtf was that i can't believed the episode ended there! sigh filller oh well : ( i think konoe's arc started too soon or they're taking they're time with it orsomething the series is starting off boring if i didn't watch season 1 there'd be no way i'd continue watching this i guess they're relying on season 1 fans to keep interest by themselves

on another note i am liking the development of wilhelmina and yuuji's mom being a wise one again

[Kiyoru]

meh, it was an okay episode. Not one of my favourites though. I thought it was pretty funny when Wilhelmina was cooking though, trying to be serious. especially when Shana walked in and the battle music started, when it turned out to be her cooking ;p

k, I'm getting sick of Shana now. I was a fan of her to begin with, but she's being selfish now. She really thinks Yuuji likes Konoe, but he's only looking after her, because the teacher asked him, surely she should understand that.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Double T

I think people are not giving enough attention to the many hints in this episode:
First off the mansion. Why is it so big, yet so empty inside? Normally, there should be tons of useless things in a noble´s mansion like bookshelves, statues, at least some kind of big vase or something...but there is nothing. Also, most of the rooms seem to be exactly the same, which is pretty strange. I think this whole mansion is just a decoy which has yet to reveal his real form and intention...
Did you notice that Sakai mentioned that he thought that the mansion looked pretty new to him, as if it was build not a long time ago?

Are you a noble to say what should be in there?

Yuuji didn't look through the entire mansion.

Nothing a good clean can't do. *points to Hayate no Gotoku*

[Guardian Enzo]

It's interesting to see the complaints about S II, especially as compared to ZnT. That show, I think, suffered in part because it was overrated - frankly, ZnT wasn't all that special to begin with. Ironically, it was perfectly suited to a second season - it's not like that was tampering with anything sacred, and there were some unanswered questions left hanging. But as it turned out there just wasn't enough in that story or those characters to sustain it - ZnT was pleasant brain candy, but no more - I made it through about 2 eps of S2 before what I disliked about S1 (Zero's screeching bitchiness, the shallowness of the relationships) made it unbearable.

Shana, OTOH, really was pretty special - a rare combination of genres that actually worked. The harem, the moe heroine, the supernatural, the action-packed, school-life relationship drama... Everything but giant mecha, pretty much. And it worked. So maybe S II has suffered not from the inflated memories that ZnT did, but from unrealistically high expectations. I'm all about character development and plot over action, normally, but S II feels too... domesticated. I enjoy the "mundane" character interactions a lot, but they worked better as a counterpoint to the fast-paced action than they have as the core of the show. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it - Willy's bizarre self-reflections, Yuuji's cluelessness, Shana's adolescent moodiness. But it is missing that savage edge SI had. Oh, well - nothing an appearance by Khamsin couldn't cure...

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It's interesting to see the complaints about S II, especially as compared to ZnT. That show, I think, suffered in part because it was overrated - frankly, ZnT wasn't all that special to begin with. Ironically, it was perfectly suited to a second season - it's not like that was tampering with anything sacreligious, and there were some unanswered questions left hanging. But as it turned out there just wasn't enough in that story or those characters to sustain it - ZnT was pleasant brain candy, but no more - I made it through about 2 eps of S2 before what I disliked about S1 (Zero's screeching bitchiness, the shallowness of the relationships) made it unbearable.

Shana, OTOH, really was pretty special - a rare combination of genres that actually worked. The harem, the moe heroine, the supernatural, the action-packed, school-life relationship drama... Everything but giant mecha, pretty much. And it worked. So maybe S II has suffered not from the inflated memories that ZnT did, but from unrealistically high expectations. I'm all about character development and plot over action, normally, but S II feels too... domesticated. I enjoy the "mundane" character interactions a lot, but they worked better as a counterpoint to the fast-paced action than they have as the core of the show. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it - Willy's bizarre self-reflections, Yuuji's cluelessness, Shana's adolescent moodiness. But it is missing that savage edge SI had. Oh, well - nothing an appearance by Khamsin couldn't cure...

I think you make good points, although I think we have had a little bit of that edge early on with Shana's cold-blooded test of Konoe. Because it's only ep. 5, the two recent episodes preoccupation with jealousy seems to fill up more of the series than hopefully will end up being the case. And I'm hoping we will eventually have an action-orientated payoff when Bal Masque finally springs whatever trap it's planning--I think we're getting a lot of foreshadowing of that with the mystery behind Konoe, and Yuuji's own growing abilities. But things do feel like they're dragging, right now--it sounds like they'll resolve the jealousy thing in ep. 6, but they should have done that in this ep. I was in fact expecting Chigusa to do that this episode.

[Double T]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Are you a noble to say what should be in there?

Yuuji didn't look through the entire mansion.

Nothing a good clean can't do. *points to Hayate no Gotoku*

Are you doubting my blood?!
Just kidding, I never was in the house of a noble, but from tv and books I would normally expect to see some more antiques lying around.
It´s true we haven´t seen the whole mansion, but the way this scene was presented plus the reaction of Yuji just make me think that something is odd. After all, if Konoe really just turns out to be a normal girl without any relation with the Bal Masque, I would really have to question the sense of the whole Konoe-arc, as it would pretty much be pointless story-wise.

On another note it would be really funny if they made a "Yuji no Gotoku" with Alastor as Klaus, Shana as Nagi, Wilhelmina as Maria, Konoe as Isumi and Yoshida as Nishizawa...endless possibilities

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Kiyoru

meh, it was an okay episode. Not one of my favourites though. I thought it was pretty funny when Wilhelmina was cooking though, trying to be serious. especially when Shana walked in and the battle music started, when it turned out to be her cooking ;p

k, I'm getting sick of Shana now. I was a fan of her to begin with, but she's being selfish now. She really thinks Yuuji likes Konoe, but he's only looking after her, because the teacher asked him, surely she should understand that.

Um, actually, Yuji and Fumina kicked it off a day before the teacher asked him to look after her.

[Master Chibi]

Some of you are going waaaaaaaaay too far in hopes of properly explaining the justification for dragging this moronic means of character development on for three+ episodes. At this point I don't give a damn for Konoe because they just shoved her into the story and all I saw was this huge sigin on her that said:

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

This whole deal with walking around and taking her books out and all that makes me feel like Konoe has downs instead of her being some sheltered rich girl who hasn't seen the light of day outside of her money bin. It's a sorry excuse for character development and I wish they'd hurry up and expose her for whatever she's really supposed to be.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Some of you are going waaaaaaaaay too far in hopes of properly explaining the justification for dragging this moronic means of character development on for three+ episodes. At this point I don't give a damn for Konoe because they just shoved her into the story and all I saw was this huge sigin on her that said:

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

This whole deal with walking around and taking her books out and all that makes me feel like Konoe has downs instead of her being some sheltered rich girl who hasn't seen the light of day outside of her money bin. It's a sorry excuse for character development and I wish they'd hurry up and expose her for whatever she's really supposed to be.

Sheesh, you make Fumina sound like a prostitute.

[Guido]

I really can't understand why many of you are underrating and bashing the current arc. It's true that the pace has significantly slowed down since episode four, and we haven't seen anymore progress from Bal Masque.

I do not feel very bothered about Konoe's walk-me-into-the-school-routine. The animation staff place her to appear at Yuuji's school and is clinging to Yuuji for a very good reason.

The current arc is focusing to explore on the recurrent characters as well. I think this episode did a wonderful job on showing how Wilhelmina has started to learn how to be open and pour her emotions into her daily chores.

Spoiler:

The current arc is clearly dealing with the troubles and conflicting emotions that kids undergo during the transitional stage of puberty and teenage years.

It really makes sense how Shana has become transiently into a troubled teen due that Yuuji overlooks he's investing his care and attention to Konoe but at the same time neglecting Shana and Kazumi.

Like any ordinary teen Shana tries to cope with that frustration by immersing alone in her solitude, as Wilhelmina tries to pry in to check for a logic reason to Shana's behavior.
The result like in any other parent-child relationship is that Shana lashes out to Wilhelmina for bugging her to much and not being considerate about her current state. Walking down the streets, Wilhelmina was stuck and did not know what to do to treat Shana until Chigusa approached her.

Wilhelmina is like the odd-ball mother who doesn't know too much about pouring emotions into her work or how treat her child in dealing with Shana's current frustration.

Second, Ike confronted Yuuji and remarked to the latter to make him conscious that he should not pay too much attention on Konoe at the expense of neglecting both Shana and Kazumi.

Spoiler:

I'll overlook up to this episode that Yuuji has been inconsiderate to Shana and Kazumi.
I believe the main trouble with Yuuji is that he puts himself too much in need of any other that requires more attention. It is not bad, but I'm feeling that he's starting to sin too much about it.

And it is a pretty bad idea that he allows Konoe to cling onto him too easily upon Shana and Kazumi watching them, because he's still thick-headed that both girls are feeling jealousy and brushed away.

Then, we have a little bit of progress on the Ogata x Eita pairing, but not a solid outcome has bore fruit in their relationship. Mataku! Those two need a little push so they can start going along as a couple.

Finally, to conclude my post they hinted that Konoe's place is more than meets the eye.

Spoiler:

If anyone paid attention, the camera shot at the butler's right hand, and the frame stood still a few seconds to focus that he wears a sort of wristband.

I don't know, but I get the feeling I have seen that item from somewhere before.

Next, as you pays attention inside the manor he checks the rooms and is troubled, according on what he said to Ogata, that the few rooms he managed to see all look vacant and empty. However, my thoughts were upon watching the rooms that all look the same as if it was the same room recycled n times.

That incident with Konoe's house is easily not to forget about on me, because it happens at the middle of a character development crisis and much of the attention the audience places is centered upon the Konoe x Yuuji x Shana | Kazumi rectangle.
Probably, there won't be any progress on the weird nature of Konoe's house and her until a faraway episode.

Honestly, I thought the episode would have Yuuji inviting for dinner at his home due to the title, but appearances were deceiving. It's possible that on the next episode the mayhem referred in the title actually means a sort of trouble that the would be experiencing that will have nothing to do with the actual battles.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Sheesh, you make Fumina sound like a prostitute.

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

I don't understand why:

It was the phrase you used. Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

Unquote.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

I wonder what Yuji's reaction will be when Konoe's true face is shown.

Personally speaking I'm not the type of guy that believes in coincidences.

[DazarGaidin]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

This post is full of win, i was laughing so hard at number 3. I dont care how rich and spoiled you are, you dont turn into a freaking retard, which is what they make her out to be. Dont they have special education classes where people do what Yuji is essentially doing for her.

[Eisdrache]

God ... GOD I wonder how slow an anime main character can be ...

I am sorry for using strong words like that but if I EVER see someone again posting something like: "I want more action in this action show" I will punch his face with a baseball bat. SnS never intended to be an action series, but more focused on character development.

OnTopic:

I dont know how much experience in love you have but this is probably the first time Shana and Yoshida really like someone. You expect them to take all the courage and confront Yuji directly by saying him what bothers you? Like hell someone would do that in this state of confusion/jealousy. Some of you tend to forget that this is taking place in a high-school where not everyone already got love experience.

[kauldron26]

this is one of those times when a second season suckage ends up taking points from our love of the first season. School Rumble is a Prime example. except shana first season was merely entertaining with no substance to begin with.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

God ... GOD I wonder how slow an anime main character can be ...

I am sorry for using strong words like that but if I EVER see someone again posting something like: "I want more action in this action show" I will punch his face with a baseball bat. SnS never intended to be an action series, but more focused on character development.

OnTopic:

I dont know how much experience in love you have but this is probably the first time Shana and Yoshida really like someone. You expect them to take all the courage and confront Yuji directly by saying him what bothers you? Like hell someone would do that in this state of confusion/jealousy. Some of you tend to forget that this is taking place in a high-school where not everyone already got love experience.

I know what you mean, although the action scenes are well done, it's not essentially the main focus of the show. Those who'd prefer more action in Shana, really isn't appreciating the show for what it actually is.

As for confronting Yuji about his feelings for Konoe, certainly I wouldn't expect the girls to do that.

The one dissapointing thing about this ep was that nothing happened and i don't mean action wise but really nothing actually happened in terms of character development. Despite how many people are a fan of Wilhemina, she's essentially a side character, what I wanted in this ep was more development for the love square issue, but instead we got the same thing happening from ep 4. I would of liked Shana and Yoshida to at least start talking or devising a plan to get Yuji back, but instead they are still silently enjoying each other's company.

Originally Posted by kauldron26

this is one of those times when a second season suckage ends up taking points from our love of the first season. School Rumble is a Prime example. except shana first season was merely entertaining with no substance to begin with.

I have to disagree completely. No substance? Are you kidding me! Shakugan no Shana is all about substance and is what differentiates this show from all the other shounen shows out there. The whole theme of the show, about the torches and powers of existence deals with one of the deepest philosophy's of Existentialism. The concept of torches and normal humans asks the question what it really means to be you. Are you still you even though you're a torch and the real you is dead?

The concept of how individual human beings create the meanings and essence of their own lives is prevalent in Yuji's behaviour and actions, seeking acceptance and believing in his own existence.

The symbolism of the torches and the flame hazes are all indications as flames are used as a metaphor for our lives and our existence.

The relationship development between the characters are nice to and we get to see Shana gradually progress and slowly come out of her shell.

Shana has no substance?! Shana is all about substance and I think you've just been blinded by all the pretty action scenes.