(L) Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou [WN]

[Xacual]

I just can't see Kaori joining Hajime's group. Like I said earlier, if she did the class would be fucked and to be honest from how the author has been doing it, it seems like he intends to keep the classmate side running as long as possible to show the "human side" of the war.

Also to be honest I just think Kaori's ship has sailed. Yue and Hajime are pretty much a couple now, Kaori would have problems accepting that even beyond what we see from Shia from time to time. I'm pretty sure Hajime's party will pick up a healer/barrier expert and it's not going to be Kaori.

On the case of Yue though, I highly doubt her magic stat changed considerably during their clear of Orcus. The entire point was that her magic was monstrous, which is why they sealed her. Also her and Kaori are within 5 levels of each other, that's hardly a big difference.

[bones]

Actually, i think Yue is going to die and kick off the second war of the gods

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I've mentioned it before, but yes I agree, since she has much less experience than Hajime's group, we know her magic doesn't equal theirs as things stand. But you've made a few assumptions that may or may not come true and ignored some important novel facts.




1. Hajime's level went over 100. The same could happen to anyone else from his class if they eat and survive monster meat. And its not yet actually been confirmed that its related to the monster meat or maybe related to him being from a 'higher plane' instead.

2. We learned early on the more you use your magic, the more your magic stat increases. Since its not only dependent on one's level increasing, we don't actually know for certain if she's close to her max limit. Kouki's 3x skill certainly allows for stats to go over any perceived limit he may have, so we know one's level may not matter when it comes to a stat's limits.

3. According to the novel, Kaori's stats are higher than Yue's except for the 2 magic one's yet Yue's level is higher and she has been fighting for much much longer. Yue's magic stats being greater could be attributed to the many years her auto regen spent keeping her alive, and her magic use before she was sealed and after with Hajime clearing more than a 100 levels and many thousands more monsters than Kaori has. Since each use would increase one's magic stat as it was mentioned when they first entered Orcus.

4. In 4 months of only completing 90 levels as support she has gained level 72. Compared to Yue and Tio who have earned tons more experience and are only currently within 20 levels of her, Kaori and gang's growth rate is exceedingly much greater. God(Author) only knows whats going on with Shia's stats, but her magic stats are probably also greater due to the greater combat experience she's earned.



I understand you don't find any of her abilities particularly special, unique or original since she is a healing support class character and not an attacker like his group. But they are obviously useful and outstanding and would greatly help even Hajime's group in sticky situations, as seen from what she's accomplished in recent chapters. Hajime might even make her a cool unique magic weapon.

1. This would fall under the unexpected bit I mentioned. She could conceivably break her limit somehow, but as things stand that doesn't seem likely.

2. It doesn't keep increasing infinitely. Their bodies have a maximum limit, which is factored into the level system. Kouki's limit break is useful, but he pays a price for going over the limit, just as Hajime does with his light speed or his own limit break. Its not like Shia's boost where its just a part of her power.

3. Frankly, the only stats that matter for Yue and Kaori are the magic ones. Plus Yue can boost her physical stats with her magic manipulation, so she has Kaori beat even there. Not that it matters, since neither of them are skilled close-up. The difference is Yue could get hammered and still be fine, while Kaori gets no such luck.

4. Of course Kaori has leveled much faster. Her cap is much lower, and she has spent pretty much all her time training and dungeon crawling. Hajime's group has been traveling for the most part. Their training time is limited.

She doesn't need an attacking skill to get that extra oomph. She is a healer and that's fine, but she is missing something truly unique. Something like a full time barrier or a purification power. She is definitely the most skilled of the heroes imo, which makes her pretty damn powerful in this verse. She would even be helpful in the places Hajime goes, but is it really okay for her to be a step below the rest of the party?

She is pretty much the one who keeps the class from dying off anyway. I don't think they could afford to lose her. So if Hajime's group gets a healer, I think it will be someone else. An elf maybe. Yes I know thats a total stereotype.

Originally Posted by bones

Actually, i think Yue is going to die and kick off the second war of the gods

That's too scary to contemplate. I think Hajime would snap totally if that happened. Yue is the major reason that Hajime still has some empathy.

[kazzuya13]

The only way for Kaori to catch up with Hajime's group stat wise is to gain a certain unique item that will boost her stats. Or for her to fuse with other beings that is not the same way as Hajime did but with the same result. For example absorbing the magic power or the soul of other creatures instead of flesh like Hajime.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by bones

Actually, i think Yue is going to die and kick off the second war of the gods

NOOOOO, don't kill off the loli vampire!

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Xacual

On the case of Yue though, I highly doubt her magic stat changed considerably during their clear of Orcus. The entire point was that her magic was monstrous, which is why they sealed her.

I see little reason for you to doubt the stat increase mechanics stated by the author. Are you suspecting the author made a mistake? She obviously wasn't born with magic knowledge and with her stats that high. She stated she worked hard, so would have trained and fought to use her abilities for her clan and quickly became powerful. Then they sealed her. And its her special skills that was stated that made her special. She would have trained alot and defeated many enemies before she was sealed because she was no longer needed and become so powerful and fearsome.

Originally Posted by Xacual

Also her and Kaori are within 5 levels of each other, that's hardly a big difference.

You must have misread my post. I was pointing out growth rate and stat comparisons, not just the level difference.

Originally Posted by bludvein

1. This would fall under the unexpected bit I mentioned. She could conceivably break her limit somehow, but as things stand that doesn't seem likely.

But I was never originally talking about as things stand. My original comment was that she could catch up if she went on an entire dungeon run with Hajime.

Originally Posted by bludvein

2. It doesn't keep increasing infinitely. Their bodies have a maximum limit, which is factored into the level system.

You might be right. You might be wrong. My point was that this is your personal assumption about her maximum.

Spoiler for Stats:

Unlike games, leveling up does not mean getting extra stats in our case.
"Your stats can be raised by training, magic, or magical tools. Also, someone with a high magic stat allows other stats to increase faster. Although we don't know the whole detail, it is believe that magical power somehow assists the physical body to improve.

Since people like Kouki and Hajime can already exceed any perceived maximum, from this evidence my assumption is that the level limit might not limit stat growth through use and the other methods mentioned.

Originally Posted by bludvein

3. Frankly, the only stats that matter for Yue and Kaori are the magic ones. Plus Yue can boost her physical stats with her magic manipulation, so she has Kaori beat even there. Not that it matters, since neither of them are skilled close-up. The difference is Yue could get hammered and still be fine, while Kaori gets no such luck.

This was never about who can beat who. Yue has more experience and some cool skills, so she is stronger. This was never in dispute. This was about Kaori's possible growth and me correcting a statement you made when I mentioned stats. Yue's standing stats are lower than Kaori's expect for the magic one's. The novel makes it clear how stats increase. Yue and Tio have years more combat experience and have defeated tons more demons with Hajime, thus their combat stats are greater. However Kaori's growth rate is faster. Thats all.

Originally Posted by bludvein

4. Of course Kaori has leveled much faster. Her cap is much lower, and she has spent pretty much all her time training and dungeon crawling. Hajime's group has been traveling for the most part. Their training time is limited.

Your assuming her level cap affects her stat growth, I'm going by the novel statements that combat and training affect stats more. Not sure how you forgot with me repeating myself so often, but Hajime's group have cleared more than twice the number of monster levels and defeated a demon invasion. They have obviously defeated more enemies than Kaori's group. Your mention of travelling and lack of training time is irrelevant since actual combat increases magic stats faster as noted in chapter 4.

I believe Kaori's stats would also increase to monster levels if she had similar experience. She already has a monster level skill set. Yue and Tio have had years more training and experience. Kaori has had only 4 months. Back to my original statement. Her possible growth if she went on an entire dungeon run with Hajime should allow her to catch up.

[bludvein]

I'm not assuming anything. The story flat out says that the level is based on the amount of growth a person has. Traveling with Hajime wouldn't change her magic limit, although she would get more practical skills and maybe some god magic.

No doubt she would be useful to Hajime's party, but besides the stat thing (which we will just have to agree to disagree on) she is necessary to the class' efforts. I just don't think she will jump ship even if she is willing.

[teejmo]

Yeah, the only way I could have seen Kaori conceivably join Hajime's group is if she was kidnapped and Hajime saved her, but it looks like the author's focused on giving the heroes a fighting chance at surviving this world, and her powers are basically the only reason they're alive.

Man, I wish she was kidnapped. I know the "save the princess" story arc is a little cliche, but it would have been absolutely hilarious to see her reaction once she realized that her saviors included a vampire loli, a well-endowed bunny girl, and a bigger rack of a dragon girl/masochist, where two have obvious feelings for Hajime, and the third will in the near future.

[Kioras]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Spoiler for Stats:

Unlike games, leveling up does not mean getting extra stats in our case.
"Your stats can be raised by training, magic, or magical tools. Also, someone with a high magic stat allows other stats to increase faster. Although we don't know the whole detail, it is believe that magical power somehow assists the physical body to improve.

That quote is from chapter 2, in dreggs translation.

There is a problem, that we have no idea what Yue's actual base magic stats are. Both her and Hajime are wearing high artifact level items. These should be considered broken level items. Yue has her wedding jewelry that is a magic booster, and Hajime has his arm and eye. We have no information on how much they might affect the base stats. The author has not seen fit to go ahead and provide us a more in depth explanation on the stat system yet. We don't really have a good explanation on why Hajime's states increased by 4 or 5 fold between before and after the hydra fight.

Perhaps in Kaori's case, due to her motivation and covering up for mistakes the rest of the team makes, as she is the healer, her magic stats have had the fastest growth rate due to the high usage she has.

Yue could have the same issue, in that her auto regen always running it pushes the magic stat much higher then it would be normally by several degree's.

[Xacual]

Yue's jewelry don't boost her magic stats though, they're like a mp recovery item from a game. She pours her power into them when she can and then she can use them to restore some of her power when she needs it.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by bludvein

I'm not assuming anything. The story flat out says that the level is based on the amount of growth a person has. Traveling with Hajime wouldn't change her magic limit, although she would get more practical skills and maybe some god magic.

Yes I know the novel mentions about the level limit, but I just pointed out to you again and again the novel also mentions stats can also be increased in other ways unrelated to level increase and I also just pointed out 2 people who can already exceed any perceived level related stat limits. Ofcourse, its an assumption your making. Its already been proven wrong in 2 cases from the novel. You're assuming the same exception could never apply to the summoned hero's and are ignoring the other things from the novel that prove that such level caps for max stat limit don't seem to always apply. I'm not saying you are wrong in Kaori's case, I'm also making an assumption based on the facts I mentioned and that we don't know what the future might hold for her.

Originally Posted by bludvein

No doubt she would be useful to Hajime's party, but besides the stat thing (which we will just have to agree to disagree on) she is necessary to the class' efforts. I just don't think she will jump ship even if she is willing.

I've always understood your point, but I was only talking about possible growth and I never mentioned about her jumping ship to go with Hajime. It was asked would she be of any use if she happened to join Hajime, with her stats being so much lower. I only mentioned her abilities and numerous skills are also important(she doesn't need higher stats), that her stats are higher except for magic, and that the magic stat was stated could be improved quickly(unrelated to her level raising) by lots more magic action. The thing about stats increasing separate to the level is from the novel.

[blade82]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

The only way for Kaori to catch up with Hajime's group stat wise is to gain a certain unique item that will boost her stats. Or for her to fuse with other beings that is not the same way as Hajime did but with the same result. For example absorbing the magic power or the soul of other creatures instead of flesh like Hajime.

what if she gain the ability to regenerate bodies part like Yue? or some artefacts with spirits like Orihime from Bleach who can attack, defend and completly heal

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by blade82

what if she gain the ability to regenerate bodies part like Yue? or some artefacts with spirits like Orihime from Bleach who can attack, defend and completly heal

i dont think that will be good if she have the same ability as yue. is better if her class evolve to something like goddess class or she learn how to use barrier,because someone said that there is healer class and barrier class if she become healer/barrier class is special enough for her to join because she will be able to protect herself with barriers and heal the others since they dont have the special water anymore.
but for me i think is good if her dont join if there is only "ONE" powerfull party in the world will be impossible for they to win the war . wars is won mainly by numbers not one person.

About level stats i think kouki and his class will past the limit like Hajime,because the entire limit impost by the kingdom ( lvl 100,stats 1500) is for the people of them world. these laws may not apply for people from others worlds and this already happened to Hajime.

sorry about the english,still learning.

[bludvein]

It's not a law, just a natural limit. The heroes are already beyond the norm for humans in that world. Even with a class, humans only reach about 400 in their best stat, with some non-humans reaching about 600.

1500 in all stats is already cheat-like, even if its not as ridiculous as Hajime's party. Stats aren't his problem.

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by bludvein

It's not a law, just a natural limit. The heroes are already beyond the norm for humans in that world. Even with a class, humans only reach about 400 in their best stat, with some non-humans reaching about 600.

1500 in all stats is already cheat-like, even if its not as ridiculous as Hajime's party. Stats aren't his problem.

yes,but the one that told us about the limit was Meld, she can be wrong we already have proof of that. (hajime's group broke the limit everyone have one or two stats 1500+)

all information that we have come from Meld or the pope (can not remember his name), and most of this information is wrong. Meld said the limit is 1500stats LVL100 for the hero class, but Hajime is not a hero class, and he overcame these statistics.
how they even know that the limit is lvl 100 1500 stats if for what you said the best was 400-600.

I do not believe that everyone will break the limit but I believe it is possible for everyone so that for this to happen they will have to go through an extremely traumatic experience.

[teejmo]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

yes,but the the one that told us about the limit was Meld, she can be wrong we already have proof of that. (hajime broke the limit)

Um, the only reason why Hajime was able to "break the limit" was because of the god-stone thing, which he called potion. Due to drinking it while eating demon-meat, it was able to heal the cells that were being eaten away, allowing his muscles to build up faster, while also granting him abilities of his victims.

You could actually make a strong argument that Hajime is no longer human. All his abilities other than his synergy come from demons.

Considering demon meat is considered a super deadly poison, and the "potion" is a one-in-a-million chance to find, I doubt anyone else will be willing or able to use this to "break the limit".

[bludvein]

Mental traumas can unlock skills, as we have seen with Hajime's [Light Speed], but it does not alter base stats from what we have seen. Hajime's method is unlikely to be available to any of the class, so they would need some sort of additional blessing or body modification to increase their stats beyond their predicted cap. That's fine though, as their stats and skills are plenty high enough to fight the devils if they play it smart instead of wearing shiny armor and charging from the front. What they lack is experience and tactics.

I hope we only have 1-2 more chapters with the class. As much as I want to see their reaction to the news of Hajime's survival(and Daisuke's raging), I want to see the next dungeon more.

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by teejmo

Um, the only reason why Hajime was able to "break the limit" was because of the god-stone thing, which he called potion. Due to drinking it while eating demon-meat, it was able to heal the cells that were being eaten away, allowing his muscles to build up faster, while also granting him abilities of his victims.

You could actually make a strong argument that Hajime is no longer human. All his abilities other than his synergy come from demons.

Considering demon meat is considered a super deadly poison, and the "potion" is a one-in-a-million chance to find, I doubt anyone else will be willing or able to use this to "break the limit".

yes,but eating demon meat may not be the only way to remove the limit and i believe the trauma of be eaten and her thinking of doing anything to survive was the "real" limit removal.
about the godstone, may not be the only way to eat demon meat, the stone was healing his body at the same time the demon meat was destroying it ,if you gather many healer class you may be able to heal the body just like the stone .

Mental traumas may not be the only way to unlock skills,stats. what i want to say is the only information we know (Meld ) is wrong ,we dont know the real limit here so everyone have the potential to break the "limit" but i believe not everyone will have sucess.



for me since Hajime's survival i want to see the class reaction to him mainly about the stats and her new way of live "kill to eat"
kaori is really close to have mental trauma.
everything she does since Hajime "death" is focused to find him when she finds out he is alive and surrounded by lolis she will go crazy.

[teejmo]

Originally Posted by bludvein

I hope we only have 1-2 more chapters with the class. As much as I want to see their reaction to the news of Hajime's survival(and Daisuke's raging), I want to see the next dungeon more.

Speaking of which, I've been meaning to ask: compared to the Orcus dungeon, was the second one tougher? I know that the forest dungeon requires four completed dungeons, which may imply that it is tougher than the others...

I really need my own computer back. With that, I could possibly translate these better.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

yes,but the one that told us about the limit was Meld, she can be wrong we already have proof of that. (hajime's group broke the limit everyone have one or two stats 1500+)

all information that we have come from Meld or the pope (can not remember his name), and most of this information is wrong. Meld said the limit is 1500stats LVL100 for the hero class, but Hajime is not a hero class, and he overcame these statistics.
how they even know that the limit is lvl 100 1500 stats if for what you said the best was 400-600.

I do not believe that everyone will break the limit but I believe it is possible for everyone so that for this to happen they will have to go through an extremely traumatic experience.

You may be right, but I believe the traumatic experience thing is not directly related to stats increasing, but related to a statement on how some special skills can be improved dramatically if one breaks though their limit. Its possible the additional skills one receives after this may help improve stats, however.

And the truth is that since its stated stats can be increased separate to one's level by tools, magic and practice. Any guess of the max based on only levels assumes the individual did not try other methods and did not get any boosts from skills or magic. So while the levels are stated to give an idea of possible potential, a person's max stat limit determined this way is only a general projection on what they may achieve, and it can not be truly identified until we see the outcome of all their actions and experiences.

Originally Posted by teejmo

Speaking of which, I've been meaning to ask: compared to the Orcus dungeon, was the second one tougher? I know that the forest dungeon requires four completed dungeons, which may imply that it is tougher than the others....

I think clearing the monsters was alot easier since he had more help and was alot stronger, but getting to the end was much more tedious and annoying due to traps, and resetting maze. The final boss I believe was just as difficult, maybe even more difficult than Orcus's boss.