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View Poll Results: Your impression of the movie - A Wakening of the Trailblazer | |||
091 - 100: Amazing | 78 | 24.15% | |
081 - 090: Great | 66 | 20.43% | |
071 - 080: Very Good | 46 | 14.24% | |
061 - 070: Good | 50 | 15.48% | |
051 - 060: Average | 24 | 7.43% | |
041 - 050: Below Average | 17 | 5.26% | |
031 - 040: Bad | 6 | 1.86% | |
021 - 030: Very Bad | 4 | 1.24% | |
011 - 020: Awful | 10 | 3.10% | |
001 - 010: You would rather watch Britney Spears exposing her crotch. *shudder* | 22 | 6.81% | |
Voters: 323. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-03-10, 05:53 | Link #1003 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Finally watch it. I didn't go thru the entire 50 pages of discussion.
The battle scenes are amazing. I have no idea how anyone can say "not enough battle scenes". All characters have their fair share of screen time. I am glad to see them (even the dead ones) and yet I don't feel they are here "just because it is the movie and everyone needs to gather". Nice job of the directors and script writer. So why do the ELS attack Earth in the first place? I know their home planet is dying and they sent out numerous sphere thing and assimilate other planets. Didn't that.......make them evil (Kinda like ID4 alien evil)? Why do they stop attacking Earth after Setsuna "communicate" with them? What do Setsuna "tell" them that "change their mind"?
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2011-03-10, 11:39 | Link #1005 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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The ELS attacked Earth for that final battle because of Descartes Shaman--they were extremely freaked out by the transmission of Descartes' hostile QBWs and decided to put an end to humanity before humanity put an end to them. Setsuna merely explained the misunderstanding to them, and the ELS in return explained why they were here.
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2011-03-10, 16:44 | Link #1006 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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We know that if you let the metal touch you, you got assimilated and thus, die. Descartes only fire when the metal stuff are chasing him. So he should just sit there and let the metal stuff eat him? Actually Setsuna did just that and almost die in the middle of the movie when he tries to communicate with the alien (If tierie did not sacrifice himself, Setsuna is already dead and Earth would be destroyed)
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2011-03-10, 17:37 | Link #1007 | |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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The ELS targeting the Ptolemaios II was the same deal--hell, they even took on the form of their research probe to do so. They were similarly attracted--after all, they had both an Innovator there, and two humans augmented to have higher quantum brainwave abilities than normal, never mind the rest of the crew, who may be in a similar boat due to their more frequent exposure to Trans-AM and the Trans-AM Burst. And then when the ELS come out in force, humanity went to them, and what was the first thing they did? Descartes flew out and started blowing them up. While broadcasting all his frustration. At that point, the ELS had pretty much figured humanity to be a hostile force they needed to defend themselves from. Let us not forget that prior to that, the ELS weren't headed towards Earth, a detail mentioned in the ESF assembly scene.
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2011-03-10, 18:01 | Link #1008 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not sure that the ELS understood any of the QBW that Descartes was exhibiting during his attack, especially since they weren't able to understand any of Setsuna's and merely attacked his unit in the first two encounters in space. If they had, then Descartes should have been able to hear some sort of message from them as well. That said, his attacks on the ELS most certainly alerted them to some level of hostility at the very least.
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2011-03-10, 18:29 | Link #1009 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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When Setsuna communicate with the alien, we saw the alien turned the entire planet to metal - presumably killing everything on there. If the army and Descartes did not blow up that spaceship, Earth would turn into metal scrap already. Just because "that is the only way they know" didn't justify their action. I would like Setsuna to explain to those who lost their family and friends during the initial alien "communication" which the alien control un-manned vehicle and wreck chaos. Even if the half assimilated ones are saved, the full assimilated ones are dead, right? (the one in the solar energy facility. They are all dead, right?) To me, the alien are like the spanish colonizer back in the 1500s, they just waltz in and do whatever they want. The American Indians are no match for them in terms of military (like the ESF army) so they "communicate" and get a peace treaty. I know some celebrate events like these, but I hardly call them an example of peace and how communication triumph. EDIT: Louise reaction is another reason for my point. Louise has repeated say "don't come near" and yet the alien ignored. That is another reason why I call the alien evil and equate them with the spanish colonizer.
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2011-03-10, 19:22 | Link #1010 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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I mentioned this a while ago myself, since, like you, I cannot fully agree with the intent of the directors in regards to the so-called 'dialogue'.
What is worse, the communication initiated by Setsuna is simply too vague to be convincing. I am quite certain that resistance amongst those with quantum waves have been expressed, but the ELS probably chose not to heed them. I mean, the ELS was a great idea, but the producers did not utilize it enough. - Tak Quote:
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2011-03-11, 00:09 | Link #1011 | ||
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
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When you look at it from a human perspective, the ELS is wrong but from the ELS point of view, they were trying to do a good thing and the reason why they kept at it is thats how they do it with themselves. They came because they were attracted to the humanity emitting quantum brainwaves, and they wanted tp be friendly with us but assimiliating is all they can do, thats quite literally how the species is. They stopped in the end only because Setsuna made them realise the humans point of view (IE we don't want to be to be asismiliated its a bad thing for us unlike it is for your culture), the point of view that came by pretty much due to the humans vastly different biological background than the ELS, who appear to be almost bacterialike-macro collective creatures. Of course, the real tension started when Descartes pretty much blew up the Europa, neither side can be blamed for this since humans were trying to prevent it from crashing because they thought it was a derelict ship. Basically, the ELS were trying to give us a hug, but it was a very tight hug and they didnt realise they were hurting us. Setsuna basically said to them that it was too tight and they basically said sorry my bad, we wont hug you anymore. The take home message is pretty much that people from different cultures and backgrounds even with good intentions can have misunderstandings and its important to bridge that misunderstanding so it doesn't lead to needless loss for either sides when there is pure goodwill on both sides. Quote:
Its essentially trying to promote the quantum field communication system that Aeolia had in mind to help humans communicate with alien species and it is due to the lack of communications that this problem started in the first place. When it comes to the infinite evolutionary paths species around the galaxy can take, it becomes hard to find a single universal values or way of communication to make them reasonably understand each other. The ELS and humans are lucky that the basic goodwill is there and bridging the cultural and communication barriers is all that is needed, there are other civilization out there that may have much more less good intentions and making peace with such civilizations are going to be much much harder. If the ELS truly wanted to do whatever they want, they would have continued assimilating humans even after the dialogues, there's certainly nothing stopping them physically but reaching out is what they've always wanted and Setsuna basically showed them that the humans don't roll the assimilation way since they come from a vastly different biological culture and evolutionary background. Setsuna believed from the start that they had the goodwill in them and that they just misunderstood human culture, which is why he used Trans-Am Burst in 00 Raiser even if it was close to suicidal.
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Last edited by SonicSP; 2011-03-11 at 00:44. |
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2011-03-11, 00:28 | Link #1012 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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And concerning Louise telling the Sky-ELS to "stay away," let's keep in mind that she was using a spoken language and the ELS, as a species, have absolutely no concept of verbal communication, since theirs is entirely through QBWs. Can't fault 'em for that one.
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2011-03-11, 00:31 | Link #1013 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It also didn't help that fully assimilating a target did not "assimilate" their consciousness; instead, they died. Thus, the ELS get no understanding as to whether or not assimilating a human causes "death" from their POV. It's also quite possible they believed humans were also a collective consciousness, so "killing" any human should not matter as their consciousness returns to some "main body".
This can be said for the ELS, but not for humans.
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2011-03-11, 00:39 | Link #1015 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You know, this reminds me of one episode in Enterprise I vaguely recall... one species was offended that humans ate in public, because according to their culture, eating was the equivalent of sleeping with another person.
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2011-03-11, 00:43 | Link #1016 |
Dark Energy
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: United States
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That sounds about right. Look at how much variety exists between human cultures, and that's just one species. The differences between two different species that evolved in two different solar systems would be so severe that, without something like GN Particles and QBW that breaks down all forms of communication into the most basic and shared level of all, they would be completely irreconcilable.
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2011-03-11, 11:30 | Link #1017 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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After all, did the ELS not escape their dying world in fear of their entire specie's extinction? And with no living beings left, there would be no collective conscious. - Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2011-03-11 at 11:40. |
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2011-03-11, 11:38 | Link #1018 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Based on that logic, the ELS have no trouble committing wholesale genocide with other species, but have a problem when Setsuna makes first contact with them and thus they stop.
It seems like there's a missing part of the puzzle here; a part of the ELS culture we don't fully understand and as such one would jump to insane conclusions. Probably the same kind of conclusions that the Old Human faction would jump to, and why they went to war soon after 2314. Here's another theory: the ELS did not see us as a sentient species at first. Even though some of us emit QBW, the thought never crossed their mind. In fact, there's even the possibility they believed they were the only sentient species this whole time. Us attacking them with mobile suits and ships was what they observed to be a "natural reaction" from a potentially "aggressive" species. It never occurred to them that we were defending our home planet against what we thought was an alien invasion, while they continued to assimilate thinking there were no consequences in doing so.
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2011-03-11, 11:47 | Link #1019 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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They were an interesting idea, but one I did not think was utilized to its full potential, and at the end, the plot involving them had a cheap way out. I really want to konw the details of the communication between Setsuna and the ELS... what did he say, exactly? Why did he later accepted ELS form? did he sing and do a kira dance?.............. oh wait... The details man... the details... - Tak
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2011-03-11, 11:49 | Link #1020 | |
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
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And if indeed the ELS did not understand the actual pain and death through non collective species when they got assimiliated before, they've learned it now after the Quantum System and they stopped not long after Setsuna used it, otherwise they're still free to do whatever they wish to the humans with not much resistance stopping them from doing so.
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