To Aru Majutsu no Index - Light Novel - New Testament Volume 9

[Lulu Vie Britania]

Originally Posted by Theroryu

Yes yes, he kept all of his memories. What Kamachi said in the afterword should hold that statement.

Didn't he say himself that he'd managed to forget the terrible parts of his suffering so he could always stand up and beat Othinus after being killed again and again?

[LazyHunter]

He didn't forget the worlds he went through. But when he started fighting Othinus he was obviously curbstomped several times on the first move. He subconsciously rejected the pain and arranged the memories to look like a single fight. After that I think he's pretty much conscious of all his deaths since he keeps talking to Othinus despite being killed mid-speech.

[Theroryu]

Originally Posted by Lulu Vie Britania

Didn't he say himself that he'd managed to forget the terrible parts of his suffering so he could always stand up and beat Othinus after being killed again and again?

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

He didn't forget the worlds he went through. But when he started fighting Othinus he was obviously curbstomped several times on the first move. He subconsciously rejected the pain and arranged the memories to look like a single fight. After that I think he's pretty much conscious of all his deaths since he keeps talking to Othinus despite being killed mid-speech.

We've been through this a couple of times already. Check the previous posts.

[leukrota]

Ok, I finally had the chance to read the volume, and though that means I missed the core of the discussion, I was also able at long last to read a full volume spoiler free

Anyway, I loved it. Even though I could "see the ending" halfway through, it was still very well done.

I love the idea of Touma vs. the world, especially since this path is not just believable but expected (for us readers) and not only due to his personality of always saving the "damsel in distress" (btw, just how broken is that concept in the toaru verse?)

I also think this volume was somehow romantic, which is a suprise considering I've never expected much romance from Kamachi. But something about getting to know each other behind flying sections of bloody guts just does it in a weird way... Ok, joke aside, they had quite a bit of quality time. It almost makes me want to root for this pair, even though we all know it will end up being just an "affair"

________

BTW, on the comic relief parts, Mikoto going "full shoplifting" was genius

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Ok, I finally had the chance to read the volume, and though that means I missed the core of the discussion, I was also able at long last to read a full volume spoiler free

Anyway, I loved it. Even though I could "see the ending" halfway through, it was still very well done.

I love the idea of Touma vs. the world, especially since this path is not just believable but expected (for us readers) and not only due to his personality of always saving the "damsel in distress" (btw, just how broken is that concept in the toaru verse?)

I also think this volume was somehow romantic, which is a suprise considering I've never expected much romance from Kamachi. But something about getting to know each other behind flying sections of bloody guts just does it in a weird way... Ok, joke aside, they had quite a bit of quality time. It almost makes me want to root for this pair, even though we all know it will end up being just an "affair"

________

BTW, on the comic relief parts, Mikoto going "full shoplifting" was genius

How's this an affair?? who's the main girl ?? Index is Touma's pet while Mikoto is his comedy partner.

[bakapervert]

Well, if you see the ending again it does really look like an affair. Touma abandon all his harem, his friend, his home, to elope with Othinus. XD

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

How's this an affair?? who's the main girl ?? Index is Touma's pet while Mikoto is his comedy partner.

No one, but what I meant was something transient, a "fling" maybe?

And it's not like it will be an actual romantic relationship, hence the quotation marks.

(why do people take this stuff so seriously?)

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Well, if you see the ending again it does really look like an affair. Touma abandon all his harem, his friend, his home, to elope with Othinus. XD

You get it.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Well, if you see the ending again it does really look like an affair. Touma abandon all his harem, his friend, his home, to elope with Othinus. XD

don't call it an elope, he proudly stand up to punch rather than running away XD.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

don't call it an elope, he proudly stand up to punch rather than running away XD.

One of Touma's key points is that he has always been smart enough to know when it's a good time to start running...

[Theroryu]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

One of Touma's key points is that he has always been smart enough to know when it's a good time to start running...

And his major point is attracting trouble.
Attract trouble/misfortune>runs>Attract more>runs some more
He can run all he wants but the trouble/misfortune ain't gonna disappear :P
It'll just stack up and hit him in one go in the end.
Oh and by trouble/misfortune, I meant his harem protagonist ability.

[dniv]

I'm actually wondering if rather than Touma just changing completely being the cause, the reason Touma didn't punch Othinus was simply because he wasn't in the right this time so he couldn't really break her illusions. She wasn't really deranged or wrong. She was in her right-mind, but she was just a God so she had reasons to feel the way she did.

I'm sure he'll still punch people after this. But I'm wondering if him touching her face counts as the punch this time.

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by dniv

I'm actually wondering if rather than Touma just changing completely being the cause, the reason Touma didn't punch Othinus was simply because he wasn't in the right this time so he couldn't really break her illusions.

I'm pretty sure the reason Touma didn't punch Othinus was cause he couldn't no matter how hard he tried.

Cheek aside, he was in the right I think. But had he hit her, he wouldn't be able to save her.

Then again, you could say that he metaphorically punched her heart, instead of her face. And I would say that the delusion breaking did actually occur.

[LG-MAX]

Originally Posted by dniv

I'm actually wondering if rather than Touma just changing completely being the cause, the reason Touma didn't punch Othinus was simply because he wasn't in the right this time so he couldn't really break her illusions. She wasn't really deranged or wrong. She was in her right-mind, but she was just a God so she had reasons to feel the way she did.

I'm sure he'll still punch people after this. But I'm wondering if him touching her face counts as the punch this time.

Touma broke her heart in the end leaving alone in this world, do not forget what she said:

“That was…a truly cruel attack.”

ps: I'm one who gets annoyed when I read in the threads any reference to "Touma tried to save Othinus"?. I believe they have developed a mutual understanding, something much deeper. after all, who needed to be saved was Touma.

[dniv]

So after re-reading NT 9 I realized that it was a lot more amazing the second time (somehow) and that there were a lot of things I missed the first time. It also made me cry when reading the last part the second time, which didn't happen the first time (I cried at a different part).

This was by far the best volume I've seen Kamachi do. More importantly, I want to say that I now realized a whole lot of things that NT 9 sheds light on in NT 8, NT 7, NT 6, ...., LN 22, and LN 13/14/15... so I'm going to be re-reading these, and a lot of the series. Also, LN 1 of course makes a little more sense... it was interesting to hear Kamijou talk about negating God's gears... And I'm wondering if everything is indeed the work of God and that the phases are just gears...

Either way, the story is getting so much better in every way that I don't understand who thinks Kamijou's development is flat here or that the books are getting worse. This was so much better than anything else in this series that I can't even compare this book to WWIII climax. This book was way better in almost every aspect. The point is that it wasn't just cool. It was actually saying something important and meaningful and it was also very well written. It not only developed Touma's character very well, but it also completely inverted the situation in the series, and it shook up the relationships between characters in the series. It introduced other rising plot threads in NT and brought them together (Misaka Will and Othinus). NT science which was focused on AIM thought beings had a parallel to how stuffy actually happened because Fraulein wanted to get the Misaka network i.e. will-san. NT 7 with AIM thought beings was just giving an understanding of what exactly Misaka Will is. As she is an AIM thought being, just like Hisako she is able to possess other people's bodies briefly, and this happens with the Sisters more easily I guess. Misaka Will is clearly an AIM thought being that is beyond death and life. On the other hand, Othinus is a human girl who rose to the title of a God and who wasn't understood by anyone else. Gremlin had a lot of development throughout NT and now we see Othinus herself especially has an amazingly compelling character. This book to the rest of this series is like Kamachi to your average author, the difference is too great to thoroughly analyze. This is a real turning point in the series also by bringing up the concept of phases that has been in the background of the series the whole time and making it clear to us. It also further speculated on Imagine Breaker and what happens when Touma dies. It shed some light about what Aleister might be after, but moreover it also blatantly hinted that Touma's Imagine Breaker wasn't originally created to return the world to normal, but that it could be used like that.

This book was just insane plot wise and had so many revelations I couldn't even believe it. I spoiled myself before I read it, but this was just so fantastic that I am absolutely loving this anyway. I'm happy I had an extra month to digest the spoilers before I read this so I could look past a lot of the details and think about just how many things are actually happening here all at once: profound moral decisions; main character growth; villain character growth and personality reveal; Will-san character to Touma reveal; Phases concept reveal; Imagine Breaker functionality revealed in more ways than one; Plot armor in-universe accepted (); insane battle of epic proportions for individuals; new capable romantic interests; reveal on Aleister's motivations; the concept of the stage of different Gods in Index (they never said there was only one God, they always used Gods in plural); and more amazing points buried under the text.

I honestly can't compare this writing to anything else in the series, and am just astounded how good this has gotten. I can't wait for this to keep up next volume. Also, to be honest, I don't care if Next volume isn't better than this volume, it's already good enough to satisfy whatever insanity I could wish for; I'm not that greedy.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Originally Posted by NT 9

He passed by a woman in pajamas and a wheelchair and a girl with smartphones and other handheld devices hanging down from her neck.

Who was the second Kihara? I know the first one... but the second one... Has she made an appearance yet?

Originally Posted by NT 9

No matter how many problems there were with their methodology, he could see the results before his eyes. That “someone” who Kamijou feared would most likely not appear here. Othinus would not allow for the “imperfect fluctuations” of misfortune or tragedy that were needed for that “someone” to naturally appear.

Who is that "someone?" I'm slightly confused/not sure about who it's referring to.



Regardless, this next quote is the quote I think is most important in NT 9:

Originally Posted by NT 9

“According to Ollerus, Imagine Breaker is an accumulation of the hopes of all magicians. He said it’s a reference point to return the world to normal after it is twisted by their desires. I don’t know if that’s its true origin, but it can be used like that. You could say this is the other card you could play. It represents the original world. Instead of adding on another layer of paint, you can use this like a palette knife to slowly peel away the previous layers.”

... This was also italicized in the text. So now I'm sure that the origin of Imagine Breaker is not as a reference point. It's probably something else that has to do with the IT, or something even more complicated. Once again, Kamachi makes it even harder to grasp what's happening. There's something even more fundamental about Imagine Breaker... It's been gnawing at me the entire time; so this has really been well done.

Originally Posted by NT 9

“No, I can’t. And these repeated battles haven’t increased my physical strength. Nor have I unlocked a hidden power in Imagine Breaker or anything like that. I’m still me. I haven’t become anything else.”
“Then…!!”

For some reason, I take this as major foreshadowing that this will happen at some point. The thing Terra mentioned as well.

Originally Posted by NT 9

He no longer felt any pain. His organs had been destroyed and even his heart had been taken. It was strange that he was even conscious. He had heard cruel rumors of criminals’ heads blinking after being decapitated by a guillotine or people complaining to witnesses after being torn to pieces when hit by a train. However, he had never imagined he would one day test it out himself.
This was simply a mistake until the blood left his head.
It was a slight illusion until death caught up to him.
“Either way, I may never have had any chance of winning.”
“It is a bit late to realize that.”
“Without your help, the victory I had decided on would always have been out of reach.”
“…”
Yes.

This quote is even more important to me than the other one I said was the most important quote. This is exactly what happened during Volume 2 with IB. The same speculation about whether the Dragon was just an illusion of Ars Magna. What's clear to me here, which I didn't notice the first time I read this, is that Touma lost his body, but he kept: His Shoulders. His Arms. His head. . This happened after he felt the IT's power spilling out from when his hand was broken. Maybe IT is keeping Touma alive somehow in this situation where he doesn't have his heart? (Shoulder and Arms are containers; and Head is the personality necessary to be the container of it...) All I can think is that whatever is happening here is foreshadowing something that will happen later in another battle, where Touma will somehow mysteriously survive a fight he shouldn't survive. I'm thinking this, because the focus of what's happening is on his death and the end of the battle, the world being transformed, to purposely make us not notice that what happened might be saying something, just like the dragon with Ars Magna wasn't an illusion. And Touma lost his heart this time, but he was still kind. So maybe this time his memories were in... IB... (as opposed to his head). (and he died after he was going to give IB to her... so maybe that's when it stopped helping him or something...)

Originally Posted by NT 9

The boy she held in her slender arm did not speak any longer. He may have had some blood left in his head, but he did not have enough strength left to think. He had lost most of his organs, including his heart, so it was right to classify him as dead. A few cells might have still been functioning, but the boy had been lost. That was the truth.
Before long, Imagine Breaker’s power would transfer into something else.
It could be a person or an object. If she removed all matter from the world, that power might pour into Othinus herself. It was no different from playing old maid against an opponent who only had one card. Even if you knew that card was the joker, you had to take it.

For some reason, this reminds me of how the Narrator sounds when he's blatantly lying for some reason, like when he talks about Kamijou's "deaths" and I guess we can call this his third "death" because this unlike the other ones actually called him dead when it happened (and made a big scene of it...)

[Acer]

Touma urgently needs to punch someone, he no longer does this in two volumes. Index is not Index if there is no punching or girls being beaten.

[LG-MAX]

No matter how many problems there were with their methodology, he could see the results before his eyes. That “someone” who Kamijou feared would most likely not appear here. Othinus would not allow for the “imperfect fluctuations” of misfortune or tragedy that were needed for that “someone” to naturally appear.

When I read it the first time, I thought it could be anyone there, that Touma wanted someone to save him, at least that was my first impression.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by dniv

Who was the second Kihara? I know the first one... but the second one... Has she made an appearance yet?

Seems like little Enshuu to me. I miss her.

[dragon1412]

that's Enshuu without a dbout " smartphones and other handheld devices hanging down from her neck." and another Kihara with her confirmed it.

[ssj44]

I finished NT9, and before rereading it I have a question.

Spoiler for Ending:

It's about Touma's deaths and loops which he used to beat Othinus (something only usable against her). I remember someone saying that Touma had to redo all the loops until the point where he previously died, and that he could only add some minor changes to overcome the issues.

- Lets take one of Touma's deaths during the battle against Othinus, 8th chapter : is he resurrected in chapter 5 or in chapter 8 ? In other words, is he forced to go one more time through the loops, or is he revived at the beginning of the chapter 8 (like some sort of checkpoint) ?

- In the case where he revives the loops, is it logical to think that against the policemen, or Aogami, or with the missiles, etc. he actually died during the first occurrence of each cases, but survived thanks to the memory he kept and by slightly changing his moving pattern ?

- Again, assuming he's revived in the first world with each death : how is a loop's end decided ? For instance, Touma died by the hand of Komoe-sensei (chapter 6 alpha) but he went to another world (chapter 6 beta) and didn't went through another series of loops.
I'm not sure but if I should guess I would say that Touma "go to another world" if he "finish" a world (more or less by talking with the magic god and annoy her).

I don't remember the answers being in the volume, or at least not clearly stated, so I hope you'll be able to answer me.
(and sorry for the poor English)

[LG-MAX]

basically whenever he died, he had to start all over again from the black world, it is not said that all worlds were equal, but knowing Othinus. we know how she is creative, and after crossing the worlds he defied Othinus. by giving to understand, he keep the memories of the first cycle of worlds and the rest were fragments, so much that he could not analyze the attacks Othinus or come to understand her if memories of him were deleted.