2012-10-17, 23:09 | Link #61 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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what you guys said about the Gods intervention in the iliad is of course true, but then why don't you translate that over to naruto and insert madara? the comparison still stands. madara is the puppetmaster 'god' putting obito in these positions or turmoil and mind altering scenarios much like the gods did to the humans in the iliad
also, obito does want rin back in a dream world as he stated, but that's an oversimplification as well. he wants to end a world that is capable of creating this type of suffering. it's similar to nagato's ideal that he came to believe from the pain he experienced over his parents, dog and yahiko. its not simply that obito's crush died so he will now massacre everyone. he is just doing what he deems necessary to change the world into a place where pain is nonexistent. and yes, i agree that it's crazy and over the top, i am just saying there is more to it than just blind vengeance over a childhood crush |
2012-10-17, 23:28 | Link #63 |
start thinkin bout clones
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what would happen to the bodies of everyone? if they place everyone in the matrix, wont the ninja brain only last as long as the body is alive?
was that what all the androids where for? to collect the bodies after the moon eye plan was done to make sure no one died of starvation?
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2012-10-17, 23:50 | Link #64 | |
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I sincerely hope he arrives in time to kill Obito (but only after Obito learns the truth of Rin and potentially Madara's involvement). |
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2012-10-17, 23:54 | Link #65 | |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: where magic is reality
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Not unless you can convince him of second love |
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2012-10-18, 00:05 | Link #67 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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Secondly of course it's not about revenge and killing everyone, that's Sasuke's niche. Obito isn't revenge, he is absolute denial. Reality sucks so he will dream it off and murder anyone who stand in his way, it's not like their deaths and suffering matter because he will write it all off in his dream. If you think that's insane contrary to Essenar who appear to think it's a normal reaction then we're not really in disagreement but while I have no problem with the idea of Tobi wanting to deny reality into oblivion (I think it actually fits quite well with the story) I find however the execution of the Obito/Rin part to be severely lacking if not completely dumb. I don't think that's the case, he doesn't want anyone to suffer particularly, he simply doesn't care because he believes everything he doesn't like will unhappen once he's successful. Last edited by Hunter; 2012-10-18 at 00:17. |
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2012-10-18, 01:01 | Link #68 | |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
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as for madara playing the "god" in this drama, we don't know that for sure. if madara had chosen obito and planned his demise then maybe. but so far kishi has only confirmed a few things, obito just "fell on madara's lap" and made use of him. obito went psycho because rin died. besides, madara is hardly petty. he is proud, ambitious and a bit of a lunatic. the gods in the iliad were petty, vindictive and vain. the three goddesses just wanted to know which one of them is the most beautiful, so they asked an unsuspecting paris and offered him riches, power, wisdom and the love of the most beautiful woman in the world - helen. paris chose the latter because of his vanity and pride as a man. helen was no more than a trophy that paris and menelaus fought over, none of them ever loved helen. agamemnon joined the fray because he was a power-tripping, war-hungry warlord who had always set his sights on troy. menelaus merely gave him a reason to sack the city. the gods also joined the war and all hell broke loose. the gods didn't plan for this war, nobody did. like hunter said, it was fate and the driving force behind all that was vanity not love. there was hardly any love in that story save for what hunter also mentioned earlier, the love between achilles and patroclus. but achilles was already part of that war, he didn't start it either, patroclus' death merely fueled his rage and warring tendencies.
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Last edited by ronin myael; 2012-10-18 at 01:13. |
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2012-10-18, 01:27 | Link #69 | |
The Procrastinator
Join Date: Jan 2009
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If Rin were even the slightly developed character maybe this could work. I think in total she had maybe ten dialogue bubbles throughout the entire series. There’s nothing negative about her (except the possible reason why Kakashi had to kill her, but that’s still just a theory). She’s a shell of a character with the traits guys like in girls. She’s nice, caring, nurturing and doesn’t talk that much. Of course Obito would think he loved her, he hasn’t got to know the real Rin; the Rin that likes to relax on the coach and fart having no fear that she will be judge by her supposed ‘true love’; the Rin that just didn’t give a damn that day and does absolutely nothing—which includes cooking, cleaning and giving a damn for others (this extends to supposed ‘true love’ and leaving them to fend for themselves that day); the Rin that would snap at the drop of the hat because she’s in ‘one of her moods’. No, all Obito knows is Rin the girl he’s left on a pedestal so long that there’s more than a thick layer of dust burden on her shoulders. So even if he got into his dream world, it wouldn’t be the real Rin, just the Rin he thought he had loved. But that is what a crush is, is it not? Or is this more obsession territory?
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2012-10-18, 01:56 | Link #70 | |
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2012-10-18, 02:23 | Link #71 | ||
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Naruto himself fully acknowledged that he could have ended up consumed by hatred as Sasuke did very easily, had certain circumstances been different in their lives, as per his conversation with Sasuke after the Danzou battle. |
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2012-10-18, 02:31 | Link #72 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
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Gaara was possessed, so setting him aside, the other two actually held up pretty well. Nagato witnessed the death of his parents and experienced war at a very young age but still pulled through until the Danzou incident and Naruto went through a lot of stuff before his ultimate fight against Pain. Obito just cracked at the first obstacle, and while it's something plausible, it definitely lacks the impact we've already seen in others.
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2012-10-18, 03:25 | Link #73 | |
Fallen Angel
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Of course now, I'm in my late 20's, I'm a lot more mature and I know how stupid it was but does it change that it happened? Not at all. I get worried when I hear about kids having relationships because I know it's a lot of emotional weight for them to try to deal with: jealousy, intimacy, yearning, depression, confidence. Obito was 13-16 years old and not only did he LOSE the girl he loved, his best friend stabbed her through the chest. This was after he tried to sacrifice his life for that same best friend and had his body permanently mutilated from it. And he also spent that time trapped in a cave with a zombie old man and a clone that want to take over the world. And YOU think it's a poorly executed plot? lol. It's like you expect him to come out of that cave perfectly normal. "OH well, my love died by my best friend's hand? Trapped in a cave with crazy old guy? Half of my body is made out of clone goop? Who cares, time to join Match.com and find a new girlfriend! Hey Kakashi! Did you hit it? PROPS BRO. Wanna go to Chipotle?" |
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2012-10-18, 04:51 | Link #75 | |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
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2012-10-18, 06:31 | Link #78 | |
Unheard
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Yes. I think this is the primary characterization bothering me as well. So far we have the precedent with Kabuto and the likes of him being spies since an early age. I think it's highly likely that the reason Rin's characterization has been minimal and her behavior running parallel to stereotypical manners is just that, her being a spy of some sort, pretending to be a friend yet gunning for betrayal. If that was her real side, it puts Obito's real world perceptions in question, because all he ever really loved was an unrealistic cardboard cutout, and thus his designs on the world end up being ludicrous that much more as a direct result. |
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2012-10-18, 07:04 | Link #79 |
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Why are people still expecting Tobito's motivation to be sane/rational?
He's a crazy man, the crazy man does crazy shit for crazy reasons because he's crazy. Can we get over this issue already?
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2012-10-18, 07:07 | Link #80 |
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He's got an elaborate plan (even if he didn't come up with it) and he has a rational reason for doing it, he doesn't want to accept his friend's death. The point is, it's a hell of a weak reason. Sasuke watched his brother massacre his entire clan, Gaara had his father's assassin's on his back and a spiteful demon in his head to face, now THAT is some serious shit that gets you messed up.
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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