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[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Basically the goal is containment without loss of Israeli lives.

Ideally, with no Palestinian loss of life either.
which is part of what the system might help prevent.

[Ithekro]

The other option seems to be eradication of the Strip to ensure national safety. A few million dollars is probably worth not slaughtering the civilian Palestinians in Gaza for the crimes of the few militants. That is assuming that those in Gaza would rather be left alone than attack.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

it actually is.
right now, the use of rockets can effectively disturb the day to day lives of over 1 million Israeli civilians, which is the whole point.
if thats gone, then they have nothing left.

They'll still be able to disrupt life though. Being shot at by rockets is disruptive whether they hit, miss, or are intercepted.

you're thinking that the goal is to make Hamas "sue for peace" is fundamentally flawed.
Hamas will sue for peace when hell freezes over.
till then, the goal is to prevent them from being able to disrupt day to day life in Israel.

thats the goal.

The only way to avoid that is to get them to sue for peace.

[ganbaru]

A year on, Gulf still grapples with BP oil spill
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73E2OW20110415

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The other option seems to be eradication of the Strip to ensure national safety. A few million dollars is probably worth not slaughtering the civilian Palestinians in Gaza for the crimes of the few militants. That is assuming that those in Gaza would rather be left alone than attack.

think about it like this.

Israel does NOT want to conquer the strip, both because its going to cost countless lives, and because having to actually RULE the strip would be a pain in the ass.

but one of these days, could be a decade from now, could be tomorrow, could be next century, one of those rockets is going to land in a preschool or a Kindergarten, and thats it.
full blow war, and complete conquest of the strip.

this system, might help prevent that from happening.

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

They'll still be able to disrupt life though. Being shot at by rockets is disruptive whether they hit, miss, or are intercepted.

used to be people ran for Cover when they heard the sirens in Ashkelon.
now they pull their cellphones and upload the interception vids to Youtube.
its a hell of a moral boost.

The only way to avoid that is to get them to sue for peace.

and how would you do that ?
how do you propose we make water flow up hill ?

there are no settlements no checkpoints not a single israeli in Gaza (save for 1 prisoner).
not a single concession to be made, because they demand nothing.
do you not get that yet ?

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

usually, war breaks out when one side :
1)wants to go to war
2)believes that they are in a position to win (by their standards of victory).
one does not go to war when they know they have no chance of victory at all.

Some of them believe in 72 virgins in their afterlife if they commit a terror attack. The attackers cannot realy be reasoned with... too much hate everywhere.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

In the case with Hamas, their primary weapon systems when it comes to attacking is launching rockets and morters at Israeli cities, because its the only weapon they have.
they have no tanks, jets, ships, or anything else, just rockets with various degrees of range and power.

Not yet, but when the regimes in the region become true muslim states after the ousting of their corrupted leaderships they might get access to such things...

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

In the last flair up last week, Israel introduced a system called Iron dome.
Iron dome basically works by shooting down any rocket fired by Hamas if the system believes that it would land in a populated area.
so far, Israel only has two batteries, which can protect 2 cities, but in the next few years, Israel plans to build up to a dozen additional batteries, which would cover every city and town within rocket range.

which means, within a decade, Hamas's ONLY weapon is completely useless in battle.
and if, like i mentioned, one side knows that they have no chance of victory, because their only weapon is completely ineffective, one does not go to war.

Hamas and Fatah might not be very powerful in a military sense, but they are powerful in their propaganda approaches that creates like minded people and gives them support from like minded people (especially in muslim countries).
This is basically an arms race the Hamas and Fatah cannot win by themselves. And this is my actual concern, when their supporters realize it, they might not restrain themselves to the support role but intervene actively.
The escalation potential will stay on a high level, and unlike certain coldwar scenarios, the iron dome is not apocalyptic enough to cause the necessary restraint in religious fanatics. So, imo "peace" is anything but a surefire success.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Jinto

Some of them believe in 72 virgins in their afterlife if they commit a terror attack. The attackers cannot realy be reasoned with... too much hate everywhere.

the guys who martyer themselves, those aren't the leaders.
the leader are always the guys who eagerly send OTHERS to their deaths, while hiding under the biggest rock they can find.
that shows reason.

Not yet, but when the regimes in the region become true muslim states after the ousting of their corrupted leaderships they might get access to such things...

Syria has all those things, and yet they invest almost entirely in rockets and missiles.

the switch from conventional armed forces to high trajectory weapons isn't a result of lack of means, but an understanding that they will forever lose in conventional confrontation.
if they start sending tanks and fighter plans against us, it would be suicide for them, and they know it.

Hamas and Fatah might not be very powerful in a military sense, but they are powerful in their propaganda approaches that creates like minded people and gives them support from like minded people (especially in muslim countries).

This is basically an arms race the Hamas and Fatah cannot win by themselves. And this is my actual concern, when their supporters realize it, they might not restrain themselves to the support role but intervene actively.

that Flotilla fiasco was a good example.
as is the next Flotilla planned for next month.

The escalation potential will stay on a high level, and unlike certain coldwar scenarios, the iron dome is not apocalyptic enough to cause the necessary restraint in religious fanatics. So, imo "peace" is anything but a surefire success.

Its not suppose to be the deterrent.
its suppose to cancel out THEIR deterrent.

the FACT that their own deterrent is cancelled, THATS the deterrent.

[ganbaru]

Syrian dies of wounds, democracy protest in 5th week
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72N2MC20110416

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Which is already the situation and has been for quite some time. This just makes it a bit more lopsided. Iron dome won't stop attacks from occurring, and military retaliation won't make Hamas sue for peace any more than past Israeli military action has. The idea that if Israel can just hit them hard enough, if they can just make the cost so stacked against the Palestinians, they'll give up is fundamentally flawed.

Oh, you can hit anyone hard enough to make them give up.

The problem is that Israel can't maintain international support for their existence if they essentially go out and level the West Bank and Gaza strip and cause hundreds of thousands of civillian casualties.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

if thats gone, then they have nothing left.

This is just a short term band aid fix though. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict has gone on for decades, and there's no indication that it won't continue to go on. No defense stays impenetrable forever.

In ten, twenty years the Palestinians will have come up with a new method for attacking Israel. Just a few days ago a laser guided was fired from the Gaza strip at a school bus. If it had been fired five minutes earlier, they'd have killed dozens of children.


Iron Dome is only a temporary respite. Israel is still very much surrounded and threatened by people who want them dead.

[bladeofdarkness]

The ATGM threat is actually easier to counter

just plant trees in front of roads exposed to gaza view

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by flying ^

Protestants: reliable base of support for Republicans
Catholics: reliable base of support for Democrats

That hasn't been true for decades now. Really, go look at some polling or survey data before you make ridiculous claims like this. Here's a good summary of support by different religious groups in the 2004 presidential election for instance.

The only religious groups who reliably support the Democrats by large margins are Jews, members of minority religions, and the irreligious. There may be something of a "spurious correlation" between Catholicism and Democratic support that reflects the affiliations of Hispanics who are both Catholic and Democrats. I'd argue this has little or nothing to do with their Catholicism, though, the same way African-Americans support for Democrats has little or nothing to do with their Protestantism. Non-Hispanic Catholics who attend Mass weekly supported Bush over Kerry by a two-to-one margin.

[SaintessHeart]

Another air controller sleeps; U.S. to change scheduling

(Reuters) - U.S. aviation regulators, investigating unsettling disclosures of sleeping air traffic controllers, will ban scheduling practices most likely to result in drowsiness at work.

The Federal Aviation Administration also said on Saturday it had suspended a controller in Miami for nodding off on the job, the fifth incident of that type identified in recent weeks and the second at a major center.

"We will do everything we can to put an end to this," FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said in a statement.

The string of cases, including one at Washington's Reagan National airport where the lone controller fell asleep on the March 23 midnight shift with two jetliners en route, have alarmed regulators and safety advocates and raised questions about scheduling.

The FAA official responsible for overseeing the day-to-day operations of 15,000 controllers at more than 400 airports resigned on Thursday.

The agency also ended the practice of staffing overnight shifts with one controller, which had occurred at more than two dozen airports. Those were mainly small centers with very light traffic after midnight.

In addition, the FAA said on Saturday it would by early next week prohibit scheduling practices most likely to result in tired controllers.

Any changes must be negotiated with the union representing controllers, but they could include doing away with midnight schedule swaps, curbing efforts to compress work schedules, or eliminating cases where controllers end one shift and then report for another after a short period.

"We are taking important steps today that will make a real difference in fighting air traffic controller fatigue. But we know we'll need to do more," Babbitt said.

Controller schedule changes would not reduce tower operations, which would affect airline flights.

The biggest centers, like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, have more than one controller on duty at all times. This also includes Miami, where FAA on Saturday said it suspended another controller for sleeping on the job at an air traffic facility that handles aircraft routing.

A preliminary review of the incident showed the controller did not miss any radio contact from aircraft and that no flights were affected. There were 12 controllers on duty at the time, the FAA said.

About time! What took them so long?

They should just burn the guys doing the payroll who suggested scheduling less FACs to ease cost and maintain profits - which dumbfuck thought that having less controllers will reduce costs? What about passenger safety that increases by tenfold when an air-controller faints due to fatigue? All the terms and conditions written behind the air ticket can't even save a cent in that case!

We are beginning to see more retards joining managements in every single organisation. Lovely.

[MrTerrorist]

American tycooon signs AS Roma takeover deal

First Manchester United, now AS Roma. Do you think more European football/soccer clubs will be owned by Americans?

[Ithekro]

Only if they think there is money in it.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Another air controller sleeps; U.S. to change scheduling



About time! What took them so long?

They should just burn the guys doing the payroll who suggested scheduling less FACs to ease cost and maintain profits - which dumbfuck thought that having less controllers will reduce costs? What about passenger safety that increases by tenfold when an air-controller faints due to fatigue? All the terms and conditions written behind the air ticket can't even save a cent in that case!

We are beginning to see more retards joining managements in every single organisation. Lovely.

The end-game result of employees always being treated worse because they're "working fewer and fewer employees to death" ... something that happens when no one speaks for the employees.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The end-game result of employees always being treated worse because they're "working fewer and fewer employees to death" ... something that happens when no one speaks for the employees.

Well, the NATCA does work in that capacity, but as you and I both know, it was the 1981 PATCO strike that changed everything in the industry. Most people have no idea how overworked and underpaid most airline industry employees are, which is a shame.

Then again it seems like most people haven't quite figured out the correlation between the loss of unions and the decrease in quality working conditions and benefits.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The end-game result of employees always being treated worse because they're "working fewer and fewer employees to death" ... something that happens when no one speaks for the employees.

Employees shouldn't need anyone to speak for them; they should be free to speak for themselves. But who's going to tell their boss 'no' knowing it'll take him half a day to hire someone who will say 'yes'?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Employees shouldn't need anyone to speak for them; they should be free to speak for themselves. But who's going to tell their boss 'no' knowing it'll take him half a day to hire someone who will say 'yes'?

I once did a project research on management where I interviewed business solution providers and freelance advertisers. From what I heard from them, the major flaw in many "ailing" businesses is that they hire everyone who sing the same song - there is no differences in opinion and understanding.

Negotiations and consensus is something that pushes innovation. That is one reason why Microsoft is slowly losing market share - it isn't innovating because nobody in the office dares to.

[ganbaru]

China raises bank reserves again
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73G0S420110417

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Employees shouldn't need anyone to speak for them; they should be free to speak for themselves. But who's going to tell their boss 'no' knowing it'll take him half a day to hire someone who will say 'yes'?

I'd refer you to the "peasants" versus "the lord" feudal system and how that eventually led to things like the French Revolution.