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Old 2020-11-21, 19:49   Link #281
Kanon
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The only mystery for me is Satoko. The rest seem rather straightforward, Shion was the one during the ladder scene. She went crazy and killed the three heads who she thought were responsible for the curse. Mion was the one at the house, it's obvious from her line of thinking: she knows the three main family have nothing to do with it, and she suspects the village elders do it. She even mentions to Keiichi that the Furude family has lost most of its influence, which is the opposite of what Shion was saying (she thought Rika was the mastermind).
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Old 2020-11-21, 20:01   Link #282
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I was referring to his perception of the situation as it happened, not his ability to distinguish the twins or the images of the bodies. His perception of what was happening as it happened didn't show signs of delusion or hallucination. And while Rena did indeed have apparently lucid moments when she went crazy, as I said before when she was actually diving into the delusions she was very different. In other words, if Mion was suffering from the condition, I'd expect some signs of distress when she was telling Keiichi about how people were using the curse as an excuse to kill, or when she saw the people coming and started preparing to fight. At those sorts of points she'd be slipping further into the delusions and it'd be very difficult to avoid showing signs. I'm sorry, but I just find it hard to say that the Mion we saw in the cellar was even L3, much less L5.

On a different note, I actually sort of suspected that the Mion we saw at the school might have been Shion, specifically because the incident was so close, practically identical to the incident in the original series, right down to her eventually just repeating "chigainai chigainai chigainai".
Actually, the one with no previous signs of the virus in this arc is Shion.

Remember, there are some keypoints where we can identify the twins rather clearly. Then they walked down the temple hill, and Mion asked a rather similar question to what "Shion" later asked on the phone.
Note her expression from the moment on she realized Shion might have gotten Keiichi into trouble.
The ladder thing was clearly also her having a minor Syndrome fit.

MY theory in regards to that is that Mion was actually waiting for him to come clean, so she could tell everyone that she'd take care of his punishment personally and then tell everyone that she has taken care of it.

By my theory, by locking him up in the dungeon for a while. Frankly, she could have even made him do the fingernail thing, it wouldn't have changed a thing. - Other than that any answer to her confession would be fear driven, that is.

The only thing that is imho raising a chance the twin in the basement was Shion is that she was far too calm while confessing.
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Old 2020-11-21, 21:36   Link #283
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Actually, the one with no previous signs of the virus in this arc is Shion.

Remember, there are some keypoints where we can identify the twins rather clearly. Then they walked down the temple hill, and Mion asked a rather similar question to what "Shion" later asked on the phone.
Note her expression from the moment on she realized Shion might have gotten Keiichi into trouble.
The ladder thing was clearly also her having a minor Syndrome fit.

MY theory in regards to that is that Mion was actually waiting for him to come clean, so she could tell everyone that she'd take care of his punishment personally and then tell everyone that she has taken care of it.

By my theory, by locking him up in the dungeon for a while. Frankly, she could have even made him do the fingernail thing, it wouldn't have changed a thing. - Other than that any answer to her confession would be fear driven, that is.

The only thing that is imho raising a chance the twin in the basement was Shion is that she was far too calm while confessing.
I'll just have to disagree. As Kanon said, it seems quite plausible for the ladder to be Shion, and the things said there were a little off of what was said in the cellar, raising the possibility that it wasn't the same person. I've never seen anything to suggest that the one in the cellar was anyone but Mion though.
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Old 2020-11-21, 23:16   Link #284
Marina2
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"Houjou Satoko is an accomplice of the real culprit. In this timeline (Gou), she knows that Satoshi, her brother, is still alive under the care of "[x] organization" so she agrees to work with them in exchange for her brother's survival!"

"This level of reasoning is possible for Furudo Erika. What do you think, everyone?"
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Last edited by Marina2; 2020-11-21 at 23:26.
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Old 2020-11-21, 23:28   Link #285
berin
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Many are hesitating that Mion could reach a high level of HS without exhibiting outward symptoms, but wasn't this already confirmed to be possible through Satoko in the past?

Spoiler for Excerpt of piece #6 from Matsuribayashi-hen:

Not saying I think Mion went L5 (if that was even her onscreen), but rather I don't think it can be ruled out just from 'it didn't look like an L5 state'.
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Old 2020-11-22, 08:26   Link #286
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Therefore in the latest episode, there's no mistake that it's Shion's body in the well, therefore it was actually Mion that sealed Keiichi in the prison, and who was the apparent culprit this time? That's a bit difficult to swallow, since we know from previous arcs that it's Shion with the motive.
I think that there's an underlying theme in this whole series that using the knowledge acquired from the previous events leads to making huge mistakes. This is exemplified by Rika telling K1 to trust Rena thinking it was another Onikakushi timeline, then by telling him to give the doll to Mion thinking that it was the Watanagashi\Meakashi timeline.

Now it's still possible that Mion didn't actually kill anyone. We haven't seen her killing or even attacking anybody, moreover the person she was going to meet with a gun in hand was probably not even Satoko. But using our previous knowledge of the situation to base our reasoning is probably a bad idea. There's a clear spelled out trap in this series and it fully relies on us assuming it's the same "game" as before.


Now I will concede that perhaps Mion never actually reached L5, but there sure was something wrong in her behavior, locking up K1 and thinking that the 3 families (and let's not forget that Rika is all that's left of the Furude family) were responsible for the killing and disappearances of Oyashiro's curse isn't something that Mion has ever done or thought before. I'm pretty certain that in this timeline Mion ended up believing the same delusions that plagued Shion's mind in the original series and the trigger is probably the usual doll.


At any rate gathering the hints so far I think this point is the most relevant:

Takano has nothing to do with it, and the Hinamizawa disaster never happens. There's another mastermind at work leading the Yamainu (or perhaps a completely different group) instead of Takano. In the remote case that Takano is still the mastermind, then it's like a completely different version of Takano with a completely different objective.
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Old 2020-11-22, 09:24   Link #287
Jaden
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Takano has nothing to do with it
How can that be, though? Knowing her backstory, there's really just one explanation for her presence in the village. She certainly doesn't act any different.

Sure, her plans can get sidelined if others take action before her. That's what happened in the Watanagashi/Meakashi timeline. Shion went on a rampage, so the whole great disaster plan got canceled.

The only thing that I know has changed for sure is Rika. My theory, though it's still very low-resolution, is that the timelines in this new series aren't that different from the previous ones. But it's somehow Rika's own actions that are derailing them.
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Old 2020-11-22, 09:37   Link #288
Marina2
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
How can that be, though? Knowing her backstory, there's really just one explanation for her presence in the village. She certainly doesn't act any different.

Sure, her plans can get sidelined if others take action before her. That's what happened in the Watanagashi/Meakashi timeline. Shion went on a rampage, so the whole great disaster plan got canceled.
Thing is.......She seemingly abandoned her "plan" even before there were any sign of failure happened in both Onidamashi and Watadamashi. Moreover, if we consider that Takano and Tomitake also fled the village in Onidamashi, then Takano probably not involved in what happened after the night of festival in Gou at all.
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Old 2020-11-22, 10:23   Link #289
Jaden
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It's only natural that there's not yet any clue about Takano's involvement. First two arcs of the original don't have any tells either, even if you know what to look for.
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Old 2020-11-22, 12:44   Link #290
Jan-Poo
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Well apart from the the fact that Takano leaves with Tomitake instead of going with her usual plan which necessarily requires one dead person and an a disappearance (which has never happened so far in Gou), there's also the fact that Takano in the original series had absolutely no interest in the whole situation in Hinamizawa outside the realization of her personal plan.

In Watanagashi/Meakashi her plans are also foiled be the premature death of Rika, however by that point she and the Yamainu completely abandon any initiative and everything that happens is just and solely Shion going wild. Here however there is more than enough evidence that shows that regardless of the plan going wrong early on, some kind of organization is still active.
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Old 2020-11-22, 13:56   Link #291
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by berin View Post
Many are hesitating that Mion could reach a high level of HS without exhibiting outward symptoms, but wasn't this already confirmed to be possible through Satoko in the past?

Spoiler for Excerpt of piece #6 from Matsuribayashi-hen:

Not saying I think Mion went L5 (if that was even her onscreen), but rather I don't think it can be ruled out just from 'it didn't look like an L5 state'.
Well Mion has never snapped before, so it's hard for people to accept that there might be a shard where she could. Especially since Shion used to be the prime yandere example before Yuno came around, despite it not even being fully true.

But yeah I can't understand why people don't want to accept a possible shard with Mion as culprit either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'll just have to disagree. As Kanon said, it seems quite plausible for the ladder to be Shion, and the things said there were a little off of what was said in the cellar, raising the possibility that it wasn't the same person. I've never seen anything to suggest that the one in the cellar was anyone but Mion though.
Yes some things said in the cellar were strange, but for both of the twins.
Shion wouldn't need to be as happy being treated like a girl as Mion would be, while the calm confession seems strange for Mion.

The issue is just, that it only looks strange under normal circumstances.
Mion is basically a different person when wearing her Kimono, so it becomes less surprising.

Shion's snapping also usually looks a lot different from what we see in the ladder scene, and even if we assume it was Shion, she would have still spoken with Mion's voice which would be strange during one of her snap-fits.

A possible point where they could have swapped is when Mion went to making tea, however, that would leave us with a bit of a timing problem.

Shion also lacks a motive for lying to Keiichi about the torture tools not having been used, because we know they were, and so do both sisters.

What we do indeed not know is, where each sister's corpse was found, as their identities remain a mystery to us.
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Old 2020-11-22, 17:48   Link #292
maximilianjenus
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Just wanting to point out that atm, the three outfits thing annoys me a Lot. I Guess the culprit Will be one of the sonozaki triplets, whom feed everyone small bombs.
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Old 2020-11-22, 18:10   Link #293
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by berin View Post
Many are hesitating that Mion could reach a high level of HS without exhibiting outward symptoms, but wasn't this already confirmed to be possible through Satoko in the past?

Spoiler for Excerpt of piece #6 from Matsuribayashi-hen:

Not saying I think Mion went L5 (if that was even her onscreen), but rather I don't think it can be ruled out just from 'it didn't look like an L5 state'.
I assume this is from the game? I only recall one scene with Satoko when she was in a full L5 without treatment, and they were having trouble holding her down.

Also, perhaps we could have some elaboration as to how Shion snapping is different from what we saw here with the ladder? Because it looks almost identical to the ladder scene from the first series, which was clearly shown to have been Shion. Only difference is the source of the break, which makes sense if in this line she remembers Satoshi wanting her to take care of Satoko. And we'd seen in the past that this is another possible path for a break for her, as she nearly went ballistic out of a desire to protect Satoko in one of the answer arcs until Keiichi stopped her (and admitted that if she hadn't lost it he would have).
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Old 2020-11-22, 18:10   Link #294
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
Just wanting to point out that atm, the three outfits thing annoys me a Lot. I Guess the culprit Will be one of the sonozaki triplets, whom feed everyone small bombs.
It's just twins though... Their mother doesn't look enough like them.
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Old 2020-11-25, 18:14   Link #295
The Creator
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I agree with what many have said someone must be
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Old 2020-11-26, 10:18   Link #296
Justice Knight
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can some1 expain to me how this series works? in ep4 rena and 2 girls died, then next ep every1 is still alive. And now we have the same curse but affect different people, so i gonna assume every1 is gonna magically revived and the series will have the curse affect different people.
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Old 2020-11-26, 10:32   Link #297
The Green One
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Basically we're dealing with self contained realities. So after a series of events with all the blood and death and then we start again with everyone alive again means we've left the previous "reality" and are starting in a new one. These different realities have different tragedies based on different series of events. Part of the point of the series is figuring out just what the f*** is happening and realizing that not everything you see is accurate and real.
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Old 2020-11-26, 11:50   Link #298
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
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can some1 expain to me how this series works? in ep4 rena and 2 girls died, then next ep every1 is still alive. And now we have the same curse but affect different people, so i gonna assume every1 is gonna magically revived and the series will have the curse affect different people.
It's like the groundhog day also known as a "time loop". Basically a certain character in the story restarts from a certain point in time whenever they die. So each "arc" you see a slightly different different variation of the same days witnessed by this person (because it's not just a time loop it's also a parallel universe jump), though the narration doesn't necessarily focus on that person.

Anyway if you haven't seen the original anime or played the original visual novel or read the manga, you are going to get heavily spoiled, because this isn't a remake, it's a sequel.
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Old 2020-11-26, 13:12   Link #299
MCAL
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Shion calling herself Saroko's Nee-Nee... I don't remember that from the original tatarigoroshi. And I suspect that might have repercussions on what will happen next.
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Old 2020-11-26, 13:28   Link #300
Klashikari
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It only happens if Shion remembers her promise she made with Satoshi, so yeah, it never happens in a Tatarigoroshi-type of fragment. I assume Tataridamashi will be quite similar to Tsukiotoshi (PS2 arc), although with some huge changes considering GHD not coming to play thus far in Gou.
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