2009-03-03, 20:06 | Link #1501 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-03-03, 20:14 | Link #1503 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
|
Quote:
In my opinion, they need to find a way to justify her reasoning better. Although I can somewhat understand what they were trying to do in portraying Ranka's character, it seems to be misinterpreted, at least in my perspective. I'm actually interested in finding out what exactly they were trying to do with her character after episode 18. Everything we say are only assumptions and pretty much subjective since we don't have any idea what exactly they were trying to do, although we can make educated guesses. I've read all the Ohnogi interviews and such, but they don't really say much besides how much potential her character had, but I want to know what his goal was. I think he mentioned something about Ranka realizing her past but it's still quite vague if you ask me. |
|
2009-03-03, 20:26 | Link #1504 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Yes, the break post-episode 18 was quite jarring, to say the least. The writing team (and Ohnogi is included here) wanted to expand the canvas and, in doing so, tried to move Ranka to a different place. However, the way the final episode actually went, all this carefully constructed character arc was virtually ignored. No, I'm not gonna put all the blame for it on The Hory Froating Head, but I'm sure this was his intent with the final episode - that was the ending he wanted.
The problem is just that it actually pushed back all the advances the character had made: her courage in making a stand (even if I don't really agree with it); choosing a course to follow, even if it meant loneliness; her taking responsibility in trying to end the war... and the mistakes she made. Most grating of all, those mistakes are never mentioned again. Like I said before, it could mostly be chalked up to a misinformation maneuver by the traitor Mushroom-Head, but no mention of even that was made - just a simple "She didn't betray us?" and that was that. Not even her own acknowledgment of her part in the deaths of so many people (however much she was being controlled, at the time). That's mainly what I hope we see in the upcoming movie: Ranka actually showing signs of learning from her experiences. Her character is not all that uninteresting - and I don't mean to make it sound as if it is. My whole problem is with how she ended up accounting for her (in)actions. If they can expand that in the movie, I'll be a happy camper.
__________________
Last edited by BetoJR; 2009-03-03 at 20:37. |
2009-03-05, 05:26 | Link #1505 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
I'm posting again just to make a point.
It's kinda funny how some people complain about this section of the forum (the Macross section, be it well understood) being nothing more than a kinda shipping-shark-infested mass of water, and when someone actually tries to start a civilized discussion, what happens? Yeah, exactly. NOTHING. Good for us. I've learned my lesson, now.
__________________
Last edited by BetoJR; 2009-03-05 at 07:20. |
2009-03-05, 08:19 | Link #1507 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
|
Quote:
I never felt Ranka had much to atone or account for her (in)actions. We can take someone like Alto who took actions but ultimately the wrong actions. He had an us or them mentality. He never gave thought to peace with the Vajra and was influenced too much by others. Ranka even asked his opinion on the situation and if what they were doing was right. He is someone she trusts and believes in so of course she gives his opinion a lot of weight. He though had the wrong mentality which few ever really point out. Some criticize Ranka for being manipulated by Grace and Leon but so were both Sheryl and Alto to lesser degrees. They too would have just as easily been manipulated if not more so if placed in Ranka's situation. Now Ranka was far from perfect but that's what I found so interesting about her. She was the most complex of the characters and by far the most dynamic. She grew, changed and learned. I don't feel she has to account for her actions (especially in the last episode) when she was basically used as tool by cunning people. Now it would be more realistic if we see people on Macross not being able to forgive her but I don't know if I feel that fits into the spirit of the show. People often think they'd not be as easily manipulated if they were in Ranka's position but generally those people would be all the more easy to manipulate. Ranka had a very unenviable position.
__________________
|
|
2009-03-05, 08:39 | Link #1508 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Yes, Ranka had an unenviable position. But, she didn't really change or grow throughout the course of the series. As the 25th episode ended, she was exactly the same person as she was in the first one. And by her (in)actions, I mean really everything: ditching her own parade, not singing for the grieving populace, leaving Frontier without a real substantive plan... those are the things she should atone. Oh, and it wouldn't be at all unrealistic for her to actually feel some guilt for all the deaths she did cause, while being controlled by Grace. But, alas, we didn't get any of that. The reaction of Frontier's populace would have been a real bonus, too. After all, some people might be really peeved at her perceived slights of her own fans, and thus, she should have considerable troubles trying to restart her singing career - but we didn't get that, either. And it's too bad, as it would have made her character actually go forward, somewhat.
And you can't really blame someone like Alto for not really caring about the mere thought of peace with the Vajra. They were, unwittingly or not, responsible for the deaths of a whole lot of people - and, most importantly, for the deaths of some people he cared about. Also, Sheryl was not manipulated in the least by Leon or Luca. She did take the mantle of the fleet's tool fully knowing they merely intended to use her. And she did it because she wanted to help - that's all in the show, not really speculation, on my part. Her relationship with Grace is another matter, but you can't really blame her for not noticing she was evil - after all, she was the only mother(ly) figure she ever had, as the show made pretty clear.
__________________
|
2009-03-05, 09:07 | Link #1510 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
|
Quote:
Yes, we didn't get to see any of the things of guilt or blame but I felt the show was better for not showing it. The show ended on a positive note of forgiveness and acceptance. It would have been not that great of an ending if we see people throwing blame around. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2009-03-05, 09:29 | Link #1511 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
|
Quote:
Alto didn't communicate with a Varja Queen, Alto didn't cry out to stop when someone was shooting up Varja, Alto didn't decide to not say anything about any of that, Alto didn't feel pain in his body after his singing helped slaughter countless Varja, Alto didn't have fragments of memory about Varja coming back to him throughout the show. Ranka had situational awareness and failed to use it, Alto and everyone else's reactions for the most part towards the varja make sense considering what they knew. God if the Varja had lawyers and found out Ranka knew this from episode 14 onwards and did nothing about it I would expect them to put in a few civil suits. "Honor.. while the defendant was having singing battles against Ms Nome in hospitals she did nothing at all to tell people about our situation!" Really trying to put Alto in the same blame situation as Ranka for this is really rather naive and just flat out wrong. If Ranka looked like a feminine Bobby no one would defend her on this issue period except for "Going against the grain" people. |
|
2009-03-05, 09:52 | Link #1512 |
Mad Scientist #0000
|
I have to agree with BetoJR...She has absolutely no feeling of guilt. Not to mention that she shown nothing when her "best female friend" was in a life or death situation. It would be excusable as the director being lazy and skip that, but she never shown any sense of guilt when she killed probably millions indirectly by her unwillingness to sing[her voice didn't stopped the vajra...she at least can blame herself for it...but there's not a single indication], or her non understanding of the others grieving(not willing to sing again) and in the end when she was controlled by Grace she shown not a single hint of guilt. The thing that more interesting: She shown a lot of sense of guilt when her song used against the Vajra! She placed the existence of Vajra higher than the "human's"(Her own race!!!)...perhaps that's somehow understandable when your stomach hurts every time they're dying in mayor numbers and she have a lot insider information about them....but still. She was selfish, spoiled, weak willed and unable to take responsibility. She was clearly an anti-heroine(ranking higher on the list than Koichi from Linebarells or murderer Musashi...maybe even higher in that Rank than the "God of Death" Light Yagami...just exagrating with the last one). She was clearly not worthy being a heroine...as a side character ok, but as a Main Heroine?
I'm not hating her...just i hate the thing that we got that kind of character as Main Heroine...Because she clearly not someone who up to being in the center of attention...She's moe but immature and no matter what refusing to grow up. Most complex? more appropiately: Alto-complex!She desires high amount of attention and unable to live without it!(ok from Ep 21 it seems that she grown a little, but thanks to Kawamori it was thrown out of the window). I think even the "skycon" Alto more complex than her. She clearly desires just that Alto care abiout her(and he desires perhaps more and more about it) without even giving back something for it. She's nomore other than a spoiled child with interesting background. P.S.: maybe i am a bit more agrtessive today...excuseme for that. |
2009-03-05, 10:14 | Link #1513 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2009-03-05, 10:32 | Link #1514 | ||||||
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Quote:
Also, I noticed you didn't mention her refusal to sing for the mourning populace after the attack in episode 20. That's okay, too? Not something that needs to be addressed? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for your last post, replying to Westlo: if Ranka did not have an inkling as to what she could do about the Vajra (ie. Reasoning with them), then WHAT THE HELL WAS SHE GOING TO DO WHEN SHE GOT TO THEIR PLANET? I hope you don't want to claim that she was so ignorant to the point of going there without a hope of doing something. However poorly planned it was, it was a bold decision. However, as it turned out, it was a wrong decision, as well. If she had gone to someone else and explained just what exactly she intended to do (instead of only reaching out to Alto), things might not have happened quite so badly. But the series didn't go that way, so we'll never know. But I know I can say what she did was wrong, in my mind's eye, even if she had all of the most noble intentions while doing it.
__________________
|
||||||
2009-03-05, 10:38 | Link #1515 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-03-05, 10:48 | Link #1516 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Ranka was half Vajra? I didn't know that...
And you're still trying to make other characters to be the bad guys, by comparison, when they couldn't be anything but what they were, since they were in the middle of a war, with an enemy that couldn't be understood or reasoned with. At least, not that anyone knew - but Ranka. Also, this is the Ranka thread, not the Alto or Sheryl's one. I, for one, am not trying to throw blame around. I just wish for some kinda weight to the character's decisions, which was severely lacking by the final episode. And after such high hopes I had, since episode 21 ended with her teary-eyed goodbye to Alto. Oh, well...
__________________
|
2009-03-05, 10:49 | Link #1518 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
I feel that Ranka has developed a lot in the series. From a girl who wants to chase her dream, and in the process, she learns that she has some special power, and finally mature enough to use her power properly for both sides (human and vajra)
Her departure to the Vajra planet is a break through in the story. Had everything remained as status quo, no matter how hard Alto and Sheryl tried, the fate of Macross Frontier is still a bad end (because that Leon is in control, and Leon basically blocks any idea of co-existence with Vajra) @MFSXA she intented to find a way to end the war when she left...I believe a scene when she arrived to Vajra planet, she told her bro to drop off the weapon, and she said there should be a way that human and vajra don't need to fight each other
__________________
|
2009-03-05, 10:55 | Link #1519 | |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Quote:
But that decision did cost Frontier a lot of lives, in the end. Her going out to space with a single ship and no back-up was brave, but stupid as well. After all, that was plainly shown in the series. However, her courage showed through there, and her determination. Too bad they kind of let that go, in the end and she reverted to what she was before. She was still "a girl who wants to chase her dream", as per her challenge towards Sheryl, in the last moments of the 25th episode. No gravitas, at all. And, of course, she intended to find an end to the war. But that's not really how she voiced what she was trying to do to the only person she reached out, Alto. Not that it would have mattered much, but it could have planted some sort of seed in his mind, I dunno...
__________________
|
|
|
|