[Manga] Chapter 513 Discussion

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Meh. In my opinion it doesn't mean much either way. The fodder fights will be insignificant at the end of the day, and will only serve as a reinforcing medium for displaying a characters momentum and resolve. At best, we'll probably see a team of ninjas form up together to produce some strong jutsu, of the caliber of what Sasuke and Madara are able to do themselves (similar to what those no-names did during the Asuma vs Kakazu and Hidan fight).

So, no-names fighting clones, no-names fighting huge beasts, or no-names fighting some other rag-tag no-name thug gang from the other cities; not much difference in my eyes; they'll all be relatively boring. Essentially none of them mean anything to us, since we don't know them (the beasts, rag-tag thugs, clones, fodder ninja), and no time will be wasted for us to know them to have any sentiment for any of them. The fight will just serve as a distraction, which we have enough of already (and more interesting ones at that, such as Kabuto's mysterious agenda).

But Cat, think about it, Half Naked Man-plants!, 10,000 of them! it just feels nasty

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

He does not deem it necessary? one of the main reason Madara is caving to Kabuto's demand to join him is because madara realizes that fighting him would result in weakening his own battle strength. It was also said that the likely reason madara attempted negotiation at the summit was because he was not positive that he could win in a direct confrontation... Madara is NOT in a confident enough position where he would find extra s-class ninjas as "unnecessary"

You do realize that it wasn't Madara that went out to look for Kabuto(or anyone else) to join his little tea party right? If faced with the choice of a major confrontation with Kabuto(right before confronting the Kages) or having him as an ally for the time being the answer is quite clear.

As shrewd and calculating as Madara is, I seriously doubt he'd give the ninja world an ultimatum against the ninja world if he felt he wasn't prepared. And, the argument about Madara attempting negotiations is also flawed, since he could have been naturally searching for the route of least resistance. Why go the hard route? However, he was/is clearly prepared to do so, and even before Kabuto joined him by the way.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Even the idea that the missingnin are not willing to work with him does not seem that great of a reason... afterall, most of Akatsuki were manipulated into helping him.

...And, most of Akatsuki were of a certain quality --mainly criminals/rebels who didn't care about anything or anyone, except getting what they wanted, regardless of the consequences. Unfortunately for Madara, not everyone is like that. Look what happened when Orochimaru tried to manipulate Tsunade; some people just know better and have good judgment.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

He doesn't need these ninjas to actually identify with his plans, all he needs to do is find out what they want, and make a false promise to give them what they want.

If it were that easy, why not recruit the Kages themselves? He did have one under control, but why did he stop there? Hell, while we're at it, why do we need to cast genjitsu on the world if he has that much manipulative power right now? Of course the answer is, its not that easy. Not everyone is a selfish mercenary, or a malleable psychopath.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

That is one the most common and flawed arguments made to defend poor writing...
One does NOT need to be a great writer to realize weather or not another writer's abilities are good. Creating a story from scratch and analyzing a story are two very different things... a persona can be good at analyzing a story but at the same time not good at coming up with one on their own; creating a story from scratch can take a lot of time and imagination which someone with an analytical mind may not have, but just because they lack the imagination to come up with a story on their own does not mean they are not able to see the many faults that exist in a story... hell they may even have enough imagination on there own to see greater possibilities... and even if you have the imagination to create a story from scratch does not necessarily mean you have enough to make a truly great story

Ok, 1) I was not "defending" his less than stellar writing, I even admitted his writing is not always the best it can be, including pretty much all other authors, and 2) I never stated one needs to be a great writer in order to critique another writer's work(though not many people who slam the author here are good at critiquing either...). Its annoying to read someone who can't write or critique(apparently) call Kishimoto a bad author based on a relatively bad chapter, effectively disregarding all his other work, especially when his good work far outweighs his relatively bad work. If someone thinks its a bad chapter, hey call it a bad chapter, and at least know what you're talking about.

It is also annoying to read people allegedly discovering "plot-holes" and trying to slam the author when their entire premise is horribly flawed and based on a non-existent plot hole, and they themselves are obviously not too great at writing or critiquing.

@Rurik: haha, I'll be focusing on the real battles.

[ShadowAssasin]

Interesting that a bullshit fodder fight stirs up this much concern; if it were instead a naked army of Konan clones we probably wouldn't be reading any of these complaints.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by ShadowAssasin

Interesting that a bullshit fodder fight stirs up this much concern; if it were instead a naked army of Konan clones we probably wouldn't be reading any of these complaints.

I don't know, people did complain for several weeks about her using six hundred billion explosive tags, so if she could make a 100,000 clones (or a 100,000 clones were made of her), people would still complain.

[Kafriel]

I would be shocked if Sasuke doesn't fight the Itachi zombie.

I'd be shocked if the Itachi zombie doesn't kick everyone's ass...

So, no-names fighting clones, no-names fighting huge beasts, or no-names fighting some other rag-tag no-name thug gang from the other cities; not much difference in my eyes; they'll all be relatively boring.

I'll second that, as we just went through this in bleach (and with popular characters no less) and yet it still left a bad taste.

I really, really, REALLY hope it doesn't happen. Jiraiya is one of the most beloved characters -- to use him with Edo Tensei would just be effed up. It'd really turn me off from reading the manga.

Would it be any different if he was rezzed with another jutsu?

We need Rookie 9 fanservice.

And I think that's all they have left to offer...
Back to the plot, I'm not a fan of large scale wars, and this is totally subjective but underground tournament from hell would have been more exciting than Zetsu overwhelming the planet. Oh, and I don't like the way Hashirama is being used, as if he's some kinda magic juice you can use on anything to buff it up. Anyways, my complaints are on the minor scale, they certainly don't affect my opinion of the manga, due to the impression every single other arc has left me.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by ShadowAssasin

Interesting that a bullshit fodder fight stirs up this much concern; if it were instead a naked army of Konan clones we probably wouldn't be reading any of these complaints.

No, we wouldn't be complaining because that would be awesome.

But then again, Kishi has no idea how to draw a female body, so I guess it's a moot point.

[kusanagi25]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

No, we wouldn't be complaining because that would be awesome.

But then again, Kishi has no idea how to draw a female body, so I guess it's a moot point.

i dont think any mangaka can draw a female body.

but mizukage isnt that bad

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by james0246

I don't know, people did complain for several weeks about her using six hundred billion explosive tags, so if she could make a 100,000 clones (or a 100,000 clones were made of her), people would still complain.

. Let me repeat that: if we instead had a naked. Army. Of Konan clones. There were quite probably as much, or more people here complaining about not seeing her without her robe than anything else about her (not that there is much to complain about anyway). Pure foolery.

I'm looking forward to seeing the tschukage in action, he's a pretty likable character, and Deidara was enjoyable as soon as the chapter started and we were shown than mischievous smile lol. Their rivalry is very entertaining. I wonder if Kabuto can make Itachi bring Orochimaru back --or if he would even want to do such a thing?

[Shingai-san]

Orochimaru, Tsunade, and for the most part anyone born during their era is done. He trained Sasuke and made him an even more demented fuck twat than he was before which was his characters entire point from the beginning.

Really, I could care less about the clone army. Virtually no panel time will be given to them anyways. I would have loved if Kishi decided to use Madara and make the villages against one another, but that simply would not work for this series... it's made for 13 year old kids who want to see the world in an idealistic light, Naruto being fucking Jesus and bringing everyone together or some shit.

[Midnight Commander]

The poor fools don't know they are in over their heads charging in there on those two jinchuriki like that. Deidaras gonna get his reckless ass killed, again. The tsuchikage doesn't look like a push-over either.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

The poor fools don't know they are in over their heads charging in there on those two jinchuriki like that. Deidaras gonna get his reckless ass killed, again. The tsuchikage doesn't look like a push-over either.

If the villains don't look like threats now, and just get their arses kicked, then they'll never look like threats later.

Honestly, the next few battles in this war should weed out some of the good guys. Both Kirabi and Tsuchikage in this battle. Kirabi because he is not needed now and Naruto needs to be the last jin. Onoki because well, he is old, and not a character we really know anyway. Most of the Kages should met their deaths in this war.

We all know Deidara and the rest of the zombies are going to get killed again. That's why they are back.

[james0246]

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