2013-10-17, 11:30 | Link #1761 | |
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2013-10-17, 11:40 | Link #1762 | |
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So one part of the rule change involves slightly less transparency, and the other part of the rule change involves much greater transparency. The net effect is more transparency, imo.
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2013-10-17, 11:42 | Link #1763 | |
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Revealing the post-purge results has little meaning if they also make a rule that allows them to completely make up those results. Let me ask you a question: How do you know today Sayaka had really 280 votes and not 210 or 150? The answer is: you don't. This result comes from out of nowhere. Is it really good to have a result that could be completely false? Before the new rules, you or me or anybody could check if the admins had counted the votes properly. Now we can not. That's less transparency. |
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2013-10-17, 11:43 | Link #1764 |
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Age: 42
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Woohoo! Sayaka wins her 2nd Group finals. It'll be very exciting to see her once again in the Finals Round of this year's Saimoe...
Now to unleash... Spoiler for Ultimate Sayaka!!!:
Along with Mami and Kyouko, Sayaka now has 2 Prelims wins and 2 Group Block wins... |
2013-10-17, 12:02 | Link #1765 | |
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Besides, if you're going to be this cynical, then how do you know that any released codes were codes actually used for votes? They could just release a bunch of phony codes that they came up with themselves. Look, no matter how transparent a voting-based competition is, you still have to have at least some trust in the vote counters. This applies to actual real-world political elections to determine who's going to be leading the free world, let alone some moe competition done mostly just for fun. Before the latest rule change, it could be rigged. After the latest rule change, it could still be rigged. So that hasn't change at all. So it's no worse now than it was before. What has changed is at least now we're getting to see the numerical impact of the rule change. And that's a good thing. So on the whole, I think it's more transparent now.
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2013-10-17, 12:25 | Link #1766 | |
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2013-10-17, 12:31 | Link #1767 | |
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Guys, if you want to get really cynical, there's no end to how far the rabbit hole goes down. At some point, you either trust the vote counters or you don't. People lost trust not because of the rule change, per se. Some people lost trust because of the rule change's impact. In other words, the impact of certain characters vote support falling off a cliff. If Nodoka, Toki, and a few other girls never saw half or so of their support totally evaporate into thin air, nobody would have cared much about the rule change. So that's what is most important, imo. Counted vote totals both pre and post-purge.
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2013-10-17, 12:57 | Link #1768 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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If you ask me, the moment they started mass banning IPs for no reason and creating retarded rules each year about who is allowed to vote starting some years ago was the moment I lost faith to whoever's organizing the tournament. What I'm seeing now is just the icing on the cake.
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2013-10-17, 13:09 | Link #1769 | ||||
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Join Date: May 2013
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Age: 31
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My obligatory grats to Watashi and Sayaka for winning their blocks. But especially Sayaka.
Thanks. I'll tell you if it works in my next post here. Quote:
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Adult Sayaka? :3 Quote:
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And mind that Saki wasn't the only faction affected. This fact worries the other factions too: what if their faction is next?
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2013-10-17, 14:54 | Link #1770 | |
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I understand "transparency" in this context as "having ways to check on the ones in charge". Not having the counted codes/votes means there are no ways to check on the admins, so the tournament has lost some transparency. I agree with you that having the post-purge results is a good thing but without the corresponding codes, this is just a number. In other words, having the post-purge results and the corresponding codes would bring more transparency. Having one without the other, it does not. (Let me be clear: having the post-purge results alone is still better than nothing but it just does not bring more transparency as defined above.) Of course the tournament could also be rigged before the rule change (just like any election), but now it is much much easier for them to do it. Before, we had to put some trust in the admins. Now we have to trust them completely. There is a difference between some trust and complete trust. No, they could not. Every released code is matched with a vote (every vote needs a valid code to be counted). If the admins released a bunch of phony codes, they could not match them with any votes. If they counted them anyway, this could easily be seen and contested by anyone. Actually, this is a good example of how there used to be means to check if the admins did anything suspicious. Now we don't have the post-purge codes, so now they could do something like this if they wanted to. |
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2013-10-17, 15:33 | Link #1771 | ||
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But in any event... Are you actually saying that every code for every vote in every match was made available during the voting to the general public? If so, then that's even beyond what ISML shows for its votes. Why should J-SaiMoe be held to even higher standards than ISML?
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2013-10-17, 15:46 | Link #1772 | ||
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I don't know much about ISML but it's just a list of codes. I don't see why is that impressive but oh well. |
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2013-10-17, 20:33 | Link #1776 | |
┌(^o^)┘モリ!┌(^o^)┘モリ!
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I agree with you on that after seeing that rule's details. Last edited by Ichuki; 2013-10-17 at 20:45. |
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2013-10-18, 02:50 | Link #1777 | |
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Regarding the possibility of rigging hurting Madoka, keep in mind that having the Madoka fans campaign aggressively is probably the best way of getting new fans into the tournament now. Madoka is a huge phenomenon in the anime world which appeals to casuals, unlike Saki, which has a small circle of hardcore fans.
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2013-10-18, 08:15 | Link #1778 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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The fact that the organizer change the rule in the middle of the tournament make it even more suspicious. NBA change rule when season end, not in the middle of tournament. If the organizers are in fact sincere,they would have change the rule a few months,weeks before the tournament begin.
It's like at first, they don't care but when they realize their favorite characters are threaten by other factions as the tournament progress,they decided to change rule to find excuse to ban voters who will vote against the characters they support while at the same time,allowed the admin inflate their favorite characters votes and decrease the votes of the characters they feel are threat. Did Chuunibyou really lost? Did Mami really beat Toki? Only God and Saimoe organizer knows if those characters who won their respective matches ever since the new rule apply really win their match fair and square. I really question the credibility of Saimoe organizer. At this point,Saimoe is really become like wrestling where everything is scripted. Quote:
Last edited by Archaeon; 2013-11-22 at 12:10. |
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2013-10-18, 09:08 | Link #1779 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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It's more like banning certain NBA players from the league for being suspected of doping, and adding new testing regulations for a hitherto unknown form of steroids. Not saying that they've ran the tournament well, but I think it's hasty to start accusing them of rigging things. And what if the admins are cracking down on real cheating? Did Biribiri really lose to Nodoka? Did IkaMusume really lose to Shinka? |
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2013-10-18, 09:26 | Link #1780 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Applying new general rule is a whole different story. New rule need to be applied at the start of the tournament to make sure ALL other matches right from the very beginning goes under the same rule. Rule must be consistent through out the entire tournament. NBA are consistent in their rule to make sure all matches in that particular season are played under the same rule but,this is not the case with Saimoe who changes the rule in the middle of the tournament. That is why I said if the admin really sincere,he would have done that from the very beginning to make sure all matches play under the same rule. Quote:
As someone already said,everything is less transparent making thing suspicious. It's like in election where scrutineers are not allowed to see the ballot count. We need to know 'how you are doing'. Criteria for elimination remain unclear. Quoted from Ani-List, 'The admins are subjectively swinging matches in a totally non-transparent way, creating the possibility for outright rigging.' That's the whole point. Last edited by Archaeon; 2013-10-19 at 06:42. |
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2013, anime saimoe tournament, saimoe, tournament |
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