(L+CR) Nagi no Asukara (Nagi-Asu: A Lull in the Sea)

[Triple_R]

However there is no racism here but bad blood from the past due the environment.

Well, "group prejudices" might be a better way to put it. It's about actual physical divisions over where they live as much as it's about anything else. It honestly reminds me a bit of Springfield vs. Shelbyville in The Simpsons.

[FlareKnight]

Seems like the sea village is just a matter of generations away from vanishing completely. This whole policy of "you may never return" is just going to help whittle away their population. It's a one way street. Even just a few people leaving the village every now and then will eventually wipe it out. People aren't coming from the land to the sea. No matter how much those that are angry and racist dislike the surface they are only helping in their own destruction. Banishing people who get into relationships isn't going to keep people from leaving, only ensure that they aren't ever coming back.

The village is almost a metaphor for Hikari himself. In his attempt to protect the things he cares about he's burning all his bridges and pushing everyone away. It's not shock that Manaka is falling for Tsumugu. A much more toned down personality that shows some interest without being overwhelming. While having prejudices he's not as bad as the older generation, though it could certainly get there if he doesn't grow out of it. Will just have to see if Hikari and the village can avoid total destruction since at the moment they are both doing a bang up job of losing everything.

Some fun moments though like Manaka trying to get re-cursed . She's just going to have to be honest about the whole fish leaving thing.

And Tsumugu is a good guy. Even going to the extent of putting something together for the sea-kids so they can be a bit more comfortable there.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What jumps out for me in the always-entertaining fan backlash this time around is the ridiculously overplayed hatred Hikari is getting. Yeah, he's annoying - news flash, 13 year-old boys often are annoying.

I don't recall any guys (or girls) in my middle school making a habit of screaming in people's faces.

The first thing I take issue with is the oft-stated notion that Hikari somehow "made Manaka the way she is". Well, not only do I call BS on that but I think it's a damn sexist way of thinking. Are girls so weak and deferential that a pushy and overprotective boy can turn one into a simpering crybaby? Manaka is how she is because of Manaka, not because of Hikari - sure, the way he acts bossy and seems to take it as his responsibility to watch over her can exacerbate the problem, and this has led (IMHO) to a kind of codependency that isn't healthy. But he didn't make Manaka the girl she is.

Truth is, I find Manaka to be more annoying that Hikari - but that's a matter of preference, they can both be a pill.

I don't think Manaka turned out this way just because of Hikari, but people are the product of their environment and she grew up in a world where guys can just grab a woman and haul her off to a priest for punishment because they don't like her choice in men. Hikari's behavior is part of that. So is Uroko's. Given Okada's love of feminist themes, I can't believe it's coincidence that Hikari's acting like a patriarchal jerk who's trying to force Manaka to behave the way he thinks she should.

More importantly, As RRR (I think) pointed out, unlike in many shows where teenagers act like jerks we actually have a little background as to why that is, especially in Hikari's case. And not only that, we actually see him face consequences when he acts like a jerk - his friends tell him off - and that's even more rare in anime. That's why we have character arcs, because characters can change and grow as they learn - especially adolescents - and in a two-cour series a lot can get done on that front.

Character arcs are wonderful, but there are limits to how bad a character can start as before the audience loses the ability to accept his redemption, and for a lot of people Hikari is at that line.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

I don't recall any guys (or girls) in my middle school making a habit of screaming in people's faces.

I wish I had gone to your middle school then

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by totoum

I wish I had gone to your middle school then

Me to, especially considering more often then not I was the one being bullied and screamed at.

[Haak]

To me Hikari and Manaka seem to be very close and almost like family. And family certainly scream at each other.

[orion]

Originally Posted by totoum

I wish I had gone to your middle school then

No one was screaming at my school either. That resulted in you getting thrown out of class.

Originally Posted by Haak

To me Hikari and Manaka seem to be very close and almost like family. And family certainly scream at each other.

At home, yes. Then that allows the recipient to scream back, run to parent and get you in trouble or do something in retaliation. They're in school. You can't do much there. Besides, it's not the place to have a family argument. There's a time and place for everything.

[Triple_R]

Well, since everybody else is sharing their school days stories...

Most of the male classmates I had throughout school were not like Hikari. But every grade I was in had at least one Hikari-like guy in it, and sometimes there were as many as 4 like him (the sizes of the classes I was in ranged from 20 to 30 students). He's not the norm, but he's not unrealistic either. There are a fair percentage of boys between 10 and 16 like him.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by orion

No one was screaming at my school either. That resulted in you getting thrown out of class.

In mine to,that's why the screaming happened in between classes or outside of class, don't remember the show having any conflicts during class,except during the introduction of the transfer students and I saw something similar happen at my school (kid really wasn't happy about attending my school and he made sure everyone knew)

edit: basically I share the same view as Triple_R

Also lived a scenario where a school integrated students from another school and their was rivalry between both sides (doubles as a Non Non Biyori-esque scenario in that despite the integration the class had 25 students combining 6th-7th and 8th grade )

[-Sho-]

Guys they are still kids , their love & youth , their stubborness , their acting are all natural.
Everyone(well maybe not everyone) on their youth has experienced this.

Also the cultural difference between sea & land people looks like our.

In the end , it's as if it was our world.


Anyway , my thoughts about this episode "She wants the D"

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, since everybody else is sharing their school days stories...

Most of the male classmates I had throughout school were not like Hikari. But every grade I was in had at least one Hikari-like guy in it, and sometimes there were as many as 4 like him (the sizes of the classes I was in ranged from 20 to 30 students). He's not the norm, but he's not unrealistic either. There are a fair percentage of boys between 10 and 16 like him.

Did people accept that behavior, or did they think, "Wow, that guy's a horrible jerk. Why doesn't somebody tell him to shut the f*** up?"

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Did people accept that behavior, or did they think, "Wow, that guy's a horrible jerk. Why doesn't somebody tell him to shut the f*** up?"

They probably thought he was an arsehole. Then again, anybody who's not already friends with Hikari (besides Kihara) probably thinks he's an arsehole too.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Did people accept that behavior, or did they think, "Wow, that guy's a horrible jerk. Why doesn't somebody tell him to shut the f*** up?"

They were usually considered the class delinquents, and their marks in school tended to reflect it. There was one I got into fights with a couple times because he took it to the point of being a bully, and with me being the other largest male in my class I felt obligated to stand up to him. Other than that, myself and most other male classmates would sometimes joke around with these "delinquents" a bit, and sometimes we'd try to get them to calm down, but we knew to be careful with these combustible guys. Female classmates would generally avoid them unless they felt like dating bad boys.

At some level, Hikari is just a delinquent that hopefully will reform (like some do in real life, and that I've also seen myself).

[Kirito]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

And Tsumugu is a good guy. Even going to the extent of putting something together for the sea-kids so they can be a bit more comfortable there.

That's what makes him a magical character. It's a good thing that his love for the sea makes him a welcoming and accepting person, especially in Manaka's case.

Dwarven Vow #134: Compassion benefits all man! This also applies to the people of the sea of course!

[Fruits Basket Fan]

This might be one of my favorite PA works anime since Canaan !

Originally Posted by Haak

To me Hikari and Manaka seem to be very close and almost like family. And family certainly scream at each other.

I thought so too until we saw the first episode with Hikari blushing toward Manaka and remarking how slender she is when hiding the curse on her knee......He clearly feels something for her even if she does not.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Enzo

What jumps out for me in the always-entertaining fan backlash this time around is the ridiculously overplayed hatred Hikari is getting. Yeah, he's annoying - news flash, 13 year-old boys often are annoying. The first thing I take issue with is the oft-stated notion that Hikari somehow "made Manaka the way she is". Well, not only do I call BS on that but I think it's a damn sexist way of thinking. Are girls so weak and deferential that a pushy and overprotective boy can turn one into a simpering crybaby? Manaka is how she is because of Manaka, not because of Hikari - sure, the way he acts bossy and seems to take it as his responsibility to watch over her can exacerbate the problem, and this has led (IMHO) to a kind of codependency that isn't healthy. But he didn't make Manaka the girl she is.

I don't have anything against Hikari (I think he's an interesting character and, at least to me, an endearing one), but I don't think this train of thought is inherently sexist. Being surrounded by domineering personalities that constantly steamroll you can make a person become passive and unsure over time; it's a very human response and of course applies to females just as it does for males.

Note that I'm not commenting on whether or not Hikari actually has spent his entire life screaming into Manaka's face thrice a day; just that suggesting a female character might become meek due to a male character isn't necessarily sexist. Guys can just as easily have the same impact on guys, girls can similarly damage boys, etc.

Originally Posted by Utsuro

Character arcs are wonderful, but there are limits to how bad a character can start as before the audience loses the ability to accept his redemption, and for a lot of people Hikari is at that line.

The 'Unacceptable' line must be placed awfully close to the 'Acceptable' one. >_> Hikari's a jerk sometimes, but his behavior is a few orders of magnitude away from being unforgiveable, I think. He's the kind of character that I could very strongly dislike if he never changes, but easily forgive if he does.

(edit: Hmm, reading back over this I think maybe this part could be seen as rude; maybe I was a little blunt, but I certainly didn't mean this badly. Although I'm fine with people being pissed at Hikari, the idea of him being beyond redemption is something I'm less able to understand, but then I'm the type that's easily won back over by good behavior.)

Originally Posted by Haak

To me Hikari and Manaka seem to be very close and almost like family. And family certainly scream at each other.

Unless they're a very rare thing, I don't think screaming matches should be considered a healthy and acceptable aspect of family dynamics.

[Haak]

Hikari gets aggressive but I don't really think there's any actual screaming. They just seem more like spats to me. Well it's not desirable but I think most siblings will have spats with each other especially at that age. Although I'm pretty certain I have an very dysfunctional family life so maybe I have some skewed standards...

Then again, I do also consider Hikari and Manaka's relationship to be slightly dysfunctional as well. I don't think it's acceptable either: I just think a lot of families are dysfunctional to an extent.

[340.29]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The village is almost a metaphor for Hikari himself. In his attempt to protect the things he cares about he's burning all his bridges and pushing everyone away. It's not shock that Manaka is falling for Tsumugu. A much more toned down personality that shows some interest without being overwhelming. While having prejudices he's not as bad as the older generation, though it could certainly get there if he doesn't grow out of it. Will just have to see if Hikari and the village can avoid total destruction since at the moment they are both doing a bang up job of losing everything.

Agreed. It really shows the importance of his character in the show. I honestly feel the show would be unbearably flat and 2-dimensional without him. At least it appears evident that he will, to some extent of the show to come, pay the consequences for his behaviour. I think that ought to quell some of the hatred people feel towards him.

As Kaname pointed out in the anime, it's highly unexpected that Manaka would be the first to take a step out. Taking the initiative defies her nature, which I like, because I dislike her nature. I just hope she's not trading in one form of codependency for another form of dependency. Her basic motive is very important to me, because her actions are the driving force of the show thus far. Which is why I desperately want her initiative to have meaning, especially because it seems all too likely she is just air-heading about. I found that Kaname-on-the-swing scene extremely powerful. It really indicates the distance the four of them are going to face (Kaname taking a step forward whilst Chisaki remains).

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

I don't recall any guys (or girls) in my middle school making a habit of screaming in people's faces

Probably not but most of us aren't like Manaka either. The characters are after all anime characters and a bit exaggerated to fit their personality type.


Also while I wouldn't say Manaka is worse than Hikari, I also agree she is flawed and needs to grow. In a sense while Hikari has to learn to let Manaka be independent, Manaka has to learn this independence.

[Kanon]

There are indeed kids like Hikari in real life and they are thankfully part of the minority. I don't see how that's relevant, however. Realistic or not, Hikari is still an unlikable character. It doesn't matter one bit that there are people like him in real life - I don't like them, I don't like him. I have no doubt he's going to grow over the course of the story and he might even become my favorite character by the end of it (it's happened before), but that doesn't mean I have to like him as he is now.