2012-09-12, 17:16 | Link #23401 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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2012-09-12, 17:17 | Link #23402 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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In fact, I fear the problem of the opposite: Any education without a religious or ethical basis is bound to be a problem, where it is a breeding ground for intolerant anti-religious sentiments which in itself is basically the most dangerous of them all. |
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2012-09-12, 17:26 | Link #23403 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
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As for the second, many countries has an educational system not influenced by religions and so far it seems they hold well ( at least I never had the pulsion to attack a christian, jew, muslim, boudhist or anything). But of course, if the educational system doesn't have ethical basis, or moral lesson, earlier or later, it will crumble, but you can have those two without religion hopefully. Religions don't have the monopole of "right" and "wrong". |
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2012-09-12, 17:29 | Link #23404 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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It depends on how you view ethics. In a sense they are forms of religion, in the sense that they teach one how to behave in a certain situation. Human spirituality is interconnected to morality, with religions having a more structured spiritual basis and ethic having more of a moral basis without the accompanying structure related to gods or the afterlife.
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2012-09-12, 17:33 | Link #23405 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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There was a time that the Western world was not all that different from the Islamic world of today. Perhaps we expect too much to change too quickly over there in a fast paced world when it took our civilizations centuries to get over practical rule by the Church, either with or over the kings and emperors of Europe. Even now there are remains of the vocal Christians that would rather rule by the Bible than by the laws and governments of today.
The Islamic countries and empires use to be ahead of the Europeans when the Europeans were more dominated by the Church than by the governements. But those days have past several hundred years ago. It is entirely possible the European managed to crack the old Muslim states and "blow them back into an earlier age" via Imperialsim and the fall of basically all the old Muslim states by the end of the First World War. While European control over them was not all that long (historically speaking) it seems to have been enough to break them into whatever they have become today. The Islamic counties of today seem like they are not as well off, culturally, as they were in their prime. Maybe the religious sects have too much power or hold on the people and governments verses back in the day? Sure some countries have taken advantage of Western culture and uplifted so to speak, but others have regressed even more it would seem. It doesn't help that Islam and Arab are almost interchangable in today's political climate. Some Islamic counties outside the Middle East seem to be doing fine in controlling their more religious half. But the Arabs and Persians seem to be having issues (the Turks to a much lesser extent). It doesn't help that one of the sterotypes for Arabs (and Jews for that matter) is that they like to argue or haggle on everything. Sometimes it isn't a fight they want, just they seem programmed to argue over stuff. It is a stereotype. However, one that, at least on the surface, makes sense.
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2012-09-12, 17:45 | Link #23406 | |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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By claiming that you need something to fear (religion) in order not to do evil is casting all humans as fundamentally evil and I do not believe that. PS: I'm sure I've been pointed to a few studies that tried to prove that morals dependent on religions but I can't recall where sadly.
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2012-09-12, 17:59 | Link #23407 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Religions evolve out of inherent moral compasses common to socially cooperative species. And any moral system that discards knowledge in favor of doctrine has probably been hijacked by outliers - you can call them sociopaths, power-mongers, whatever, but power/control has become more important than truth.
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2012-09-12, 18:24 | Link #23408 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Obama On Romney’s Libya Response: ‘Shoot First And Aim Later’
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...st-aim?ref=fpa Really appropriate to the situation
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2012-09-12, 18:28 | Link #23409 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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@ Dextro: First I believe you're misunderstanding quite a few things about my statement, starting from the thought that you need something to fear in a religion (Shinto certainly is not a religion of fearing things). Furthermore, I believe it to be baloney the basic thought that religion is a problem, since I consider such thoughts to be the very essence of the bigoted "liberal" interpretation of the workings of the world. Any sort of thought that concludes one thing is an evil for the sake of being something is at the core the very intolerance that causes religious radical to do the crimes that happened.
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2012-09-12, 19:05 | Link #23410 | |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
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Someone has to hunt down this "Sam Bacile" character, cuff this bastard for provocation and terrorism.
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2012-09-12, 19:44 | Link #23413 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Origins of Provocative Video Are Shrouded
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...st-aim?ref=fpa ‘It Makes Me Sick’: Actress in Muhammed Movie Says She Was Deceived, Had No Idea It Was About Islam http://gawker.com/5942748/it-makes-m...as-about-islam Quote:
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2012-09-12, 19:45 | Link #23414 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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The families of those that died that day as well as the survivors and many others have fought tiredlessly for 23 years to make wednesday's announcement happen and have been vindicated in their efforts. Those that made light of this and tried to antagonise Liverpool fans over it have to look at themselves over this and realise what they did was utterly wrong. More importantly, those involved in the cover up in the police & ambulance services as well as in the media and beyond must be brought to justice over this. They are the true criminals in this, noone else. Hopefully then, the families of the dead will be finally allowed to grieve in peace. |
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2012-09-12, 19:46 | Link #23415 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 40
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I thought that having worldwide information traveling so fast nowadays would help more people seeing what's good and what's bad in other societies so the Middle-East would know where to go and how to do it, but it still isn't enough. Perhaps the Arab world would need of their own version of Gandhi, Martin Luther King, John Paul II or anyone with more than enough charisma to propose something new with respect of others as well. I'm only surprised there was not such character emerging from that region yet. |
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2012-09-12, 20:03 | Link #23416 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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This whole incident gets a lot shadier. It's entirely possible that this film is an elaborate piece of "agitprop", a false flag tailor made to inflame muslims. Consider this:
‘It Makes Me Sick’: Actress in Muhammed Movie Says She Was Deceived, Had No Idea It Was About Islam Quote:
Two scenarios seem plausible to me: 1. It was designed by american Christian Fundamentalists/radical anti-Arab Copts to stir up trouble in the middle east and spread negative perceptions of the region in the US, by fuelling attacks on Americans by the far right in the Middle East. Evidence in favour: The film was first publicised by Terry Jones (of Koran burning fame) and on an anti-islamic copt blog. 2. It was designed by Islamist Arabs to stir up negative sentiment against the US(and Israel) in Egypt and Libya, in a region that is currently better disposed towards the US due to it's support of the Arab Spring. Evidence in favour: The director seemed to speak Arabic, and it works better in Arabic then in English. The Sam Bacile profile on Youtube has commented on Arabic videos. Something else to consider is that the film (and Sam Bacile himself) seems to stress it's Jewish origins. There's a prominent section with a "good jewish woman" being killed and raped by Mohammed, and of course Sam Bacile himself has stressed that he's Israeli, and was funded to the tune of $5 million by "100 wealthy jewish donors". I'm not usually one to go in for Conspiracy theories, but this seems a lot like a conspiracy to me! It's a "false flag operation", intended to create anti-American violence in the middle east. They succeeded in doing so, but the real question is, what's the motive? Whose behind this? How is it that on the one hand you have a well known radical Christian (Jones), and on the other Jihadists. The timing on September 11 (and during the US election cycle) also seems damn convenient as well. It's entirely possible that the militants who stormed the compound were in on the whole thing. |
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2012-09-12, 20:08 | Link #23417 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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I hate to say it, but someone like that from the Arab world would most likely be murdered before they gained any real traction. : -\ Once they started gaining some sort of traction, that's it, they're finished. Extremists would make sure to shut him up, and by that, that means taking his life.
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2012-09-12, 20:19 | Link #23418 | ||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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PS. Calling a Persian or a Turk a Arab and you will lucky to just get a punch in the face.
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2012-09-12, 20:46 | Link #23419 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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2012-09-12, 20:49 | Link #23420 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 40
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I thought MLK fought against racism and segregation seen WITHIN his own country. Anyway, that kind of pacifist might pay the price with his life, but it's part of how they achieve immortality if the people follow the ideals. Someone someday will have to come up, raise the right questions and rally the people with a pacific approach. It happened before, it happened in many countries and it has to happen again Re-PS.: I always separated the Turks from the rest of the Middle East from that knowing how proud they stand now with their more modern society compared to a number of countries in the area. It's funny when you consider the Turks had Persia, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Northern Africa and the entire Arabian peninsula, but then not many of them folllowed progress. Unfortunately for the Persians (mainly Iranians), they seem to enjoy getting mixed up with all the stuff involving Arabs these days. Anyway, most of the problems do happen in the Arab world; so, I'm not quite off the map here. |
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