(L) Owari no Seraph

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Objection denied.
Phonepole's sister clearly showed that the virus is still out there. And as you are still going by 'it is a virus' it would still be contagious.
Furthermore, those children would grew up to be older than 12 years eventually, hence their protection would wear off.
Thus the Virus very well had the potential to eradicate mankind, except you were expecting the Vampires to breed children out of 12 year olds.

Hold it!

TL;DR…

using Maya's deus ex powers

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Which is why my client, Krul Tepes, should be declared Not Guilty.

[zeando]

an other thing to think about:
the monsters showed to be hunting for humans, but are not controlled by vampires, so what are they?

so far it's only known that they appeared right after the virus/curse/whatever apocalypse, so they may be related directly or indirectly to it

[CptChaos]

I was jokingly thinking how funny it would be if Krul was voiced by Yuuki Aoi, and when it really happened, I couldn't hold it anymore. This is actually the third loli vampire queen she voices after Mina Tepes and Kirishiki Sunako.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
I'm calling it a virus only because most characters in the anime do refer to it as a virus.
Also nothing proves that it's not a "cursed virus" or a curse that shows itself in the form of a virus. In fact, it were just a curse, Colonel Ichinose (which is also a survivor) as well as the doctor would stop referring to it as a "virus" in the first place. Since by the most basic logic, you need to know a calamity's nature before you can defend against it. Also, ...

Its a curse- its as simple as that.
Curses don't randomly spread from one person to another.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
We have a short flashback evidence of his sister being ill when they were younger in this episode. It is likely that she got infected a long time ago but for some reason couldn't be cured. The reason, we don't know yet. But do know for sure that she didn't get it recently (i.e : it's not an evidence that the virus really is still out there).

If it is a Virus, the time she got infected with it is irrelevant to the case.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Also, we have no way of knowing whether the virus propagate from people to people or through some other unknown way. But at the very least, as the start of the episode suggested, adults are more than safe (from the virus) outside of the Army's protection.

That is what a virus does.
The Likelyhood of 75 or more percent of the entire human race getting infected with the same virus at the same moment is extremely slim.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it! Of course we know it is against their law.
I was speaking hypothetically of the virus not being related to the seraph. Because if it is, then, my client is clearly innocent as she only get a hold of the Seraphs after the incident 8 years ago.

And yet, your client claimed to have taken them in as a form of protection.
Furthermore, one of her own subjects, believing her lies that the calamity was caused by humans, actually referred to the 'forbidden enchantment', which in terms refers to the seraph's curse as the reason for the calamity having broken out in the first place.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
I'll use 3 evidences from episode 1 to defend my client.
Evidence No.1 : Akane called their orphanage "Hyakuya orphanage".
Evidence No.2 : Hyakuya became the family name of every child in Yu's family.
Evidence No.3 : the main character's personality. (Take that!)
The main character would have never accepted to be called by the name "Hyakuya" knowing it is the name of a vampire organization (which he hates with a burning passion).

Evidence you say? How is this evidence?
The victim's name is is irrelevant.
Furthermore, if it was indeed a laboratory, no matter which origin, the victim didn't know about it being a laboratory in the first place, hence chances of his knowledge about his owners are non existant.
Furthermore, it was the name of his beloved family, there is no way he'd change it.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Moreover, if my client really did own the orphanage, that means she must have had humans to back her up (proven with the "director of the orphanage" being human). No humans would have accepted to work with vampires on such dangerous experiences, especially with the risk of killing only the humans.
Above all, assuming she owns such an orphanage above ground is also assuming vampires have a strong control over human activities despite being hidden underground. Strong enough for them to not be found out when they pay their taxes.

Who says vampires ever payed taxes in the first place?
in fact aren't they the ones taxing right now?

Moreover, not even the test subjects knew they were test subject, so can you proof that the director and other workers knew it was a laboratory?

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
It is also known in the realm of the occult that cleansing a curse and protecting yourself from being cursed is sometimes as specific as curing an illness.
Yet the surviving humans also knew how to prevent a large number of them from being killed from a near instant death virus/curse.
Which is really suspicious considering how hard curing a single girl seems to be.

Which can simply be explained by them having never been cursed in the first place.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection! We have two evidences that contradicts with these statement.

no it doesn't.
*reprimentment*

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Evidence no.4 : the cursed weapons. (take that!)
This is a definite proof that humans also have the technology to deal with curses and similar arts. If they have the ability to experiment on demons, it is not inconceivable that they also have the ability to experiment on Seraphs.

It is demonic weapons, not cursed weapons. Plus, it was stated several times that they are needed in order to fight vampires. As such they were a necessity that might have very well be gained post- apocalyptic.
And even if, they already were fighting vampires back then already, and thus have had the demonic weapons already, it still doesn't proof that they were involved in the curse.
Especially considering how your client is a supernatural semi-immortal being to begin with, and thus also has had the meanings to dabble in dark margic for a far longer than than humans have had.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Evidence no.5 : the vampire organisation's intel.
The vampire organisation seems to have a very reliable intel as they are capable of :
-monitoring the survivor's action as well as identify the name of their organisation "JIDA" ;
-determining Yu's whereabouts even though he's practically a needle in a haystack, now.
The possibility is high that the quality of her intelligence organs is what allowed her to react so quickly.

knowing the precisse workings of the curse and what counter measures to take only hours after a something they themself refer to as a virus has nothing to do with military intelligence.
She knew about it too fast at the given time to have not been involved in one way or another.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Your honour, evidences do in fact prove that vampires have the ability to monitor the actions of the humans above ground. The quality of her intel can back up the quickness of her decisions and how she could get informations about humans experimenting on Seraphs.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

We also could prove that humans do indeed :
-have the technology and knowledge to manipulate powerful curses ;
-had the ability to prevent a large number of them from dying despite having a hard time curing a single girl. Which is a clear sign that they had prepared defensive measures beforehand ;
-we also have the case of the name 'Hyakuya' (maybe that of an organization). A name which is related to at least a laboratory and an orphanage who had at least two seraphs in them.
Everything is pointing that they are the true culprit.[/TLDR]

Which is why my client, Krul Tepes, should be declared Not Guilty.

So what?
There is no proof every single human was effected by the curse to begin with, nor is have you proven that said laboratory doesn't belong to your client.

Moreover, the majority of people shown were too young to have not had survived in the first place.
8 years have passed since the cataclysm, hence the oldest oone know being in the MC's school would have been 11 years at best back then and thus not affected by the curse's effects.
The Military thus had at least 1 year time to find a solution and ways to protect themself. in fact they had EIGHT years time.


Now lets get those stakes and the holy water.

[Draco Spirit]

Originally Posted by zeando

an other thing to think about:
the monsters showed to be hunting for humans, but are not controlled by vampires, so what are they?

so far it's only known that they appeared right after the virus/curse/whatever apocalypse, so they may be related directly or indirectly to it

I'm going with the "they use to be people" option. This whole virus story stinks of a cover up, the question is whom and why.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Haigi

When she was conversing with Felid I felt that Krul has a very nice voice for her character. A little childish yet a hint of hidden maturity and bits of arrogant sarcasm. Liking her so far~

Considering that she should be a lot older than she looks then I say her voice fits too.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Its a curse- its as simple as that.
Curses don't randomly spread from one person to another.

Objection!

TL;DR…

 

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[PreSage]

So it looks like the virus that appeared and wiped out most of the human population was caused by the Military group. I was right to be suspicious of them. When Guren first said about world domination, it immediately rang a warning bell in my head.

Although what that 3rd progenitor loli vampire claims about bringing stability back to the world may sound righteous compared to the Military group but I'm still suspicious of the vampires as well, considering how they treat humans. The vampires consider humans as their "live stock" and the Military uses human to gain power and domination over the world. Both fractions function similarly and neither can truly be trusted but which one is the lesser evil of the two? It will be interesting to see how the 2 friends/family will come out in the end but they probably can never walk the same path together ever again though. ):

Edit: I am leaning towards the virus being unleashed by the Military. In order for the military to dominate over the world, they need to defeat the vampires. I'm guessing they probably stole some secret dark magic from the vampires (that has something to do with Seraphs) but made a mistake that caused the release of the virus which killed most of humanity. That, or they intentionally released the virus to kill most of humanity as a means of robbing the vampires most of their food supply. But the question remains is what are the vampires doing with this power and the Seraphs? Perhaps they are trying to find a way to dominate over humans as well. Also, I not quite clear on what Seraphs are in the context of this series, and how both the Military and the vampires know that Yu and Mika are Seraphs...or all children considered as Seraphs?

There are there are those monsters that appear after the virus pandemic. They could be humans that somehow survived the infection but get transformed into those creatures.

[BWTraveller]

The best I've been able to figure the Virus is supposed to have been released by humanity by accident, possibly as a result of their experimenting on the Seraphim. Still, I will admit that the current knowledge is incomplete and it could just be that the higher-ups we know have been led to believe that Hyakuya Lab created it by accident.

In all truth, it sounds like the "virus" thing really isn't a virus, and its definition as a curse is only valid if you use the broadest definitions possible. Instead, it could be that the Seraphim existed as a source of the literal "End" or Judgment. Perhaps here, the End is supposed to start with all those whose virtue is clearly established being Taken: your body remains, but your soul goes where it's meant to go. Some people remain due to some ambiguity in their virtue, and children remain because they're not old enough to be judged. Perhaps the monsters appear shortly afterward to begin cleanup and use traumatic situations to force people to make decisions that would make their virtue clear. If this is the case, discussions suggest Mika and Yuuichirou are either the unwitting embodiments of the seraphim that would trigger the end, or part of a long line of embodiments allowing the end to come any time, but the experiments attempting to understand it caused a partial activation, destroying/cleansing most people but leaving quite a few behind as well as vampires, but still summoning at least some of the "cleanup crew". The rest of the Hyakuya "family" were probably potentials or candidates; after all, it'd be hard for a scientific organization to figure out with absolute certainty who the "seraphim" were, so they'd probably gather every child that looked like he/she might be one of them. It's really rather impressive they were able to narrow it down as far as they did.

An additional note, if the pair really are embodiments (singular or generational) of some celestial judges, it seems like Yuu and Mika were meant to serve opposing purposes. One was meant to see the sins and the reasons people should be destroyed/punished, while the other saw the good in them and all the reasons they should be allowed to live. This wouldn't be the first time I'd seen a pair of Destroyers where one was meant to find all the reasons to destroy and the other reasons not to. Of course, at the same time, if only one of the two was triggered, the effect on the planet may have been far different from what it should have been. Additionally, the reason the effect didn't extend to vampires may be because Yuu and/or Mika didn't even know they existed. Humanity may have all but perished due to the Judge's view of humanity as a species at the moment of activation, but since he had no knowledge of Vampires he couldn't judge them; with their presence now clearly known and the obvious antagonism of the prime suspect toward them, it makes good sense that the vampires would be very worried about the idea of a second activation.

[Draco Spirit]

Best theory yet BWTraveller

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PreSage

So it looks like the virus that appeared and wiped out most of the human population was caused by the Military group. I was right to be suspicious of them. When Guren first said about world domination, it immediately rang a warning bell in my head.

Although what that 3rd progenitor loli vampire claims about bringing stability back to the world may sound righteous compared to the Military group but I'm still suspicious of the vampires as well, considering how they treat humans. The vampires consider humans as their "live stock" and the Military uses human to gain power and domination over the world. Both fractions function similarly and neither can truly be trusted but which one is the lesser evil of the two? It will be interesting to see how the 2 friends/family will come out in the end but they probably can never walk the same path together ever again though. ):

Edit: I am leaning towards the virus being unleashed by the Military. In order for the military to dominate over the world, they need to defeat the vampires. I'm guessing they probably stole some secret dark magic from the vampires (that has something to do with Seraphs) but made a mistake that caused the release of the virus which killed most of humanity. That, or they intentionally released the virus to kill most of humanity as a means of robbing the vampires most of their food supply. But the question remains is what are the vampires doing with this power and the Seraphs? Perhaps they are trying to find a way to dominate over humans as well. Also, I not quite clear on what Seraphs are in the context of this series, and how both the Military and the vampires know that Yu and Mika are Seraphs...or all children considered as Seraphs?

There are there are those monsters that appear after the virus pandemic. They could be humans that somehow survived the infection but get transformed into those creatures.

Tbh I wouldn't trust anything the vampires or Krul say.
Thee vampires are the ones profiting from it most.
Releasing the Virus in order to gain world domination only makes sense if you don't infect your own population with it too, especially considering how you don't know how many of the other coountries populace survies.

That being said its actually proofable that it is a curse rather than a virus:

Images

Curse mark

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Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Some curses do depending on where you look at and how said curse work. In the case of a contemporary fiction, it may go as however the author feel like. See Ju-on for example, a textbook case of a curse that spreads from people to people in fictional japanese works.

If it spreads from people to people, it contradicts your later statement that it has already died down

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
It is relevant to counter an argument that was brought up before which is "she lied to avoid some opposition". If she got infected yesterday, that would imply other people might as well. If she got infected 8 years ago, it means other people out there are likely safe now.
i.e : the plague dies down after a certain time
Which leads to the fact that, if hypothetically the virus wasn't related to the seraph, it guarantees the survival of the kids. Which means that my client would have had no reason to fear people using "she killed our food source" as an argument to reverse her.

No it is irrelevant, as Phonepole's sister definitely doesn't look like she is 21, thus she would have been immune to the virus at the given time;
Additionally, if she had been older than 13 back then she would have already died from it. Notably jsut as fast as everyone else.

Just like the children from the orphanage since they were brought underground for safety of not getting infected. That is what Krul claims that is.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
It's clearly a magical virus, not a normal virus. This kind statement is invalid.

No it isn't. Except you want to tell us that the planet is actually flat, then they could have launched the spell from space and reached everyone at the same time.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
This proves nothing. As I said, she only got the kids after humanity was destroyed. Even if she's playing with the Seraphs and might cause another plague right now, this statement doesn't prove she did it 8 years ago.

You want to play a Phoenix Wright game with me here - thus guilty until proven innocent.
On a more serious note though, I already referred to the shot time amount she needed to get all information she needed to keep the children safe - including that they have yet to be infected and that the virus wasn't just dormant.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Here we are basing our arguments by assuming that the vampire city is the "Hyakuya laboratory" as you suggested, not the opposite (it being human laboratory)
Colonel Ichinose spilled the words "Hyakuya laboratory" on his face. If we assume that "Hyakuya laboratories" do refer to the vampire city like you said then he should have caught on. Which obviously isn't the case.
Also, in this particular case "Hyakuya" wouldn't represent a family name but a "group of cattle's name" which he should despise.

Not really no.
Or do you want to say that a lab rat knows what their laboratory is being called?
In either case its the name his beeloved family called itself - no way he is going to change it.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
Here we are assuming that my client owned the Hyakuya orphanage and the Hyakuya laboratory(-ies). If she does then she'd have to pay taxes and explain all of their funding sources to the IRS.

Actually an orphanage wouldn't pay taxes, and even if there is still the posisbility of a straw man being used. - Last but not least it should also be noted that even if she did pay taxes it wouldn't mean that she was suspected to be a vampire.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
The test subjects were all very young, there is many possibilities. They either started being experimented at such a young age they can't understand what is happening to them, or easily drugged to forget those experiments, or the experiment started before they were even born (started on their parents, then shifted to them after the latter died or something)

Actually they were even allowed to leave the orphanage and play outside/walk around town.
That is at least the situation we found them in running around the town and only then going back 'home'.
One does not simply let their lab rats run free.

On this note: Krul tried to make sure none of them escaped her underground facility, and that she failed doesn't really matter either. - thus the one having used them as lab rats is her.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Either way, the opposite is the hardest to prove. Why would a vampire organization that usually operates underground waste their time and resources creating an orphanage above ground instead of just kidnapping the kids and experiment on them underground?

As if no one would look for them.
Furthermore, who said they were actually all living underground from the beginning.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Colonel Ichinose, referred to them as "cursed gear" this very episode (4) during his conversation with student Kimizuki.

Falsa probatio non nocet - we have already been shown that they are actually containing demons.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
If them being able to do it is not a proof they did it (which is right), then the same goes for my client. Even if vampires have occult abilities, it doesn't automatically proves that they're the one who did it especially if the humans can also play with these kind of curses.

Just that your 'client' is immune to it while her victims are not.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
There is no evidence backing up this statement. Humans may have a short lifespan but they transmit their achievements and knowledges to their descendants, making it a continuous work. Thus we should not look at only their nature but also at their history.
Legends and myths about humans playing with black/dark magic goes far into the past, even before the rise of Christianity (which is far older than the origin of vampires in myths and legends). As my client's name is "Krul Tepes", we assume she is related to Vlad Tepes (which was apparently born in 1431). Both she and Vlad weren't born yet and human already played with sorcery.

We can go as far back as Kain and Abel when it comes to vampire stories if you really want to.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
The only counter measure they took is bringing the survivors (the kids) with them. Unlike for the humans she didn't need to develop cures or protections or something.

Good you admit that she didn't need any means of protecting herself.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Also, when things like "prophecies" are plot points, it is not far fetched to assume that similar prophecies is what made the vampires to let them know what kind of phenomenon would happen if someone messed with the Seraphs. Which seems to be the case as "Seraph = you're doomed" seems to be a common knowledge among vampires to the point it is forbidden to touch them.

Considering how she knew the precise effects and precisly when to come where that would be the most accurate prophesy ever heard of.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

And finally, there is no proof that she acted on her own. The possibility also exists that she wasn't acting on her own, but under the order of that Progenitor Council during that time. Assuming "Seraph = you're doomed" is really a common knowledge among vampires decision taking in those kind of situation shouldn't take long.

Considering her nearly killing a council member over it there is.
Considering how the council has no idea she experimented back then already there also is.

And last but not least, she is their queen she has no reason to listen to them except she would have to fear opposition for what she has done.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

And again, the burden of proof is on you. My client can back her actions up with just the knowledge of legends and rules that are well known in vampire societies.
Humans, however, have no excuse for their "miraculously not infected"/"survivors exist" achievements. The only concrete explanation is that humans played with the Seraphs while at the same time developing cures and vaccines in case a dangerous virus will really fall on them (which is what happened).

Again, you want to play a Phoenix Wright game here - the burden of proof thus lies with the defense.

Oh and on human survival... More later.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
I already proved my client can't possibly own it, unless she's a really really bad manager. "Working on this kind of experiment above ground is literally stupid for underground vampires, when they could just kidnap the kids and work on them while still being underground."

No you didn't proof anything, and I already replied to it above.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Also, it's already been stated that the virus should kill every human that are above a certain age. It has been stated to have covered the entire planet and shown to be extremely effective at killing humans quickly. It is even capable of infecting ones inside planes that are 10km above ground.
But there adult survivors, and it was never explained how they survived. The burden of proof is on you. How did they avoid being infected?

Yes it should kill every human, and it didn't. Glad we agree on that one.
Also I hate to repeat myself but no the burden of proof isn't on me.

Nevertheless, I will provide it: Their survival was coincidence.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
How? How do they avoid being cursed in the first place. The curse covers the entire planet and can kill in an instant.

You really want to go with 'the military only survived despite their age because they knew how to protect themselves?' - fine be my guest. *Von Karma grin*

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Also, it's already been stated that the virus should kill every human that are above a certain age. It has been stated to have covered the entire planet and shown to be extremely effective at killing humans quickly. It is even capable of infecting ones inside planes that are 10km above ground.
But there adult survivors, and it was never explained how they survived. The burden of proof is on you. How did they avoid being infected?

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
By "protecting them", we are talking about preventing themselves from being killed by the virus. Which is as much time as it takes for a plane to crash.
And if we were to assume that only 11-year-old people actually survived and then the virus stopped propagating itself by the time they got older, we still face many contradictions.
They had to maintain these facilities in good state, use over complicated devices here and there (including medical equipments) and teaching maths. Those are all professions that need a certain level of formation (which requires the presence of adults.

Well you can't say you were not warned about this line of argumentation...

*Von Karma snip*


Just a thing... How did all the civilian communities, such as the one saved by the vampires survive then?
There were adults with children, and if they had known how to protect themselves they wouldn't have had problems with that monster either.
No moreover, they would have been protected by the military to begin with and would not be in need of vampires saving them since all of them would have been selected personell to maintain facilities as you claim above and thus be under military protection, which has been clearly shown they were not.

Thus your argument that the curse engulfed the entire world at the same time and that there was no other way of survival than knowing magic is not just invalid but entirely inaccurate.

Also including ones own population isn't very smart if you want to go for world domination.

But oh wait... The vampires are immune to the virus no matter what age they are? How very convenient and coincidental.

Oh and please don't try to argue your way out of it, the only way to do that is claiming the adults there were not older than 13 when their children were born.

Thus it has been established that coincidental survival is not only possible but also plausible.
And considering how their highest ranked officer is a Colonel and not a General, as well as that the military seems to be quite diminished too them being here can be put simply on coincidence or wearing ABC Gear the moment they got wind from the plague which is btw a standard military procedure.

[chaos_animagic]

so... best friend gonna end up killing each other

and the Vampire Queen is a Loli...

What a TWIST, lol... or not, pretty sure everyone saw i coming.

___ ___ ___ ___ ___

other note... man you guys got some super long discussion about the Virus...

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

... the Vampire Queen is a Loli...

When is she ever NOT?? That seems to be almost an absolute rule in Japanese vampire lore: the highest-ranking female vampire can never look a day over 14.

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

When is she ever NOT?? That seems to be almost an absolute rule in Japanese vampire lore: the highest-ranking female vampire can never look a day over 14.

Yeah. And the funny thing is: after years since her first appearance she looks exactly the same.

As for Mika, who was turned into a vampire when he was dying at 12 years old, grew up and now looks a normal teen the same age than Yu who is still a human!

Maybe there's another rule stating just vampire boys can grow up to become bishonen?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PGilis

Yeah. And the funny thing is: after years since her first appearance she looks exactly the same.

As for Mika, who was turned into a vampire when he was dying at 12 years old, grew up and now looks a normal teen the same age than Yu who is still a human!

Maybe there's another rule stating just vampire boys can grow up to become bishonen?

Its the same old story as in every vampire anime - the queen has a seond form and deliberately chooses this one so people underestimate her or something silly like that.

[chaos_animagic]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Its the same old story as in every vampire anime - the queen has a seond form and deliberately chooses this one so people underestimate her or something silly like that.

Loli vampires = best vampires

Shota vampires... no one likes them, needs to be hawt bishounens.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

Loli vampires = best vampires

Shota vampires... no one likes them, needs to be hawt bishounens.

Yah male vampires need to b just badass evil, as for females, adult looking ones; and by I mean that they shouldn't look like childs when being 100 years old.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

If it spreads from people to people, it contradicts your later statement that it has already died down

Objection!
As seen in the evidence above, I never said this virus/curse do propagate from people to people. I clearly just nitpicked his misinformation by saying some curses can, which doesn't mean in anyway all curses (nor this specific curses) do. I see no contradiction here.

TL;DR…

Von karma's bullet

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[Chosen_Hero]

I will laugh my ass off if those discussing the virus are all wrong.

[AC-Phoenix]

Got to do this fast now... There are abyssals that are waiting to get sunk.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
As seen in the evidence above, I never said this virus/curse do propagate from people to people. I clearly just nitpicked his misinformation by saying some curses can, which doesn't mean in anyway all curses (nor this specific curses) do. I see no contradiction here.

Considering how the virus was instant kill for everyone it does.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
It is relevant for the simple reason that she was infected by that virus at that time (flashback), unless proven otherwise.
Also, we do not know her age nor her circumstances. Kimizuki or her sister might be super old for all we know (doesn't look like 21 isn't an argument, considering how looks is what's really irrelevant in nowadays' anime), or she might have received an organ from a donator, then got infected because that organ was from a guy that's over 13.

Lets not put in conjecture here. All de-facto adults are shown as adults in this series, and even if she was 21 now she would still have been 13 back then and thus immune.
The logical conclusion is that she contracted it later.
Also no one would bother giving someone an infected organ.

Also as most other people died pretty much instantly, you can easily conclude that it is still around, especially since she is in that vegetive state for a while now.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
When did my client say this?

Its the narrative information given by herself as well as the children.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
Who said magical viruses behave like normal viruses? 'Viruses in fictions that infect a whole planet really quick isn't so rare either. Even DC did this.

Even if, it was still just quick and not at the same time.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
If we really do go by PW standards the one being judged shouldn't be my client but the humans. As per the explicit narrative, they are the supposed culprit.

Also, it was already mentioned that the virus do not infect children. And there was no mention of the virus being dormant inside children anywhere.

Who is to be charged is still the prosecutor's decision. The defense may refrain from trying to take over the prosecutions work or it will be repremanded :P

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
If guys that are above ground that never went inside can catch on the name of an underground city, how can those children who stayed in there for 4 years not catch on that (especially when they acquired a authentic map of said city?).
If it's the name of an organisation belonging to vampires who killed his beloved family, why wouldn't he change it?

Yeah its not like they were prisoners or something.. oh wait a moment they were.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hyakuya isn't purely composed of orphanages, they are supposed to have laboratories too. Also this is not Mauritius, it's Japan.
I mentioned tax because paying tax means you're legal/in the formal sector, which in turn means that at some point you may provide explanation to were your money come from (again, unless you're in Mauritius or have some friends working with the higher ups). If you can't provide convincing explanation, you're gonna get some problem with the higher ups, and in this series it seems like there's many guys dwelling in occult stuff among the higher ups.
i.e : a vampire organization having legal stuffs above ground is literally screaming "look at me guys!".

What about it?
Can you proof the government even knew about those laboratories? I doubt that.
And since you already mentioned DC. I highly doubt the Batcave has been taxed yet.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Your post is full of incoherence. If the kids being allowed to go outside is a proof that they aren't the orphanage's lab rats my client should be cleared for all her "experimenting on children" accusations. Since just by walking anywhere inside the vampire city they risk being killed by the first vampire getting pissed a them.

No my post is fine as I was answerting to yours.
Also thank you for finally admitting that the orphanage couldn't be the lab, thus the the only thing left the colonel could have referred to is the underground vampire city.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
If people would look for them when they are underground, do you think it's a better idea to create orphanage and laboratories above, in a place where everyone is looking for them?
And if they weren't living underground from the beginning, why are they still there when 90% of the humanity has been wiped out? Shouldn't they come back above ground now?
And how many centuries does it even take to build all those damn cities underground according to you? You think they could have done that 10 years before the start of the story?
(Not even bringing up the fact that they're vampires, and vampires hate the sun.)

According to your, btw unproven , argument vampires hate sun and wouldn't come out until late in the night. Which they btw have to as they are protecting the civilian communities.
Moreover they have to be there during the day too.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
This argument here is a typical case of fallacy of the alternative disjunct.
Demons and curses aren't mutually exclusive. If they say it's cursed gear, which was said after it was shown having demons in there, then it is cursed until explicitly proven to not be related to curses at all.

Which still leaves you with no evidence of when they have obtained it. Either way its demonic and not cursed. Falsa probatio non nocet.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
This is a case of deductive fallacy. If being immune to the virus makes you a culpirt all young children should be labelled as culprit too.
Also, just like you suggested before, since many adult humans aren't infected they might have found a way to make themselves immune. Don't that also make them culprits under this logic?

Just that vampires are immune to it by default and the only one that really gained something from it.
Furthermore, they now had a food ressource that could not fight them.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Kain didn't drink Abel's blood no matter what people say about him being whatever vampire's ancestor.

*sigh*
No, for killing his brother he was turned into a vampire and sent of to nod.

This claim is as much proofable as the bible itself btw. Point is whe were talking about vampire stories which are fictional to begin with.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Gotcha!
Which means you admit humans had do, yet they still survived a near instant kill virus out of nowhere.

No, I said that Krul didn't need to protect herself or her vampire population which does not equal that humans have to protect themselves to survive.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Bible is one of the most popular written story in the world. And they have some of the most accurate prophecies in history. Including a certain Person who predicted he will be crucified and resurrected on the third day. Which is far more accurate than this.

Yes, and there are loads of scientific explainations for it.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Also, 'precise effects' is clearly exaggeration : she only knew what it kills. She never said anything about them vomiting blood or anything else. That's all.
The when is really not that impressive either, a single vampire witnessing humans dying everywhere is enough to relay the information to the rest.
The where is really not impressive at all since people were dying literally everywhere.

Why would she say anything about vomitting blood to children? To give them another reason to run away from her gathering troops? Oh and I am sure she checked the entire world whether there were children younger than 14 under the victims. Which I can assure you there were if busses and cars suddenly went bonkers because their drivers died.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
How does her nearly killing a guy over seraphs proves she wasn't sent by the council above to retrieve the children that were spare by the virus? There is literally no connection between those two things.
And there is literally no mention anywhere that she experimented on the seraphs back then too. The only thing we know is that she acquired got the Hyakyua children after the world already ended.

Your argument was that the council approved her intial experiments.
And yes there is a mentioning, read between the lines.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
The Queen of England has less power than the parliament (and the Prime Minister). Similarly, here we have a Queen and a council of founders.
Moreover, she is a Third Founder, meaning there's at least a second founder and a first founder. We don't know what those ranks really mean yet, but the way Krul made it sound like, it's likely at least an indicative of powerlevel. (= there's at least two guy of the same species out there stronger than her)
Until proven otherwise, her power isn't nowhere near as absolute as you make it sound to be.

Ok... lets begin with the queen of england, before going back to Krul

1st) The queen ofEngland needs permission from the prime minister to enter london so she can't influence the parliament.
Thus even nowadays her political power is well recognized.

2nd) Now back to krul, she needs no such thing, and sits on a throne right in front of them. Additionally she obviously leads the council.
Oh and another thing... Some of them sit in positions where one would think they are all knaves not worthy to lay an eye on their queen. - How can I make such a statement?
Simply you can't see the throne from every angle of the room, which is a sign of superiority.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
Again, the one accused by the narrative isn't Krul but the humans. By PW standards the ones to be judged here are the humans not my client.

Actually the ones accusing humanity are the vampires which are not exactly trustable.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
No, I did, but you din't, as seen above. You didn't even give a proper argument as to why she would create an ophanage above when she can just kidnap them and experimenting on them underground.

I did in an earlier post. Thus I said 'above'.
However this argument is a moot point since if the orphanage isn't the laboratory the only other thing it could refer to is Krul's underground city.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection!
By phoenix wright standards, it is.
By normal debating standards, it also is even more.

Really?
Has Phoenix Wright ever managed to claim the benefit of doubt? Has he ever had to not be the one to proof everything?

Nope Phoenix wright is definitely the one with the burden of proof that his client is not guilty.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
This isn't an explanation. Especially when no one in history said so.

It is an explaination. A very short and stinging one, and even a logical one considering how there were other survivors than the military.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it, Von Karma-san.
By saying this, you killed your whole argument. If they aren't protected by the military then they had no need for training, nor they displayed to possess anything that needed that.
In this case they didn't need any 'adult only knowledge' (unlike with the military), "they were young at that time argument" is totally valid (unlike with the military).

I take this as you arguing that the parents of those children were at the time they concieved them no older than 13 then.

- Now please take out a mirror, look into it and say repeat that argument. - If you are still content with saying they were not older than 13 when they got their own children aftwerwards, be my guest.

So yeah chances they were older are a lot higher than that they were between 0 and 13 years old.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection, Von Karma-san.
See above, unlike the military which had ambulances, schools, etc, those guys had nothing.

a) military academy
b) military hospital
c) military equipment

And for the last 2 you don't even need to gather tham beforehand.
The same goes for any equipment in general btw.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Gotcha!
If 'coincidence' is enough to make you a culprit, by saying "humans survived by coincidence" earlier, you also confirmed humanity's status as 'culprit'.

Memo to myself: Defense attorneys are immune to sarcasm and cynicism.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
Yes, exactly. And argument usable in this case, but not with the military.

*Picard facepalm*
Seriously, do you honestly believe that the parents there got their own children while being no older than 13?
their survival was pure coincidence and thats it - thus it has been established that coincidental survival was posisble.

Moreover, if, according to the data you provided, 90% of humanity has perished (which is very hard to proof btw) the rest 10% would all have to be military personell if we follow your argument. Yet we already saw that it wasn't the case.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Objection.
Nope, it has been established that there was no coincidental survival among the people outside the military. Thus the military coincidental survival is still not plausible.

No it hasn't been established. In fact the newest addition to your client's lifestock proofs that coincidental survival was possible, as they were not part of the military nor protected by them.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Hold it!
Where has it been said it is the case?

He is the highest ranking officer of the IJDA.
To say it in your own words, thats the narrative.

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Gotcha!
So you admit they might have had the gears before the plague?
i.e : they played with demons and curses before the plague?
Mr Von Karma, you just admitted once more that humans are potential culprits.

So what? How did you get me?´
Honestly I am speechless how you can question that the military has ABC gear...

ABC stands for atomic, biological and chemical and is standard equipment in the military.
heck I was there for just 6 months mandatoryconscirption time and had one.

Sorry but I don't really see the problem with soldiers having gas masks.
Oh and btw.
Even recruits are being trained to put those on within a few seconds or get them out off their lockers in less than a minute even when standing right in front of the barracks and thus probably hgaving to run up stairs to get to their lockers first. That is if they don't already have it on them anyway.