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Old 2017-04-21, 12:58   Link #3841
Hokoga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
1. I've been nothing but cordial in expressing my opinion and analyses on what's going on in the story. So I don't appreciate you just chiming in and calling my OPINIONS bullshit.

2. 1 throw away line by a god that has nothing to do with Makoto or his mission does not "trump" any of the stuff I've been saying.

3. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation then do us all a favor and kindly fuck off.
THERE IS NO MISSION

He's been told to do what he wants and that's what he's been doing.

Cry me a f*cking river, are you that sensitive?
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:01   Link #3842
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Hokoga View Post
THERE IS NO MISSION

He's been told to do what he wants and that's what he's been doing.

Cry me a f*going river, are you that sensitive?
He was SUMMONED there for a REASON, once his parent signed the agreement his mission as a hero was preordained before he was born the goddess needed someone and Tsukuyomi picked him of the three, if anything the other two have no reason to be there.

Having my opinion called bullshit only because you agree with the other guy and acting dismissive is a sign of disrespect. Excuse me for not taking any of your condescending shit.
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:15   Link #3843
Ruki0089
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@Somethindarker
Well let just say Makoto is destined to be Hero like you said the moment he and his sisters born because his parents agreement with bug Goddess... One of them might get summoned by that bug in future to save that world (lol) ... And Makoto was chosen.
But the moment Bug saw him not fit for her taste, she just throw him to wasteland without any protection... And she summon two LoL hero
And that moment her agreement with Makoto's parents gone... Why? Because Bug summon him but throw him wasteland and if he just normal man without special power... He will be killed the moment he encounter a monster there...
And I agree with the others, Makoto have no obligation to save that world... Why would he should save that world? Because he is a Hero?? Nah, he is not a Hero... And he don't want to be that hero(lol)
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:22   Link #3844
Hokoga
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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
He was SUMMONED there for a REASON, once his parent signed the agreement his mission as a hero was preordained before he was born the goddess needed someone and Tsukuyomi picked him of the three, if anything the other two have no reason to be there.
And that so called reason has been REVOLTED by the person(Bug) who summoned him.


preordained? No it wasn't, the agreement between the goddess and his parent says nothing about any of their future kids being summoned as a hero, the parents didn't even know what important thing the goddess would take and at the time of the agreement the goddess herself didn't even think she would one day have to summon one of their kids to be a hero.

The agreement itself was mostly the goddess being pissy that the parents still wanted to leave even after all of her persuasion for them not to go.
Quote:
Having my opinion called bullshit only because you agree with the other guy and acting dismissive is a sign of disrespect. Excuse me for not taking any of your condescending shit.
I'll just stop there.
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:22   Link #3845
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
@Somethindarker
Well let just say Makoto is destined to be Hero like you said the moment he and his sisters born because his parents agreement with bug Goddess... One of them might get summoned by that bug in future to save that world (lol) ... And Makoto was chosen.
But the moment Bug saw him not fit for her taste, she just throw him to wasteland without any protection... And she summon two LoL hero
And that moment her agreement with Makoto's parents gone... Why? Because Bug summon him but throw him wasteland and if he just normal man without special power... He will be killed moment he encounter a monster there...
And I agree with the others, Makoto have no obligation to save that world... Because he is a Hero?? Nah, he is not a Hero... And he don't want to be that hero(lol)
Makoto is the chosen one though, the other two heroes(lol) aren't even in the same league physically, just because the goddess didn't physically give him a mission and just threw him away doesn't mean his purpose as a hero is nullified. Tsukuyomi gave him powers comparable(if not more powerful) than the goddess'. If you reach inside a pickle jar and take out a shrimpy discolored one and throw it away in favor of two juicer plumper ones does that change the fact that the first one isn't a pickle?

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Originally Posted by Hokoga View Post
And that so called reason has been REVOLTED by the person(Bug) who summoned him.


preordained? No it wasn't, the agreement between the goddess and his parent says nothing about any of their future kids being summoned as a hero, the parents didn't even know what important thing the goddess would take and at the time of the agreement the goddess herself didn't even think she would one day have to summon one of their kids to be a hero.

The agreement itself was mostly the goddess being pissy that the parents still wanted to leave even after all of her persuasion for them not to.
Why were the original heroes summoned? Why did the goddess(have Tsukuyomi) summon Makoto? To be a hero. Just because she threw a bitch fit doesn't change the fact that his reason for being there is to be a hero, he's Tsukuyomi's hero not the Goddess'. Also what else would be a couples most precious item? Their toaster? Even though he doesn't have a mission doesn't change all the good he's been doing in that world, if anything in spite of not having a mission he's arguably doing more good than the other two dipshit heroes.


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I'll just stop there.
Me too.
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Last edited by Somethindarker; 2017-04-21 at 13:34.
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:32   Link #3846
Ruki0089
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And why would Bug consider him as her chosen one? Both of them like water and oil... Makoto even planning to her if she corner him and bug look down on him, not even care about him, never treat him as the so called Chosen one... Remember her agreement with Makoto's parents gone the moment she sent him to wasteland, she not even care whether he died or not... and the moment her lol chosen hero in pinch, she summon him forcely and order him to protect her lol hero...
Why would he can be considered chosen one...? Why would he want to helping that bug...? He helping her lol hero because shiki's advice...
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:38   Link #3847
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
And why would Bug consider him as her chosen one? Both of them like water and oil... Makoto even planning to her if she corner him and bug look down on him, not even care about him, never treat him as the so called Chosen one... Remember her agreement with Makoto's parents gone the moment she sent him to wasteland, she not even care whether he died or not... and the moment her lol chosen hero in pinch, she summon him forcely and order him to protect her lol hero...
Why would he can be considered chosen one...? Why would he want to helping that bug...? He helping her lol hero because shiki's advice...
I'm talking about the metaphorical chosen one, he's not her chosen one if anything he's Tsukubro's chosen one getting shit done. Thanks for reminding me, when the other two dipshits got mollywopped who was sent to get the job done? That's right, Ma-fucking-koto. When the bitch goddess got backed into the corner she relied on her rejected hero to woop that ass and wipe it, for a humiliating price. He's not the hero she needs, Makobro the hero she deserves. Honestly I still don't like his character as a whole and think an Arata-like character would improve the story but Makobro has his moments.
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Old 2017-04-21, 13:47   Link #3848
Ruki0089
Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan
 
 
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Nah, that bug didn't deserve Makoto be her hero... Yeah, if you saying Makoto is Tsukoyomi's chosen one then I'm totally agree with you... But Tsukiyomi only told Makoto to do whatever he wants... Do him a favor if he can... To take care of his fellow human or Lol hero...
If Tsukiyomi not saying anything about them... Makoto maybe already kill lowly hero Trashmoki... And Hibiki might get warning from him...
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Old 2017-04-21, 14:36   Link #3849
ryuuya
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this conversation is great and when we will have the chapter that everything burns to the ground ?
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Old 2017-04-21, 16:25   Link #3850
Asuka'
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Originally Posted by ryuuya View Post
when we will have the chapter that everything burns to the ground ?
A century later.
Tsukuyomi told mako "let's meet again in about a hundred years later".
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Old 2017-04-21, 20:54   Link #3851
Enigma29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Spoiler:


^That right there shows that "precious thing" they agreed to was one of their children, just because they didn't reference it directly doesn't mean that the clues and innuendos of the conversation don't imply it.

So then why was she gonna give him power? Why did she summon him after she saw what her world had become after "napping"? Why was she saying she preferred his sisters? Why did she steal two OTHER candidates and give THEM powers? For shits and giggles? No. She needed a powerful person from another world to give them powers and use sais person as a hero, if she found Makoto to her liking she would've called him a hero, gave him powers and treated him right. You can pettifog and refer to him as a failed hero, but he's a hero nonetheless who's going against convention and helping the world in his own way. Destiny isn't something you can choose, whether he likes it or not he's helping the goddess' world by keeping the fight restricted to only 2 sides, helping the non-combatants and training would be adventurers in proper fighting. Those parallel existences all deal with possibilities like that other god sais, I can't remember his name, those would be lives all have Makoto starting in the exact same way just nuanced differences with different powers manifesting.
Nothing outright suggests that the goddess meant one of their children. It could've meant anything, but she was in need of a hero during this time, so she chose to take one of their children.

You can guess yourself about why she would prefer his sisters over him, can't you? It's the same reason why she didn't want him as the hero.

But she didn't O_O

She chose others to fill that role, so it's their duty to save the world, not Makoto's. Another god gave him his blessing to be free in that world and do whatever he wanted to do.

Makoto had no intention of saving or changing that world until his talk with Hibiki and he still doesn't. He only thought about what he would do after he took down the goddess.

Read the side story...

Makoto has been continuously changing his own fate, making one of the norn sisters call him a "cheater". When Makoto is supposed to meet a certain fate, his power kicks in and direct him away from that path.

Those parallel worlds represent more than just possibilities, especially after we have learnt about Makoto's special ability to change his own fate. I mean, why bring it up if it wasn't important and by the norn sisters, no less.

They themselves said how incredible it was.

Every time Makoto was supposed to meet a bad fate, he somehow takes a different path and avoid that fate. If Makoto followed his original destiny, he wouldn't have been born at all.

I know that he is unconsciously helping that world, but most of the changes he has brought to that world were things that has gone against the goddess' beliefs.

1) Helping hyumans rely on their own strength and not so much on the goddess' blessing.

2) Currently aiding a revolution that goes against a system the goddess herself created.

3) Helping lessen the discrimination of demi-humans.

4) Taking out the corrupted nobles (Hopelace) and merchant business' (Saritz' uncle's business and others they unintentionally destroyed) and changing each major power in a way that goes against the goddess in a way. Lorel is still unknown, but Saritz might choose Makoto over the goddess and start something.

While Makoto is changing the world for the better, he isn't working in the favour of the goddess. To me it looks like... if the goddess gains her divine powers through her believers, then Makoto's actions is slowly weakening her.

Last edited by Enigma29; 2017-04-21 at 22:00.
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Old 2017-04-21, 21:34   Link #3852
Gerard07
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Old 2017-04-21, 22:15   Link #3853
jasper222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
Another intense argument
It's all my fault and I completely own up to it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker
How has he grown emotionally since the beginning?
He doesn't lose his mind during important moments
He doesn't waver when push comes to shove anymore
He realizes that it's okay to use power when the situation needs it, but like Superman he doesn't flaunt it
He has a clear policy in mind now as opposed to his first year in the world where he didn't know what to do with all that power
He's lost his mind a total of thrice this series (killing the hyuman adventurer, btfo'd by Zara, insulted by Samal) and we've seen in those three circumstances how progressively fast he's making up his mind instead of dilly dallying
In the first situation he debated with himself and spent a whole day in bed because he was afraid he became a murderer
In the second situation he was thoroughly conflicted on what do after he realized everybody in that city was a selfish prick that was out for his blood
In the third situation he didn't waver anymore and it shows (beating Tomoki to a pulp was a prelude to his current mindset)

I wonder what you've been reading if you can't see those things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker
Even Tomoe, Mio and Shiki have noticed how aloof he growing and Hibiki is genuinely scared of him because of how detached with reality he is
Wrong again
The latest arc in terms of Makoto's EQ is how to rein in that desire to just shit on everybody with his power
His latest fights are a string of victories after all, even experienced champions irl can develop overconfidence
Because he's got the instant decision-making down already, Makoto's next dilemma is now how he can balance between using the power card and when not to since he's not above using it all the time anymore
All those things make him infinitely better than Arata and I like T7

Tomoe and Shiki are just worried that Makoto will grow up into a power trip like Tomoki
Mio will probably worry about this later but as for now she just wants the world to know who they're messing with and is alright with the situation
Hibiki's worries are groundless and nonsensical because it's her own problem, she's insecure about someone she can't control
Makoto is reluctant about letting go of his Earth values, whereas Hibiki has cast them out entirely which is why she can't understand why Makoto isn't siding with the hyumans, hence her trying to use the senpai-kohai relationship to influence him
Also, reason why Waterfall and Hibiki are afraid of Makoto is because he's not a schemer, they can't read a WYSIWYG person strange as that sounds
It's the same thing with Zara, Rembrandt, and the Demon King, they all first thought that Makoto was some tiptop keikaku doori schemer
Then they realized he was just a commoner with a lot of power, just wanting to live his life selling medicines and shit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker
although tbh the WN stopped updating a while ago so the author is probably done with it and is focusing on the LN, haven't read it but the story is probably more streamlined now.
The updates are regular though, just had an update yesterday

I think I know your problem with Makoto
Your problem with Makoto is his inaction, not his indecisiveness
Because if anything Makoto is decisive af now
His policy is very simple, family is top, bug is shit, allies are friends and if you pull keikaku doori bs on him then you just lost his trust
What you see is what you get
Unlike all the other LN protagonists and similar, Makoto doesn't take advantage of his godly power
And that is totally fine
He doesn't have to act like dime-a-dozen highschool geniuses who pull knowledge out of their asses and flaunt their power whenever convenient

He doesn't have to be a hero

He's not destined to be one

You're acting like Hibiki because you're both mad that he's not using his power to influence the world for your own sakes

Some people don't wanna watch the world burn but that doesn't mean running the world according to how you want it all the time

It's completely possible to lose your naivete and yet still act the same. Pope John Paul II saw WW2 happening in his own hometown, why didn't he pick up a gun and say fuck Germany? Because he didn't want to, and instead became pope

Same logic here except Makoto isn't above using force when he wants to now

"With great power comes great responsibility" except uncle ben never told peter to act like a hero. Makoto is responsible enough to not kill everyone that pisses him off.

Being badass and acting like nothing ordinary fazes him anymore isn't the only way to develop a character. Being badass when the situation calls for it and acting like an ordinary commoner is another way too

You should read The Silver Surfer's comics if you have a chance, Makoto's similar to him
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Old 2017-04-21, 22:59   Link #3854
travelingbum
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Originally Posted by Gerard07 View Post
Question?:
Spoiler for :
Spoiler for :

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper222 View Post
The updates are regular though, just had an update yesterday
the last update was the end of October
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depending on who is translating.......
this kind of quality is what you may be getting....

so when reading/watching.... you risk taking it with a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF SALT.
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Old Yesterday, 15:55   Link #3855
Digibeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
1. I've been nothing but cordial in expressing my opinion and analyses on what's going on in the story. So I don't appreciate you just chiming in and calling my OPINIONS bullshit.

2. 1 throw away line by a god that has nothing to do with Makoto or his mission does not "trump" any of the stuff I've been saying.

3. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation then do us all a favor and kindly fuck off.
Dude did you ignore the most important thing in the story which was the initial conflict tsukiyomi and the goddess had? TSUKIYOMI CHOSE MAKOTO BECAUSE HE WAS THE BEST SUITED HERO IN THE FAMILY, but THE GODDESS IS PETTY AND DISCARDED HIM TO THE WASTELAND BECAUSE OF HIS UGLY LOOKS TO KEEP HIM AS FAR AS POSSIBLE FR9M HYUMANS, SHE GAVE HIM THE MINIMUM BLESSING SHE COULD BECAUSE OF HER AGREEMENT WITH TSUKIYOMI IN TAKING MAKOTO FROM HER WORLD WHICH WAS A BUNCH OF BASIC LANGUAGE COMPREHENSION, MAMONOS AND DEMONS EVEN ANCIENT AND EXTINCT RACES ETC except HYUUMAN LANGUAGES. Sorry no hate but had to be caps... Adding to that. The goddess herself nonchalantly changed that to full language comprehension because she had a deal with makoto so he would save hibiki including to not interfere with him anymore as long as he doesnt take a side in the war against hyuumans. Because until then she just discarded him to the end of the world LITERALLY! And not even teleport him to the ground
. The other thing is THE GODDESS BETRAYED TSUKIYOMI BY TAKING 2 OTHER PEOPLE WHICH ALSO PUT STRAIN IN TSUKIYOMI AND TSUKIYOMI GAVE MAKOTO HIS BLESSING SAYING TO LIVE AS HE WOULD WANT HAPPILY but unintentionally got more than the expected amount of power fet sucked out in that blessing which is probably sakai. Including the fact of alerting other gods of what the hoddess did where she was punished by daikoku, susanoo and anthena! The initial conflict already had tsukiyomi tell him he no longer has any obligation to the godess and her world with the goddess expressing that she doesnt want him to be the hero by discarding him and only summoned him immediately to several battlefeilds so that tomoki and hibiki could be saved or at least run away while having makoto as the demon's decoy.

REMEMBER MAKOTO IS THE USUAL UNAMBITIOUS, DEPRESSED HIGHSCHOOL TEENAGER with an inferiority complex(obvious by how he always underestimates himself) who likes staying low key and invisible. Not the overacheiver rich girl Hibiki nor the EXTREMELY PERVERTED CHUUNIBYOU Tomoki. Also notice how the other 3 gods dropped by and helped him without saying how he should take xare of the world as a hero? Its all because of the conflict he and tsukiyomi had with the goddess at the start, even by helping him hide asora from the goddess and showing him parallel events where he got proactively involved in the war instead...

Now he is just staying low key and doing what he wants while enjoying it. So no world saving responsibility which could force him to mature and grow up(simmilar to how many teens and young adults unintentionally getting pregnant and having kids, thats where the sudden responsibility forces them to get a job and mature.) also he plans to get stronger and eventually giving the goddess a piece of his mind.

This argument is probably over but i just want to let off some steam... Also stressed with the sudden responsibility i got from work, not in my job description but i do it because i love my job and my patients
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Old Yesterday, 22:16   Link #3856
jasper222
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Spoiler for :

the last update was the end of October
Are you talking about the translations or the original WN? I'm not sure sorry
I was talking about the translations
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Old Yesterday, 22:38   Link #3857
Asuka'
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Are you talking about the translations or the original WN? I'm not sure sorry
I was talking about the translations
He means about the RAW wn, and yes it's been left with no update for a long time.

The translation will soon catchup the raw and reach a cliffhanger coz so far fifth arc only have around 40 RAW chapter posted and each chapter is quite short compared to the chapters in the previous arc.

On the other hands, LN vol 11 started around where hibiki have a talk with mako, around a bit after the start of 4th arc. It will be a long time until it catch up to the wn. sigh...
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Old Today, 02:59   Link #3858
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Enigma29 View Post
Nothing outright suggests that the goddess meant one of their children. It could've meant anything, but she was in need of a hero during this time, so she chose to take one of their children.
The most precious thing to a couple fleeing a world trying to find safety is their children, it's not their belongings, pets or even their own parents. In Japanese, I forget the term, but there's a literature technique where when someone sais "their most precious thing" the object they're referring to is purposely vague and implied with the rest of the paragraph so it's a threat, like if you're trying to intimate a young girl it's their chastity, when you're intimidating a businessman it's their career. Thus using that logic, which sadly it's not really a thing in western literature, it's implied that "their most precious thing" is their children by virtue of the lengths their parents went to to make them strong and self reliant. You see it all the time in anime or manga the "subject matter" of the "thing" is implied though the context of the scenario.

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Originally Posted by Enigma29 View Post
You can guess yourself about why she would prefer his sisters over him, can't you? It's the same reason why she didn't want him as the hero.

I wasn't talking about the sisters when I mentioned the other two I was talking about the other two heroes.


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Originally Posted by Enigma29 View Post
She chose others to fill that role, so it's their duty to save the world, not Makoto's. Another god gave him his blessing to be free in that world and do whatever he wanted to do.

Makoto had no intention of saving or changing that world until his talk with Hibiki and he still doesn't. He only thought about what he would do after he took down the goddess.
I thought I made myself clear, I never said she was the goddess hero. He's her rejected hero, but a hero nonetheless since he has blessings of two gods and has served her on 2-3(I think) occasions already. He's a hero without a mission and a duty of a hero in general is to champion for good/change in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma29 View Post
Makoto has been continuously changing his own fate, making one of the norn sisters call him a "cheater". When Makoto is supposed to meet a certain fate, his power kicks in and direct him away from that path.

Those parallel worlds represent more than just possibilities, especially after we have learnt about Makoto's special ability to change his own fate. I mean, why bring it up if it wasn't important and by the norn sisters, no less.

They themselves said how incredible it was.

Every time Makoto was supposed to meet a bad fate, he somehow takes a different path and avoid that fate. If Makoto followed his original destiny, he wouldn't have been born at all.
I don't know about his changing fate or whatever since I took those dreams of his as alternate paths he could've taken but it was predetermined that he or his sisters would come be a hero/chosen for the goddess' world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper222 View Post
It's all my fault and I completely own up to it
Just a minor personality clash, no big deal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper222 View Post
I think I know your problem with Makoto
Your problem with Makoto is his inaction, not his indecisiveness
Because if anything Makoto is decisive af now
His policy is very simple, family is top, bug is shit, allies are friends and if you pull keikaku doori bs on him then you just lost his trust
What you see is what you get
Unlike all the other LN protagonists and similar, Makoto doesn't take advantage of his godly power
And that is totally fine
He doesn't have to act like dime-a-dozen highschool geniuses who pull knowledge out of their asses and flaunt their power whenever convenient

He doesn't have to be a hero

He's not destined to be one

You're acting like Hibiki because you're both mad that he's not using his power to influence the world for your own sakes

Some people don't wanna watch the world burn but that doesn't mean running the world according to how you want it all the time

It's completely possible to lose your naivete and yet still act the same. Pope John Paul II saw WW2 happening in his own hometown, why didn't he pick up a gun and say fuck Germany? Because he didn't want to, and instead became pope

Same logic here except Makoto isn't above using force when he wants to now

"With great power comes great responsibility" except uncle ben never told peter to act like a hero. Makoto is responsible enough to not kill everyone that pisses him off.

Being badass and acting like nothing ordinary fazes him anymore isn't the only way to develop a character. Being badass when the situation calls for it and acting like an ordinary commoner is another way too

You should read The Silver Surfer's comics if you have a chance, Makoto's similar to him
I think you hit the nail right on the head, he let's people die or his city get destroyed when he could easily prevent the loss of life or property damage. I don't have a problem with him as a character, I don't hate him or anything, I just find him boring. My cousin Junpei is just like him overly amiable and always say shit like, "oh come on it wasn't that great" or always downplaying his achievements then he complains that he's not getting a promotion at work or overlooked when credit is given, it drives me crazy so maybe I'm projecting Makoto as my dorky cousin. We can disagree on him being a proper hero, you say he isn't I say he's is it's no big deal that not the problem just a fundamental difference of opinion.

Actually Silver Surfer used to be my favorite superhero growing up took up surfing and even buy all my cars in silver with chrome accents, but I lost interest when that one writer started not only depowering him but made him mopey and needlessly made him a giant victim instead of a man defiant to his creators wishes. The a few years ago Marvel just turned convoluted and stagnated, then the era of "forced inclusion" started and I just lost all interest.

With this I've said my piece it's just my opinion and how I view what's going on.
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Old Today, 03:06   Link #3859
Ruki0089
Yandere Otoko Ruki-tan
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Indonesia,Samarinda
Dude, you still at it?
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Old Today, 03:19   Link #3860
Somethindarker
Super Senior Elder Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Silent Hill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
Dude, you still at it?
Haha I was gone so I didn't get to post my last piece.
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dickless mc, fantasy, gods, harem yet no harem, no romance, non-handsome mc, overpowered mc, power fantasy, slow plot, summoned hero, webnovel

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