2008-06-23, 07:59 | Link #1281 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North Carolina
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And, for another thing, has the author stated what version of Time travel he is using. I don't think we can go by what Mikuru said since there is evidence that the Time Travelers have affected the Time Line. It is obvious that they can change things, at least through a third party. Otherwise there would be no point in having Kyon do things to restore the Time Line. Last edited by PastPrime; 2008-06-23 at 08:53. |
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2008-06-23, 13:38 | Link #1282 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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The latter is more likely, in my books. How this occurs isn't explained by the principle, nor does it need to. For the purposes of fiction, we only need to know that "A wizard did it." Quote:
The Haruhi series probably uses the version that avoids the grandfather paradox, i.e. self-consistency. Restoring the timeline is not the same thing as changing the timeline. |
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2008-06-23, 14:27 | Link #1285 |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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New to this stuff, but...
The Haruhi books, in my opinion, tend to do more restoring than changing. If the timeline was changed, then there was something that caused that change; a basic principle of cause and effect. If the cause is not there, there wouldn't be anything to cause the effect. Also, they technically don't change the timeline, because most of what we see as 'changes' are actually events that have already happened in Kyon's timeline to the future Asahina. So even if Kyon 'changes' the timeline, he doesn't really change anything in the timeline because he was supposed to have changed the timeline in the first place. I need to read more about this though. Edit: Okay, read a little bit more about what everyone was talking about. I'd have to agree with the, "The three days never happened except in Kyon's memory idea." [Unless we want to discuss about alternate universes, because in that case it does exist.] My reason for agreeing with that is: Because she had never created the alternate reality, the alternate reality never happened. Kyon cut off the source, which cuts off the result. |
2008-06-23, 14:31 | Link #1286 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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2008-06-23, 14:39 | Link #1287 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Lets use a better example. According to this theory of time travel, I am physically unable to take 25 of my friends in chicken suits, walk to the current day Dealey plaza on the street where JFK was assassinated, and then travel back to 30 seconds before the assassination. We don't even need to try to stop the assassination, just show up. There is no rational explanation as to how 25 men in chicken suits appearing in the middle of the road could lead to the JFK assassination happening as it historically did. Their mere presence will create a paradox. The Universe has to do some very overt things to prevent my 25 chicken suited friends from doing this. Like breaking my time machine every time I try to do this. |
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2008-06-23, 14:43 | Link #1289 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Hopefully that never happens. |
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2008-06-23, 14:49 | Link #1291 | |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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You would be unable to walk there, correct? Something would prevent you from walking there, according to that theory. If you were to appear just there, there might be a problem though. It depends on how long you stay there. You might exist as a dead conspiracy theory, but if they get no proof of you being there, it's possible that the events after could be twisted. It doesn't have to be that you would be the cause, but that you might not be mentioned. For example, you might have stopped the car, which would have led to the assassination. After which, by one way or another, you would be sent back to your present time, which would lead to the absence of proof of your existence, which would lead your existence to become a theory. There's no way people will believe that 25 chicken-suited people just appeared out of nowhere. I'm not sure, to be honest. I personally like the alternate universes theory better. |
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2008-06-23, 14:57 | Link #1292 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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The Universe might as well send Major Zero as their avatar to personally kill you. |
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2008-06-23, 15:01 | Link #1293 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Of course, in real life, time travel can't occur at all. |
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2008-06-23, 15:05 | Link #1294 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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The only way a time paradox could be prevented in these circumstances, would be for the "powers that be", to sabotage the mission before they depart. This could range from having the lab explode, all the men simultaneous suffer fatal strokes/heart attacks, or to have the equipment malfunction every time it's used, sending them to a specific time where 25 guys in chicken suits appearing wouldn't change history. Quote:
The only time I can be convinced that this kind of time travel is possible, would be with direct interference of higher being not bound by conventional logic and space time constraints. |
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2008-06-23, 15:15 | Link #1295 |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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It's true that people will see it, but that doesn't mean that Zapruder [I feel pretty awkward talking about someone when I don't know who that person is.] will veer his camera away. I'm explaining what might happen to your circumstance if the Novikov principle applies, so it has to happen in a circumstance similar to that. Even if they did see it, that doesn't mean that it will validate the existence, and over time the "chicken men" might fade away.
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2008-06-23, 15:26 | Link #1297 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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One learns these sorts of things when your American history teacher is a conspiracy nut. Quote:
Plus, it doesn't account for the fact that my friends in chicken suits, could be a platoon of Green Beret's in bullet proof chicken suits armed with Machine guns! A crowd can plausibly ignore chicken men, but it can't ignore bullets. |
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2008-06-23, 15:32 | Link #1298 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Of course there could be some sort of conversion of matter block on time travel. Matter from one time is coverted to energy and moved back in time, it displaces an equal mount of energy from the target time period to the future. The question is if the time traveler can be placing into the displaced energy as matter, or if they can only be placed there as energy. Possibly in a non-corporal form and thus not be able to effect any changes in the timeline because they cannot interact with it at all. Only observe from any angle they choose. However if they are there as energy, then might be able to interact or be converted to another form of energy by local means...but that would probably kill the time traveller...but could cause an interaction in time (overloading a powerplant or sparking an spontanious human combustion maybe (a second human sized energy source inside an existing body...doubles the temperature...boom?)
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2008-06-23, 15:36 | Link #1299 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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One learns these sorts of things when your American history teacher is a conspiracy nut. Quote:
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2008-06-23, 16:23 | Link #1300 |
I'm ga-vomiting
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England - UK
Age: 36
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Ah man, Time Travel.
I'm more of the camp that even if you did go back in time to change something, the odds are that you wouldn't change a thing - something would happen to prevent you from doing what you intended to go out to do. Like, for instance, let's say you really are hell bent on going back in time to the JFK assasination dressed up in Chicken Suits. This is what you plan to do, and there is no way you are going to change your mind. Even before you set out (in the present time) to do it - it's already happened. You were already there at the JFK assasination anyway. Whatever the circumstances were, you didn't manage to divert the camera mans attention away onto yourselves. If you had a time machine that would allow you to go to a certain place at a certain time, and you programmed it to take you back to that time right in the middle of the road - something would have gone wrong with the device and it would have transported you somewhere else entirely from your intended place. This is, unless, you are bringing alternate dimensions and universes into the matter, at which case you'd have left our world and gone into one where the JFK assasination was thwarted by 25 men dressed as chickens |
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shounen, sneaker bunko, seinen, light novels, manga |
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