(L) Death Parade

[sikvod00]

Not a real fan of these types of shows where you throw people in a terrible situation just to reveal their "true" nature. It just seems like a cruel and long-winded way to get to the point of the matter.

[com_gwp]

Upon re-reading the thread, there seems to be some horrible misconception that there's a good and bad association with Reincarnation and "Void". The show's passing remark about "Heaven and Hell" seems more a red herring than anything, because ultimately neither outcome is better or worse than the other. So I feel I should step up and offer my two cents on the subject, at least before we all continue to gush with more interpretations.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism, which the two concepts take inspiration from, but what I do know on the subject is that instead of seeing the outcomes as a consequence, it might better serve to see as a continuation of a spiritual path. The game and this limbo world, in a sense, are a means of discerning a person's nature to put them on the appropriate path.

At the heart of reincarnation in Buddhism is the concept of mortal desire, and this is what bind a person the cycle of rebirth. This is the easier one between the two outcomes to process; the husband obviously shows a (ahem) parade of human desire, and a lot of attachment to mortality. Hence, he continues along the path of reincarnation.

Void on the other hand is a little bit more difficult to define, because the show's take on it seems to be inspired by multiple religious concepts. There's a bit of Limbo there, and maybe a bit of Nirvana, which is what I'm expanding upon: essentially, a spirit that has cast away all earthly desires is freed from the cycle of rebirth and achieves Nirvana. What happens then? It's ambiguous in most cases, because how would one normally understand casting away all desire? This ambiguity is also what the concept of the Void in the story adheres to, and likewise, the key reason why I feel it is quite hard to grasp why the wife ended up progressing to the Void. Had she come to terms with her life? Did she really cheat, or was it a cover-up lie? Lots of interpretations can be made here. Additionally, I feel this is also why there's the casual remark by the girl that "it's awful". Anyone with any sense of attachment to mortality or existence would probably not be able to comprehend, perhaps even revel the nature of the "Void".

So this brings me back to my original point; there's no right or wrong, no superior outcome here; the game's intent is putting people on the spiritual path that they adhere to. That's why the judgement was not based on the winner or loser, but on how the game unfolded between the two. I understand the "good or bad" interpretation might just be as valid especially when it comes to how the limbo outcome is interpreted, but with the way it was presented in the show, I'm not so sure it's such a black-and-white situation. Adding to that, there won't be any surprise if, down the road, we see two people who both progress along the same path.

[pampz21]

I was kinda lost; did the wife really cheated on her husband?

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by pampz21

I was kinda lost; did the wife really cheated on her husband?

Yes, it was shown in a flashback

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by JustThisOne

Yes, it was shown in a flashback

I wouldn't be so sure about that. You may want to look at the first flashbacks before Machiko threw the dart that hit Takashi's heart. They suggest that she slept with Takashi, got pregnant and then married him after which they took their honeymoon and lastly died during the trip.

It's rather ambiguous because Takashi's flashbacks hint about her weird behaviour suggesting that she might be cheating behind his back. And then, yes, the last flashback about her cheating was shown during her confession. However if I had to pick one of those flashbacks and call them made up, it's the cheating one. The episode leaves the situation ambiguous on purpose so I doubt you can prove either way, I personally believe she didn't cheat though, as much as it doesn't matter anymore.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Revan21

In my interpretation,

When they arrived, Takashi stepped out from the elevator marked with the devil face, meaning he was on his way to hell/void, while Machiko to heaven/reincarnation with the white mask elevator.

Then we get to hear about this Matchy, who cheats on her husband. She's an actual person because her name was on the table card during the ending. So Machiko did not lie, the gossip was not about her.

But because of this, Takashi grew cold toward Machiko after the wedding, which led to her having a one night stand with an unknown man (there's a flashback on this when she admits it). It did not mean anything, and she still only loved her husband. But seeing how devastated Takashi has become because of the whole thing, Machiko decide to make a bigger lie out of it (that's why Decim looked at her with wide open eyes), saying see never cared about him and the child is not his, thus lifting the weight of their deaths off his shoulder.

At the end, Machiko won the darts game and as a reward decided to take Takashi's place in the elevator to Hell, out of selfless love and regret because of that meaningless affair.

Now that you mention this part, every pieces indeed fall into places.

To begin with, when Machiko was trying to dispose her last dart, all the flashback had a huge implication it was Takashi's child after all, then they got married.

She doesn't really gain anything into exposing herself considering their situation, so it certainly confirm she was trying her best to lift that burden, since everything is pretty much Takashi's fault.

[Seihai]

I totally overlooked Revan21's post. lol It makes so much sense now, and that's some great attention to detail there. Thanks for that, now I don't need to break my head about this any longer (unless there is more to it).

[Miraluka]

I thought that last part about the cheating was an obvious lie to fool the husband.

And that's why the barman got shocked. He noticed the lie.

That was a more important sign to point out that she lied.

And later when the doors closed, she looked sad.

EDIT
And looking at the situation from outside:

Would have worked the confession about her cheating without that flashback? I'm sure watchers would have noticed it more fast without it, and that's a good move from the studio but it also can confuse the public

[DOmus]

So she went to some higher plain while the man went back to human world and started a new life, so he can redeem his behavior?

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by DOmus

so he can redeem his behavior?

I doubt he gets to reincarnate solely for that purpose, it's more like it's just a result of how the game ended up. Whatever he does with his new life is up to him.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I thought that last part about the cheating was an obvious lie to fool the husband.

It is still a bit murky there. I find it a bit clunky to have flashbacks as evidence, but also red herring despite they aren't really visible for the said characters, but illustrate to the audience what happened.

It makes the whole deal with Machiko's flashbacks and the wedding sequence "weaker" if we have to consider the "cheating flashback" is fake.

The fact she might did it doesn't cheapen what she tried to achieve anyway. Takashi's behaviour right after the wedding is a reasonable reason why she had that one time only affair (it makes also sense why Machiko doesn't want to answer the phone as well, if she resolved herself to tell Takashi she is pregnant).

EDIT: Upon closer inspection with the "cheating flashback", I'm almost certain she did have sex with the other guy, but hardly something you can call a happy affair.
After all, she still wears her ring, and her face is deliberately hidden, while she strongly held the bed sheet. That doesn't really look like someone having fun with someone else, but definitely regretting that outcome.

[com_gwp]

Originally Posted by DOmus

So she went to some higher plain while the man went back to human world and started a new life, so he can redeem his behavior?

It's really left up to your imagination, because reincarnation and limbo are both very ambiguous concepts to begin with. You can intepret it in that manner, but I'd still say it's not a thing where you can put one outcome as superior over the other. I don't believe the man did anything "wrong" that needs redeeming, nor do I believe the wife deliberately chose self-sacrifice or received judgement for cheating; rather, it is only that they are on different points of their respective spiritual journey. If you were to believe Buddhist teachings about Nirvana (which I'm going to associate with the void for now) then breaking free of reincarnation as the wife did would be the end of your spiritual journey.

[Amiluhur]

Just noticed that the masks above the elevators look different when they leave. The husband has a smiling mask and the wife a demon. When they arrived it was reverse.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is still a bit murky there. I find it a bit clunky to have flashbacks as evidence, but also red herring despite they aren't really visible for the said characters, but illustrate to the audience what happened.

Like I said before, how would have the public take the confession without that flashback?
Most would agree that she didn't cheat because there was no "proof".

However...

It makes the whole deal with Machiko's flashbacks and the wedding sequence "weaker" if we have to consider the "cheating flashback" is fake.

It got you, you and many others had to rewatch that episode/scene and I'm sure you will again .

The fact she might did it doesn't cheapen what she tried to achieve anyway. Takashi's behaviour right after the wedding is a reasonable reason why she had that one time only affair (it makes also sense why Machiko doesn't want to answer the phone as well, if she resolved herself to tell Takashi she is pregnant).

I think that if she really cheated, then indeed she would have been guilty of Takashi's behaviour and thus the symbol on top of the elevator would have been the same as Takashi. Both do wrong both gets punishment but that didn't happen.

I personally think that, and I chose to trust that Machi and Machiko aren't the same person.
Takashi thought that Machi is Machiko, and that lead to a big misunderstanding making him think that Machiko had an affair on his flasbacks.

EDIT: Upon closer inspection with the "cheating flashback", I'm almost certain she did have sex with the other guy, but hardly something you can call a happy affair.
After all, she still wears her ring, and her face is deliberately hidden, while she strongly held the bed sheet. That doesn't really look like someone having fun with someone else, but definitely regretting that outcome.

Again, it wouldn't have worked for you and others without it, would it?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I think that if she really cheated, then indeed she would have been guilty of Takashi's behaviour and thus the symbol on top of the elevator would have been the same as Takashi.

I personally think that, and Ichose to trust that Machi and Machiko aren't the same person.
Takashi thought that Machi is Machiko, and that lead to a big misunderstanding making him think that she had an affair.

Actually, after Revan21's post, I also think she never cheated on Takashi before their wedding. This is supplemented with the whole flashback when she figured out she is pregnant then we have the wedding transition.

It is the other way around: it is because of Takashi's behaviour that she cheated on him. That's why the fact she cheated on him wasn't the cause of Takashi's paranoia, since it was solely the result of a coincidence.
The flashback itself doesn't make any sense if it is part of the lie, because they wouldn't have shown her miserable with the other guy.

I think this scene gives a certain nuance to Machiko's character, and a touch of irony as well.

[orion]

Originally Posted by hamazura

void could be heaven. you are free from all of your burden in living world. we dont know what is 'heaven' after all, no one went there and comeback to tell us with prove...

Heaven doesn't have a demon face over its entrance.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, after Revan21's post, I also think she never cheated on Takashi before their wedding. This is supplemented with the whole flashback when she figured out she is pregnant then we have the wedding transition.

It is the other way around: it is because of Takashi's behaviour that she cheated on him. That's why the fact she cheated on him wasn't the cause of Takashi's paranoia, since it was solely the result of a coincidence.
The flashback itself doesn't make any sense if it is part of the lie, because they wouldn't have shown her miserable with the other guy.

I think this scene gives a certain nuance to Machiko's character, and a touch of irony as well.

Note this:

Weren't they going on a honey moon trip when they crashed to their deaths?
Doesn't a HM trip happens right after the wedding?

Or are you implying that there was a time between those two events and there was enough time so she could cheat because of Takashi's paronia?

[Seihai]

A honeymoon doesn't neccessarily happen right after a wedding, no. It can take up to several months and even up to a year possibly till you go on a honeymoon.

[Miraluka]

Yeah, but that's grasping too much on the straws for an anime that didn't give much details but some form of ambiguity .

[orion]

I think that she did cheat on him. She "won" the game at the point of her confession. She was mad and heading towards the exit. It didn't make a difference one way or the other how he felt at that point because from her perspective she was going to heaven. At that point, she could drop any facade that she had.

I think that she was prob carrying his kid. To bad she got pregnant before getting married.

Originally Posted by Seihai

A honeymoon doesn't neccessarily happen right after a wedding, no. It can take up to several months and even up to a year possibly till you go on a honeymoon.

The man is a doctor. He can afford a honeymoon. It happened most likely after the wedding.