The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 7]

[mokuseimaru]

Right now, the only question that remains is, will there be 8 episodes or 13. At first, I think no one seriously considered they'd do all 13 episodes. It was a joke when most people said it, but now who knows.

You know, right now, even more than than the conclusion, I want to see the defenders (you know who you are) crack like the rest of us. Bafflement and awe and claims that a true 2nd season is around the corner can only go so far. It's not like those of us who are pissed about this are so 24/7---you can say it's just entertainment, but anger and frustration is a natural response to being teased and denied. You know the kind of punishment the Greek's envisioned for Sisyphus---rolling a boulder up a hill and having it always roll back down before he reached the top. For Tantalus, it was starving and dying of thirst while being half submerged in water with a plate of fruit hanging just out of reach, either of which would disappear if he reached for them. This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Eak

But all lameness aside.. animation-wise this one was beautiful. The best so far in my opinion

Which is rather sad. If it wasn't for all the drama over E8 everyone would be really excited about the animation quality going up so much.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.

There's about five different ways I can spin this punchline, but politics are a touchy topic online, so they shall remain unsaid.

But oh, the potential.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

You know, right now, even more than than the conclusion, I want to see the defenders (you know who you are) crack like the rest of us. Bafflement and awe and claims that a true 2nd season is around the corner can only go so far. It's not like those of us who are pissed about this are so 24/7---you can say it's just entertainment, but anger and frustration is a natural response to being teased and denied. You know the kind of punishment the Greek's envisioned for Sisyphus---rolling a boulder up a hill and having it always roll back down before he reached the top. Tantalus, it was starving and dying of thirst while being half submerged in water with a plate of fruit hanging just out of reach, either of which would disappear if he reached for them. This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.

ROFL. Now it's torture, is it?! (Again, I suppose we could go with the "how do you think Yuki feels?!" bit. )

The only reason some people haven't "cracked" (and won't) is because they don't have the same degree of emotional investment in seeing the show continue right away. Rather than be angry about it, they're probably just looking at the show with detached, abstract curiosity/fascination. In other words, you only get mad if you take it personally. Most other people would just stop caring.

The way I see it, what would be worse would be if they started changing the story in such a way that would preclude them from animating future content properly, because then they can't go back. So far, though, they haven't done that, so nothing has been permanently lost. Just put on hold... endlessly...

I sure they'll animate more story when they feel like it, and when they do, I'm sure it'll be fine. Until then, all we can do is wait anyway.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

The only reason some people haven't "cracked" (and won't) is because they don't have the same degree of emotional investment in seeing the show continue right away. Rather than be angry about it, they're probably just looking at the show with detached, abstract curiosity/fascination. In other words, you only get mad if you take it personally. Most other people would just stop caring.

I think it's more a case of all the casual people who did get genuinely excited about the new episodes no longer really care anymore. Sure the fanboys continue to get worked up and make allot of noise, but by this point the vast majority of people simply can't get worked up over this anymore.

Some people talk about everyone getting worked up again when the E8 loop ends...but that doesn't seem very realistic expectation. The fans already got worked up into a jubilant frenzy by just having new episodes. And now they're down from that high. There not gonna get worked up to even a fraction of what happened previously. What will happen is that a core of enthusiastic people will get really excited about E8 ending and laugh about it...but everyone else will simply go meh and move on.

The momentum is gone.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

The momentum is gone.

And this is why Haruhi has, as people have been saying, jumped the shark.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And this is why Haruhi has, as people have been saying, jumped the shark.

Can't you only say hat the shark was jumped if all that happens after is also bad? The Second Season (you know, the real one) can still be good.

[wittyusername]

...At least this episode was pretty.

Honestly, it's like I can't even be bothered with this series anymore. At first I thought the whole idea of multiple episodes for Endless Eight was interesting, if not a little bit annoying. If it had worked out to be an episode with no one doing anything about the loop, an episode where Kyon failed to end the loop, and an episode where he finally stopped being dumb as bricks...well, that would've been nice. Maybe not the most otaku-wrath provoking thing to ever happen, but not everything has to cause ragesplosions.

But that didn't happen, did it?

It's like how there's stages for grief, but for annoyance at Endless Eight. First there's the "oh, well, uh, hopefully this will be interesting. It's Haruhi, isn't it?" stage. Then there's the "HAHAHA WHAT" stage, which rolls around at about the same time Kyon decides he might as well forget about his homework. Next, once the animation's gotten kind of disappointing and characters suffer from the dreaded whaleteeth disease, you start to just get plain old pissed off. After that you either decide that it's not that bad, because at least now you really get to feel how Yuki would, or you decide that the whole thing's just gotten stupid.

At least the ending's gonna feel comparatively kickass, if when the final Endless Eight episode does show up.

tl;dr: lol haruhi please don't go further downhill ;__;

[Triple_R]

relentlessflame and Roger Rambo - If this was a lesser anime, I wouldn't be this upset. But this isn't a lesser anime - this is a flagship anime; an anime that became an internet culture phenomena; something with incredible long-term potential; something that even transcended anime itself to a certain degree. The name "Haruhi Suzumiya" is one of a very few anime character names (almost certainly the only non-shonen anime character name) to actually become a "household name" of sorts on the internet.

Simply put, if handled right, this particular anime could have done loads of good for anime in general - it could have lifted the entire industry a la what Hulk Hogan did for pro wrestling in the 1980s - the potential that I strongly suspect has been lost forever is simply staggering. And that potential is lost in the midst of a world recession... because KyoAni has run this anime right into the ground... *sigh*

Oh well... one way you're right is that there's not much we can do but vent and speculate. And maybe make spoof videos, which I might try my hand at again soon just to try to get some humor out of this.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

So far, though, they haven't done that, so nothing has been permanently lost. Just put on hold... endlessly...

It could be argued that the time, money, work and art for five episodes has been lost.

All this isn't free, and when you see that it took three years for a new season (or whatever you wish to call this) for Haruhi, and that some other franchises are still waiting for their own follow-up (say hello to my avatar), I can understand that each episode wasted is painfully felt for fans. It's an episode that will not be spent into a good story.
I'm "only" disappointed by how boring the serie has become, because I liked the show but wasn't a fanboy of it. But (edited for clarity) a true fan someone who strongly loved the serie, who see one after one each of the precious 14 new episodes vanish into non-existent story, wasted just to make a troll/concept, has definitely a right to be quite mad at this. I'm pretty sure I would be if they had done this to FMP.

Ressources aren't infinite (especially time), and each airing has only very limited time slots, so every week spend on wasting them, is actually permanently lost in a way ^^

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Akka

But a true fan

I don't think those actually exist.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Akka

It could be argued that the time, money, work and art for five episodes has been lost.

All this isn't free, and when you see that it took three years for a new season (or whatever you wish to call this) for Haruhi, and that some other franchises are still waiting for their own follow-up (say hello to my avatar), I can understand that each episode wasted is painfully felt for fans. It's an episode that will not be spent into a good story.

KyoAni is probably never going to make an FMP sequel. I have my doubts they even wanted to make a Haruhi sequel. They really don't seem to like sequels.

Originally Posted by Akka

But a true fan

Using the phrase "true fan" tends to make you look like an elitist jackass.

I'm not saying that you are at all, just warning you, it's a very loaded term.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Simply put, if handled right, this particular anime could have done loads of good for anime in general - it could have lifted the entire industry a la what Hulk Hogan did for pro wrestling in the 1980s - the potential that I strongly suspect has been lost forever is simply staggering. And that potential is lost in the midst of a world recession... because KyoAni has run this anime right into the ground... *sigh*

This is why I'm pissed too.

Should mention that it's Kadokawa's fault. Animation companies have little say in what they animate.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Midonin

I don't think those actually exist.

Can we please avoid the pointless semantic nitpicking ? :-/
I obviously meant, "the people who strongly loved the serie".
I know that some of them actually like ark (though, from what I saw, it's often just out of smugness at seeing other raging, which is a pretty pathetic way of enjoying a show - and some who truly enjoy the concept, more power to these ones), but for most people, what is seen is simply that more than half of the season/re-airing/whatever (another point of nitpicking close to trolling, justifying the lack of story because "it's not a new season, it's a re-airing, btw) has been wasted just to troll/make a painfully overstretched attempt a innovation/tease.

Waiting three years for the follow-up just to see more than half of it blow in your face... I can totally understand why anyone who loved the show and wanted to see what's happening next is pissed off.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Akka

It could be argued that the time, money, work and art for five episodes has been lost.

No. We lost something else. The fan bases psychotic enthusiasm. You need to remember how nuts everyone went when they found out they Bamboo leaf was airing for real. It was insane. You had explosive energy there that was untapped and it seemed practically infinite. Back then it seemed like the fandom would stay continually enthusiastic through out the new batch of episodes.

...now we stand on E8 #6 with prospects of going onto #7, and I frankly don't think people really care anymore. They'll still watch it, but there won't be any of that genuine enthusiasm for the entire affair. There will be a mini surge after E8 finally ends, but it won't balance out the huge wave we had with Bamboo Leaf.

Even if it turns out that all of the episodes we thought were gonna get animated due end up getting animated anyway (by dumping the airing of the S1 episodes), it won't change it. People will just nod off about how interesting the entire ploy was and go back to doing something else.

The season will make money sure...but it won't have the cultural stopping power the first one did.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Can't you only say hat the shark was jumped if all that happens after is also bad? The Second Season (you know, the real one) can still be good.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. People who don't know what's going to happen (those casual fans) might genuinely believe that the show has jumped the shark; time will tell if they'll be back. But people who do know what's coming (given especially the hints that have been left), should have no reason to doubt about what this is all leading to. This is why I'm rather surprised that more novel readers aren't just pitching this as a delay or a temporary setback because they should know that the best is yet to come. The world has been taken over by pessimists...

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If this was a lesser anime, I wouldn't be this upset. But this isn't a lesser anime - this is a flagship anime; an anime that became an internet culture phenomena; something with incredible long-term potential; something that even transcended anime itself to a certain degree. [...] Simply put, if handled right, this particular anime could have done loads of good for anime in general - it could have lifted the entire industry a la what Hulk Hogan did for pro wrestling in the 1980s - the potential that I strongly suspect has been lost forever is simply staggering.

So you're upset because, in your mind, this event will forever be seen a blight that prevents the franchise from ever achieving lasting greatness, even once they do return to the main story?

That's a very big worry for one single person. All that truly matters is, "do I enjoy this, or not". The rest follows naturally. But I say this as someone who is quite used to liking some very unpopular shows.

Originally Posted by Akka

Ressources aren't infinite (especially time), and each airing has only very limited time slots, so every week spend on wasting them, is actually permanently lost in a way ^^

Only if you believe that the damage is permanent. There's no reason to believe that these episodes are counting against some master quota of episodes they're going to devote to this show. There isn't some sort of great bargaining going on, like "oh, you spent 8 episodes on Endless Eight, so now that means only 2 episodes for Novel 4..." In that sense, I guess you could see resources an infinite, except for time which stretches further out. In other words, I think it's more like filler than anything else.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

The season will make money sure...but it won't have the cultural stopping power the first one did.

As a reality check, it sold well, but not that well. I don't know about "cultural stopping power". People tend to overstate the show's importance because they want to believe that it's an anime that changed the world... but it's still a little explosion on a remote corner of a distant moon... or something. If a Hollywood movie had the sort of returns the Haruhi anime had, it'd be seen as a colossal failure. Same with a major video game, even. It's all a matter of perspective, cost, and scale.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

The season will make money sure...but it won't have the cultural stopping power the first one did.

Exactly. Their fucking retarded shenanigans have killed Haruhi.

Which is why I wonder if that wasn't their intention.

As of October 15th, we can officially declare the entire franchise as "dead". At that point, I'll probably request the mods place this subforum in the "Retired" section, where it belongs.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Only if you believe that the damage is permanent. There's no reason to believe that these episodes are counting against some master quota of episodes they're going to devote to this show. There isn't some sort of great bargaining going on, like "oh, you spent 8 episodes on Endless Eight, so now that means only 2 episodes for Novel 4..." In that sense, I guess you could see resources an infinite, except for time which stretches further out. In other words, I think it's more like filler than anything else.

The number of arcs covered isn't necessarily something that has a quota. It may turn out that Kyoani will be providing far more than expected.

But that won't change the fact that most of the viewers interest by now is almost entirely casual.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Exactly. Their fucking retarded shenanigans have killed Haruhi.

Which is why I wonder if that wasn't their intention.

As of October 15th, we can officially declare the entire franchise as "dead". At that point, I'll probably request the mods place this subforum in the "Retired" section, where it belongs.

Ah crap I made Kaisos upset again

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

KyoAni is probably never going to make an FMP sequel. I have my doubts they even wanted to make a Haruhi sequel. They really don't seem to like sequels.

Maybe this is it. It's possible. Some companies just have a hard time with sequels.

This is why I'm pissed too.

Should mention that it's Kadokawa's fault. Animation companies have little say in what they animate.

Yeah, Kadokawa likely made a big blunder here.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is why I'm rather surprised that more novel readers aren't just pitching this as a delay or a temporary setback because they should know that the best is yet to come.

Three. Years.

Three years with no anime. Two with no new books.

We've all been waiting. Day in, day out. Waiting for more Haruhi.

And they give us this. And tell us nothing. Nothing at all.

Three. Fucking. Years.


If we had any sort of information at all, this wouldn't be a problem. But they're keeping us all in the dark, just like they have for the past three goddamn years.

That's why we're all so angry about this.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Ah crap I made Kaisos upset again

God I hate this arc.

I have other things I can channel my time into, but I still get angry when I think about what this COULD have been if the franchise owners weren't brainless invertebrates.

It's fine.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Only if you believe that the damage is permanent. There's no reason to believe that these episodes are counting against some master quota of episodes they're going to devote to this show. There isn't some sort of great bargaining going on, like "oh, you spent 8 episodes on Endless Eight, so now that means only 2 episodes for Novel 4..." In that sense, I guess you could see resources an infinite, except for time which stretches further out. In other words, I think it's more like filler than anything else.

It's not "permanent damage", but it's definitely "permanent missed occasion", if you see what I mean. It's still five (and counting) weeks where something good could have been made, and wasn't, and five parts of a season that weren't actually material. Perhaps not "you spend 8 ep on EE, so now that means only 2 ep for novel 4", but definitely "you spent 8 ep on EE, so now that means only 5 ep of actual story". Having only a half-season is pretty disheartening, especially when you see the wasted time and ressources vanishing before your eyes in real-time ^^