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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Episode 03 Rating
Perfect 10 13 19.70%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 43.94%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 24.24%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 10.61%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.52%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2015-10-18, 20:10   Link #121
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
A bit of a sideline, but can we make a Gundam without Earth or any Ground-type MS?
You’re basically asking for Macross show (bar the first SDF series), but maybe without the diva/idol shenanigans and much more grit .

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Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
The discussion about the relative morality of this series' protagonists versus previous Gundam protagonists reminds me of this dialogue.

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Originally Posted by Full Metal Panic: The Abridged Series, Episode 5
Kaname: So who are you anyways?
Sousuke: I'm a soldier from a secret mercenary group striving for world peace through hypocritically large amounts of violent force using mecha far more advanced than the rest of the world's.
Kaname: Celestial Being?
Sousuke: No, we're not nearly as big douchebags as them.
More like: "Our organization doesn’t have as many budget and resources as CB, so we can’t do what they can even if we want to." *sniff*
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:18   Link #122
Irenesharda
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I just realized that when talking with the accountant, we can see now that Orga, Eugene, Biscuit and that other guy can all read. They aren't very educated and probably can't do more than basic math, but at least they're all literate. I can see them getting taken advantage of several times over if they were trying to take over the business and none of them knew how to read.

Now if one of them could just teach Mika? But then maybe he just doesn't care? Orga knows how to read, that's enough for him.
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:21   Link #123
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It bears repeating. The writing so far is to be applauded. Nothing really comes off as stupid. I like that we see people sleep, eat and talk with each other. Characters are able to read the mood and situation and react accordingly.

I like how the action is quick paced, focused and somewhat chaotic without being long-winded and drawn-out.

I like how Kudelia changed her mind about the whole implant business after hearing about it and thinking more about it. I like that she's not stubborn. Her actions make sense.

I'm kind of hesitant at the moment. I'm kind of expecting the writing to fall apart later like most Gundams do, but I'm enjoying this show immensely at this time.
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:34   Link #124
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No, but there could be a situation that he has to choose between saving her or protecting nameless kid grunts, and he would order Mika to save her which Mika will rebel against. Mika's motivation isn't just "following Orga", it's protecting his friends and comrades of the team. He's like Crank, that's why the guy struck a chord with him when he told him what he did. However, Orga, in this episode, is starting to show bias toward Kudelia. This will certainly bring forth some kind of conflict.
If Orga picks Kudelia over comrade, it's perfectly fine. She Tekkadens client and she pay for lifes of these boys. They need money to survive and they need fight to get money and some of them dies in process. If he weren't willing put lifes of his comrades in stake, he would be never able to lead them in first place. Mika said it himself, they fight for their self even if better!Aina were cause he will not blame them.

That said, I don't think Orgas did it for Kudelia sake. Under all that pragmatism he might be surprisingly idealistic. Which shows a lot on fact he let members of group one (and even with all they stuff) go as well as his plan continue make money by "honest business". It might be just for sake of doing right thing or he might just felt that he doesn't want tarnish their group fresh start by something like this.

Well, I guess he is doesn't hate Kudelias guts, effort and determination to make a change, but if he decide follow her, it will not because some bias, but simply because he found her to be worthy of being followed.
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:39   Link #125
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About Mika and the bracelet. I don't think he knows Atra made it. We see Atra talk to the mechanic guy and asking him a favor, then we see Mika finding the bracelet inside Barbatos' cockpit.
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:43   Link #126
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
About Mika and the bracelet. I don't think he knows Atra made it. We see Atra talk to the mechanic guy and asking him a favor, then we see Mika finding the bracelet inside Barbatos' cockpit.
I think though he can deduce that its her
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Old 2015-10-18, 20:46   Link #127
Irenesharda
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About Mika and the bracelet. I don't think he knows Atra made it. We see Atra talk to the mechanic guy and asking him a favor, then we see Mika finding the bracelet inside Barbatos' cockpit.
I think he knows that no guy made it, and that's all that's at the base. We've seen that the guy is very observant and he's probably aware enough to know that Atra has the exact same bracelet just in another color. Also, considering how long it took her to hand make it, it probably smells like her.

I think he knows she's the only one who could have given it to him. There is no one else who would have except maybe Cookie and Cracker, and they would have presented it to him themselves in excitement.
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Old 2015-10-18, 21:44   Link #128
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Huh? Orga doesn't represent ambition. His goal is to have a place they could live well, iirc, so Kudelia, IMO, is kind of the embodiment for that aspiration. At least to Orga. Mika's goal is simply "gotta protect my pals." He's a lot more living by the day, while Orga thinks about the future.

I don't think Mika will have "revenge", it'll be just dispute drama before they can work their problems. This is speculating, of course, but I can't fathom why would he "chose" between Kudelia and Orga as you said.
If Orga's goal is to just have a place where they could 'live' well he wouldn't be sacrificing his men to save Kudelia. The thing is, these characters will change, especially since they're finally entering a new kind of world beyond just day to day fighting and surviving. Orga is very much a do whatever it takes to ensure his goals are met. Right now those goals are Mika and the rest of his comrades. He is perfectly willing to execute those that get in his way. He's not in it for any kind of grander purpose, at least that we know of. It's not going to be smooth sailing from here on out. He's going to be faced with more and more difficult decisions, and so far from what we know, it'll always take the one that's more pragmatic for his own comrades. The forces he'll be facing will be much stronger than just 3 grunt suits in the future. He's going to need more power to protect his comrades, and since no one is going to give it to him for free, he's going to need to take it himself. There is not status quo for him to cling to, he'll need to either move forward or watch his friends get slaughtered by the overwhelming power of the enemies.

Kudelia on the other hand is an idealist with a much grander dream. Even if the events of the first three episode have knocked her down to earth (or mars in this case heh) just a bit, her ideals and what she fights for is much greater than just day to day living. She's fighting for all the children of Mars. Her goals are currently aligned with Orga, but eventually she'll need to go her own way, and her method of doing things may or may not prove a problem to Orga.

Thematically Orga and Kudelia are the most opposed, with Mika having a very limited scope in terms of the beliefs he fights for. It doesn't seem very likely from a narrative standpoint to have Orga and Kudelia become one 'side' while Orga becomes the other. Not to mention it'd have to be something really drastic for Mika to oppose Orga. I mean Orga pretty much ordered most of their comrades to their deaths in episodes 1-2 but everyone followed his orders and nobody blames him. Mika even pointed out that everyone is sacrificing themselves for Kudelia but he doesn't blame Kudelia at all in episode 3.

The only way I see a schism forming between Orga and Mika is if Mika comes into his own set of ideals that's different from Orga's, and they decide to go down different paths. It'd have to be something a lot grander than 'protecting your friends', and the only other choice is Kudelia.
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Old 2015-10-18, 22:13   Link #129
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On a side note, I have to give a salute to Krank, a man who lived and died by his

principles. Hopefully, his death can allow Ein(if he becomes more integral to the

story) a chance to grow.
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Old 2015-10-18, 22:14   Link #130
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If Orga's goal is to just have a place where they could 'live' well he wouldn't be sacrificing his men to save Kudelia. The thing is, these characters will change, especially since they're finally entering a new kind of world beyond just day to day fighting and surviving. Orga is very much a do whatever it takes to ensure his goals are met. Right now those goals are Mika and the rest of his comrades. He is perfectly willing to execute those that get in his way. He's not in it for any kind of grander purpose, at least that we know of. It's not going to be smooth sailing from here on out. He's going to be faced with more and more difficult decisions, and so far from what we know, it'll always take the one that's more pragmatic for his own comrades. The forces he'll be facing will be much stronger than just 3 grunt suits in the future. He's going to need more power to protect his comrades, and since no one is going to give it to him for free, he's going to need to take it himself. There is not status quo for him to cling to, he'll need to either move forward or watch his friends get slaughtered by the overwhelming power of the enemies.

Kudelia on the other hand is an idealist with a much grander dream. Even if the events of the first three episode have knocked her down to earth (or mars in this case heh) just a bit, her ideals and what she fights for is much greater than just day to day living. She's fighting for all the children of Mars. Her goals are currently aligned with Orga, but eventually she'll need to go her own way, and her method of doing things may or may not prove a problem to Orga.

Thematically Orga and Kudelia are the most opposed, with Mika having a very limited scope in terms of the beliefs he fights for. It doesn't seem very likely from a narrative standpoint to have Orga and Kudelia become one 'side' while Orga becomes the other. Not to mention it'd have to be something really drastic for Mika to oppose Orga. I mean Orga pretty much ordered most of their comrades to their deaths in episodes 1-2 but everyone followed his orders and nobody blames him. Mika even pointed out that everyone is sacrificing themselves for Kudelia but he doesn't blame Kudelia at all in episode 3.

The only way I see a schism forming between Orga and Mika is if Mika comes into his own set of ideals that's different from Orga's, and they decide to go down different paths. It'd have to be something a lot grander than 'protecting your friends', and the only other choice is Kudelia.
Kudelia was an idealist. I think you're mistaken that with politician and Orga is the leader of her personal hired army. There's no difference between Kudelia and Orga after this episode. That was the point of their heart-to-heart and how she's realized that if she's going to pursue what she can do, she'll get children killed. And she's conscious she's using and probably getting children killed for the sake of her plans, and she still hired them to escort her. She has absolutely no problems with Orga's methods as far as we know. Don't you think she didn't notice how the adults 'vanished'? She's not that stupid. She witnessed Mika shooting down a guy in front of her and literally didn't give a damn. She's obviously changed her idealistic views and became pragmatic, that's exactly why she contract them again, knowing the results. She, who preached so much about my poor children, is hiring child soldiers to protect her. She's changed and became a more morally gray character, for the better. Do you remember she was even willing to get implants to fight and kill? What did you think she want to pilot a Gundam for? Obviously not to invite them to eat her meals.

If you want to guess which character could 'change' Mika about bloodshed, assuming that's what you're arguing about, there's enough foreshadowing that's gonna be Atra. Mika hid her charm behind his back when he shot Crank, as if he didn't want for Atra to 'witness' what he's doing, even indirectly. It's the only time Mika seemed a little awkward. Atra is gone from the base at the time all the drama happens, while Kudelia is there, fully approving, of Mika's actions. While Atra is the one getting associated with peaceful life (with bonus of those crops and fields of symbolism). Interestingly enough, Atra, not Kudelia or Orga, seems to be the one who reads and sees through Mika's mask and moods.

Both Orga and Kudelia are worshipful and admiring Mika's skills and actions. I frankly don't understand which "conflict" are you trying to push for Mika to "choose" (other than the alternative I proposed which could happen because Orga already had a small dispute with his men about Kudelia - Orga, not Mika). Because they are tightly aligned to each other. Orga even helped Kudelia to find her call again, encouraging her to follow through her actions.
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Old 2015-10-18, 22:39   Link #131
LightningZERO
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On a side note, I have to give a salute to Krank, a man who lived and died by his

principles. Hopefully, his death can allow Ein(if he becomes more integral to the

story) a chance to grow.
Or went off the deep end and to go crazy with revenge

I like that lots of people here calling that Mika being used by Orga (me included) but Mika straight up rejected said speculation in show and stated that he was not victimized or anything and just doing all these to protect his comrades.
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Old 2015-10-18, 22:50   Link #132
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Kudelia was an idealist. I think you're mistaken that with politician and Orga is the leader of her personal hired army. There's no difference between Kudelia and Orga after this episode. That was the point of their heart-to-heart and how she's realized that if she's going to pursue what she can do, she'll get children killed. And she's conscious she's using and probably getting children killed for the sake of her plans, and she still hired them to escort her. She has absolutely no problems with Orga's methods as far as we know. Don't you think she didn't notice how the adults 'vanished'? She's not that stupid. She witnessed Mika shooting down a guy in front of her and literally didn't give a damn. She's obviously changed her idealistic views and became pragmatic, that's exactly why she contract them again, knowing the results. She, who preached so much about my poor children, is hiring child soldiers to protect her. She's changed and became a more morally gray character, for the better. Do you remember she was even willing to get implants to fight and kill? What did you think she want to pilot a Gundam for? Obviously not to invite them to eat her meals.

If you want to guess which character could 'change' Mika about bloodshed, assuming that's what you're arguing about, there's enough foreshadowing that's gonna be Atra. Mika hid her charm behind his back when he shot Crank, as if he didn't want for Atra to 'witness' what he's doing, even indirectly. It's the only time Mika seemed a little awkward. Atra is gone from the base at the time all the drama happens, while Kudelia is there, fully approving, of Mika's actions. While Atra is the one getting associated with peaceful life (with bonus of those crops and fields of symbolism). Interestingly enough, Atra, not Kudelia or Orga, seems to be the one who reads and sees through Mika's mask and moods.

Both Orga and Kudelia are worshipful and admiring Mika's skills and actions. I frankly don't understand which "conflict" are you trying to push for Mika to "choose" (other than the alternative I proposed which could happen because Orga already had a small dispute with his men about Kudelia - Orga, not Mika). Because they are tightly aligned to each other. Orga even helped Kudelia to find her call again, encouraging her to follow through her actions.
I'm not talking about idealism in terms of pacifism or 'clean' methods. Kudelia has a grand vision. She wants Mars Independence and to save ALL the kids. She came to terms in that she now knows she has to get her hands dirty if she wants to achieve that. Orga, as far as we know, doesn't care about anything other than the comrades he's grown up and fought with. Right now they're undertaking her contract because they need the money. I mean, if given a choice would Orga continue to help Kudelia or take another job with less chance of getting all his men killed? At some point they're going to split if Orga doesn't come to believe in Kudelia's cause. Even if circumstances forces Orga to stay with Kudelia if he doesn't come to believe in her cause would he be content to let things be? Wouldn't he take the first opportunity that presents itself to make a choice that benefits his comrades more? The split between Orga and Kudelia is inevitable if Orga doesn't change.

Mika goes along with Orga because he trusts Orga, but also because he doesn't have any grand plans of his own. He seems content just continuing the space mercenary business with Orga. If there was going to be a split between though, it'd be an idealogical split where Mika does not see himself continuing down the path with Orga. Even if he's motivated by Atra, Kudelia is the only one that offers him a different path via her vision of a independent Mars.

If Orga willingly follows Kudelia I really don't see any split at all. But given that we have 2 protagonists here, one with a strong will to lead and one that follows, if there's a split it'd come from Mika's growing independence and his own path that diverges from Orga's.
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Old 2015-10-18, 23:19   Link #133
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I'm not talking about idealism in terms of pacifism or 'clean' methods. Kudelia has a grand vision. She wants Mars Independence and to save ALL the kids. She came to terms in that she now knows she has to get her hands dirty if she wants to achieve that. Orga, as far as we know, doesn't care about anything other than the comrades he's grown up and fought with. Right now they're undertaking her contract because they need the money. I mean, if given a choice would Orga continue to help Kudelia or take another job with less chance of getting all his men killed? At some point they're going to split if Orga doesn't come to believe in Kudelia's cause. Even if circumstances forces Orga to stay with Kudelia if he doesn't come to believe in her cause would he be content to let things be? Wouldn't he take the first opportunity that presents itself to make a choice that benefits his comrades more? The split between Orga and Kudelia is inevitable if Orga doesn't change.
I don't think Mika would ever give a crap about Kudelia's cause unless Atra or Orga talks to him about it. This sounds absolutely far-fetched and hilarious, IMO, in how he's been portrayed so far. Orga is more than likely than Mika to give a damn about her vision because he's the one listening to her rather than telling her she's stupid and should get the hell out his face as Mika does. I think I'm grateful for the show realism because Mika acts like a child soldier, not just as a soldier who happens to be young. His cognitive and maturity aren't attuned to hear grand speeches or care about it.

This has nothing to do with Orga. The Crank thing was on him and only on him in the end. Orga meanwhile listens to her, communicates and encourages/supports her even before she hired him. He acted like her confidant and advisor. Orga protected Kudelia before the contract was established, twice. Did you conveniently forget this? You don't even know if he follows or likes her ideals or not, but so far he seems to respect her a lot when they talked and he gave her guidance (while Mika doesn't). Orga, not Mika, seems to be the one who would back up Kudelia.

I'm not sure where you're getting this "they are thematically opposites" vibe from. Kudelia's not even a hugely important character to stand up next to Orga, she and Atra rank pretty low in the cast list (next to each other actually).

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Mika goes along with Orga because he trusts Orga, but also because he doesn't have any grand plans of his own. He seems content just continuing the space mercenary business with Orga. If there was going to be a split between though, it'd be an idealogical split where Mika does not see himself continuing down the path with Orga. Even if he's motivated by Atra, Kudelia is the only one that offers him a different path via her vision of a independent Mars.
Kudelia wants him to keep being a space mercenary, she even praises his strength and finds that inspiring. She has no intention to offer him "an alternative path." She even hired him to keep doing his job. Please give me where are you taking this idea from her lofty ideals in her actions? She hired child soldiers and she's exploiting them. That was her moral dilemma in this episode. I kind of love her for it.

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If Orga willingly follows Kudelia I really don't see any split at all. But given that we have 2 protagonists here, one with a strong will to lead and one that follows, if there's a split it'd come from Mika's growing independence and his own path that diverges from Orga's.
Uhh I don't think Mika is as dependant as you think (I think many are blowing out this out proportion). He only follows Orga because he's got the plan. But Orga immediately says that if Mika doesn't want to do something, he'll drop it. He's just as dependent as Mika. It's a brawn-brains troupe. Mika took his own decisions and expresses it loudly for Crank. It was he who decided Crank would die too.

Orga is taking a role of ship leader and captain in the opening, the protagonists roles do not overlap when they are obviously having different skillsets:

Orga: leadership, strategic thinking.
Mika: prodigy pilot.

Let's include the heroines:
Kudelia: political connections+money. She's not a leader in the battlefield, she's a political figure, so she doesn't "overlap" or "oppose" to Orga thematically at all, they are complimentary, IMO.
Atra: Mika's "morality chain."
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Old 2015-10-18, 23:53   Link #134
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I was waiting for a main protagonist like Mika since a good while. I am happy really happy with this Gundam show.
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Old 2015-10-19, 00:02   Link #135
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I like Mika's reaction to hide the bracelet while he kills which may mean he doesn't want Atra to see how he's 'tainted' and she being 'pure' deserves better or is afraid of her rejection if she witness what he does.

Or maybe I am thinking too hard about this and he just doesn't want it dirty.

Also I don't think it has been mentioned yet but Kudelia is now an orphan herself. Her having just tosses her to the wolves having no where else to go or anyone to relay on. She just like the rest of the group now.

Edit: one thing I've been reading a lot are the complaints of how could Mika and the kids kill line this in cold blood. I think many have forgotten that this PMC had trained these kids to be killers. Think about what that means for theor emotional and psychological development and it becomes clear why many of the older kids don't even flinch at the thought of killing.
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Old 2015-10-19, 00:35   Link #136
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I like Mika's reaction to hide the bracelet while he kills which may mean he doesn't want Atra to see how he's 'tainted' and she being 'pure' deserves better or is afraid of her rejection if she witness what he does.

Or maybe I am thinking too hard about this and he just doesn't want it dirty.
No, I think you're right on the money about this, and I think so too. If he knows it's from Atra (and I'm sure he does), he probably sees her as this one person he cherishes who is untainted from this world and wants to keep her that way, which would no doubt bring some drama. Maybe that field of corn seems associated with her too, I could be wrong, I'm just speculating by the ending and the preview. This is a nice shot:



Kudelia and Orga, meanwhile, witness his violence without batting an eyelash.
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Old 2015-10-19, 01:47   Link #137
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Wow, that's just one heck of an episode.
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Old 2015-10-19, 03:53   Link #138
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I want to remind all the long-time Gundam Franchise fans in this thread... our normal Spoiler Rules apply in these threads, and that means that any reference to any other Gundam show -- even if aired who knows how long ago -- has to be behind a properly-labelled spoiler tag (that identifies the show you're comparing to). You can't just go talking about this and that plot point from other past shows in the clear. Failure to use spoiler tags for these sorts of comparisons is no different than any other spoiler policy violation, and can result in bans. A bunch of posts were removed.
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Old 2015-10-19, 03:54   Link #139
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"Thank-"BLAM BLAM BLAM! Damn Mika, let the guy finish lol.

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snip
I agree with this, although Mika did jump the gun a bit and said he'd do whatever Orga asked him to do in the previous episode before Orga'd even finished making the request. So far, everything Orga's wanted Mika to do weren't exactly hardly decisions. The guys that Mika offed were jerks and abandoned their friends. Crank was partly responsible for the deaths of his friends, though Crank was quite sympathetic.
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Old 2015-10-19, 07:10   Link #140
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although Mika did jump the gun a bit and said he'd do whatever Orga asked him to do in the previous episode before Orga'd even finished making the request.
A lot of people interpreted that as a sign of Mika's passiveness, but I personally considered it a sign of his perceptiveness. I think he knew exactly what Orga was thinking.
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