Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[blackwhite67]

Thanks and I just found the spoiler. WOW. I never would have believed that Manami could be capable of something like this.

[Shadow5YA]

I'm not sure I quite understand Manami's motivation.

I understand that Kirino may have had feelings for Kyousuke, possibly incestuous feelings. It is easy to extrapolate that from all her tsundere acts and her taste in imouto eroge. However, throughout the entire course of the series I never saw any implication that Kyousuke liked or used to like Kirino in the same way.

What exactly is Manami trying to prevent?

Spoiler for their history:

If she is trying to keep the Kousaka siblings from having an incestuous relationship, does she really need to mold Kyousuke's personality to accomplish that?
Even despite Kirino's affection for a more proactive Kyousuke, I don't see any signs that he would have returned her feelings back then, whether he himself was an outstanding person or not.

Is preventing incest all that Manami wants to accomplish, or is she after something more than that?

[iCK]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I'm not sure I quite understand Manami's motivation.

I understand that Kirino may have had feelings for Kyousuke, possibly incestuous feelings. It is easy to extrapolate that from all her tsundere acts and her taste in imouto eroge. However, throughout the entire course of the series I never saw any implication that Kyousuke liked or used to like Kirino in the same way.

What exactly is Manami trying to prevent?

Spoiler for their history:

If she is trying to keep the Kousaka siblings from having an incestuous relationship, does she really need to mold Kyousuke's personality to accomplish that?
Even despite Kirino's affection for a more proactive Kyousuke, I don't see any signs that he would have returned her feelings back then, whether he himself was an outstanding person or not.

Is preventing incest all that Manami wants to accomplish, or is she after something more than that?

It is obvious that you have never read the light novels then. Kyosuke does have siscon feelings for Kirino................

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I'm not sure I quite understand Manami's motivation.

I understand that Kirino may have had feelings for Kyousuke, possibly incestuous feelings. It is easy to extrapolate that from all her tsundere acts and her taste in imouto eroge. However, throughout the entire course of the series I never saw any implication that Kyousuke liked or used to like Kirino in the same way.

What exactly is Manami trying to prevent?

Spoiler for their history:

If she is trying to keep the Kousaka siblings from having an incestuous relationship, does she really need to mold Kyousuke's personality to accomplish that?
Even despite Kirino's affection for a more proactive Kyousuke, I don't see any signs that he would have returned her feelings back then, whether he himself was an outstanding person or not.

Is preventing incest all that Manami wants to accomplish, or is she after something more than that?

Spoiler for Volume 11:

Well, I think it depends on your point of view. I think there are two points:

a) Manami lets Kirino know that her brother isn't special, that her feelings aren't normal, and that she should give up her feelings towards him and just see him like a regular brother.

b) Manami lets Kyousuke know that he's not special, and he should give up all attempts and pretences of being extraordinary and seek the normal life (where he won't get hurt).

The two events are separate, but they reinforce each other. Kirino is the one person closest to Kyousuke most likely to encourage him to revert to his former personality (the one she, Kirino, adored). So by convincing Kyousuke to hide in a shell and settle for mediocrity, and convincing Kirino that the "super brother" she loved doesn't exist, we basically get the Kyousuke and the "cold war" we all know at the start of the show.

Whether you consider Manami's advice good or bad depends on your perspective. But, there is one consequence to Manami's advice. We know pretty clearly that Manami has feelings for Kyousuke too. A normal Kyousuke is a lot more likely to find more in common with the "Queen of Normal". Did Manami do all this really because she was just looking out for Kirino and Kyousuke's well-being (and the fact that it resulted in a 2 year cold war between them was an unfortunate but necessary consequence), or was this a way of trying to keep Kyousuke to herself (not letting the "extraordinary Kyousuke" go too far out of reach)?

Keep in mind that the novels revolve primarily around Kyousuke and Kirino, and the wall between them is portrayed to be a bad thing and the central obstacle they need to overcome. So, because it turns out now that Manami was at the center of that obstacle, she will inevitably be seen as the "bad guy", even if her motivations weren't entirely evil. But, by the same token, the novel is implying that her motivations aren't entirely pure either, particularly now that she's come right out and stated that she intends to get in Kirino's way. She can't exactly claim to be an entirely neutral third party because she's in love with Kyousuke too.


...But that aside, yeah... I don't think anyone can really argue that Kyousuke hasn't shown any signs of having feelings for Kirino by now (although I thought it was fairly clear even in the anime, personally). But I don't think that necessarily means he had feelings for her in the past when Manami made her statements, so preventing an actual incestual relationship probably wasn't something she really thought would happen. You could even say that she was trying to look out for Kirino's well being... but Kyousuke being more normal, and not getting too close to his sister, so happened to coincide with the path she wanted him to take as well.

[Saito123]

Is there a summary for volumes 6 and onwards, the search tool doesn't exist for this thread, and I don't really want to spoil anything for me, like reading, what happens in volume 8 or 9, if not, can somebody tell me a link for it?

[s0beit]

Originally Posted by Saito123

Is there a summary for volumes 6 and onwards, the search tool doesn't exist for this thread, and I don't really want to spoil anything for me, like reading, what happens in volume 8 or 9, if not, can somebody tell me a link for it?

I've only found translations up to 4.3 and summaries 8+.

[GVN.Chaos]

Originally Posted by Saito123

Is there a summary for volumes 6 and onwards, the search tool doesn't exist for this thread, and I don't really want to spoil anything for me, like reading, what happens in volume 8 or 9, if not, can somebody tell me a link for it?

You can find them on seanver's blog wordpress. There is summary for vol 1- vol 8 there. The rest should be on C.E translation's website. If you still can't find them, pm me.

[Korsar13]

volume 6 in russian, (fb2)

[Saito123]

Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos

You can find them on seanver's blog wordpress. There is summary for vol 1- vol 8 there. The rest should be on C.E translation's website. If you still can't find them, pm me.

I did end up finding summaries, but from a comment of the summary of volume 6, but sombody mentioned, that there are some mayor stuff missing, about the part of Kirinos rival coming to japan to beat her at a race, the part where kyousuke announces he’s a siscon and the part where kirino ask him to be her boyfriend?

[GVN.Chaos]

Originally Posted by Saito123

I did end up finding summaries, but from a comment of the summary of volume 6, but sombody mentioned, that there are some mayor stuff missing, about the part of Kirinos rival coming to japan to beat her at a race, the part where kyousuke announces he’s a siscon and the part where kirino ask him to be her boyfriend?

Hmm...I'm not sure about that. Guess you have to wait for BT to translate them then.

[type-R!]

After all the news of the new volume I rewatched some of the animated commentaries from the blu-rays, and some very interesting things were mentioned in two of them:

Spoiler for from the animated commentaries:

For the commentary for episode 11 with Ayase and Kyousuke, they talk about Kirino's reason for hating Manami. One can infer from Ayase's dialogue that she is trying to show Kyousuke who Manami really is (not necesarily evil but not completely innocent either). Of course at that time it was difficult to take it seriously, but now with the events of this volume most of it makes sense. This could somehow confirm that Fushimi had most of the events in the novel planned well in advance. (Doesn't necesarily mean that he hasn't changed anything at all since.)

And even more interesting, in the commentary for episode 12 'good end', Kirino tells Kyousuke that she didn't leave for America because she didn't see her dream come true yet, and also says that it is Kyousuke's fault (as expected lol)
I know this is an alternate scenatio but still, what Kirino says is very important.
I think it is safe to take that statement as somehow canon now, and also note that Kirino is leaving again after she graduates (notice the connection there) There could be a number of possibilities as for what her dream could be, but now I'm inclined to believe that there are only two:

1. Kyousuke comes back to his old self (or more like to his 'real self' for Kirino), which would let Kirino leave the country happily (and would also leave Kyousuke ready to confess to any of the other girls) or

2. Kirino's attraction to Kyousuke is 100% real (although it seems that it was already real when she was younger) and her dream is simply to become more than siblings.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for Volume 11:

...But that aside, yeah... I don't think anyone can really argue that Kyousuke hasn't shown any signs of having feelings for Kirino by now (although I thought it was fairly clear even in the anime, personally). But I don't think that necessarily means he had feelings for her in the past when Manami made her statements, so preventing an actual incestual relationship probably wasn't something she really thought would happen. You could even say that she was trying to look out for Kirino's well being... but Kyousuke being more normal, and not getting too close to his sister, so happened to coincide with the path she wanted him to take as well.

I never saw Kyousuke's feelings as on the same level as Kirino's. Even when he opposed their father to get his approval on Kirino's eroge or when he was missing her as she was in America, I never really felt that was incestuous. Is it not possible for him to be a doting older brother without the intimate romance?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I never saw Kyousuke's feelings as on the same level as Kirino's. Even when he opposed their father to get his approval on Kirino's eroge or when he was missing her as she was in America, I never really felt that was incestuous. Is it not possible for him to be a doting older brother without the intimate romance?

I'm not necessarily prepared to judge what's possible, but I never felt that was what they were intimating in this story based on the characterization and the way the plot was presented. The subsequent volumes of the novel add further weight to this view; there is certainly a sexual tension there that goes far beyond what you'd normally see between normal siblings. Now, whether he intends to go through with anything... who knows. If he did, there would certainly be no end to the trouble caused. But certainly Kirino is the most important woman in his life right now, and he sees her as an attractive woman as well as as his younger sister. Kirino's gotten close enough to him that she addresses him by first name, and not even "Aniki" anymore. How all this gets resolved is to be determined in the final volume, but I don't think we can really argue that "he only ever saw her as a regular little sister" in this story.

[GVN.Chaos]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I never saw Kyousuke's feelings as on the same level as Kirino's. Even when he opposed their father to get his approval on Kirino's eroge or when he was missing her as she was in America, I never really felt that was incestuous. Is it not possible for him to be a doting older brother without the intimate romance?

Nah, he got jealous when Kirino brings her fake boyfriend home . He is not just a doting older brother anymore.

[Sumeragi]

I wouldn't call that jealous: It's closer to the doting onii-chan than anything else. Heck, I was probably even worse when I met my otoutos' girlfriends.

[Philos]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I never saw Kyousuke's feelings as on the same level as Kirino's. Even when he opposed their father to get his approval on Kirino's eroge or when he was missing her as she was in America, I never really felt that was incestuous. Is it not possible for him to be a doting older brother without the intimate romance?

Just like my thought. I think his feeling is only a siscon thing, not incest. And siscon doesn't have to be incest every time. It may lead to incest but is not incest. Unlike Kirino who clearly love him as a man, not her brother.

[blade82]

whose the girl in your avatar Philos

[iCK]

Originally Posted by blade82

whose the girl in your avatar Philos

That is an even younger Kirino and a very young Kyosuke.

[Sumeragi]

A comment I received about the following post:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

It's not that twisted.

Spoiler for Method:

Manami likes "normality", and since Kyousuke was the extraordinary model student, she wanted him to become just your boring average boy. She told Kyousuke that he should live "normally" after an incident that shook him to the very core (related to the new character), and that basically tamed Kyousuke.

Here's a post which analyzes Manami more.

Spoiler for Comment:

Or maybe she realizes he was hurting himself by trying too hard and tried to get him to slow down?

Well, about that:

Spoiler for Reply:

What Manami did was consistent over a long period of time before the event, so I can't see it in that good a light, given Kyousuke was doing things pretty well until a certain incident that completely crushed his spirits.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Philos

Just like my thought. I think his feeling is only a siscon thing, not incest. And siscon doesn't have to be incest every time. It may lead to incest but is not incest. Unlike Kirino who clearly love him as a man, not her brother.

Well, are you talking about feelings, or likelihood to put those feelings into action?

The only real difference between Kirino and Kyousuke is that Kirino really only has eyes for one man: Kyousuke. Meanwhile, Kyousuke has lots of different women vying for his affection, and he's been shown to be attracted to many of them. So, no matter what less-than-pure feelings Kyousuke may harbour for Kirino, his likelihood of actually doing anything about it is automatically less. And as long as he doesn't actually do anything about it, it could be largely passed off as him just being a really severe siscon, and that they're just "really, really close siblings". (It all depends on where you draw the line. Personally, I draw the line a little further back than others do, it seems.)

The only person who would have to deal with the consequence of that is whoever Kyousuke's partner ends up being, because they'd have to understand the pedestal Kyousuke places Kirino on, and that they'd potentially always feel like they were competing with Kirino for Kyousuke's affection. We see this very thing shown in Ruri's arc, in fact. Anyone who goes out with Kyousuke has to basically understand that Kirino (and Kyousuke's affection towards her) is pretty much part of the deal; luckily both Ayase and Ruri seem to understand this.