2012-06-25, 01:17 | Link #29281 |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
|
That's it in a nutshell. I've seen everything he's released, so if there are any questions I can summarize his solutions and explanations for the various twilights, the logic error, the love duel, Will's answers, etc. |
2012-06-25, 01:38 | Link #29282 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Battler knows about Sakutaro because he obtained Ange's memories when she died in EP4:
Quote:
|
|
2012-06-25, 01:47 | Link #29283 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
Quote:
That seems to contradict his very motive, unless he did so on the spur of the moment after a quarrel or it was an accident. Besides why would he care to make it look like a closed room at that point? It's not like that could have happened while Shannon was sitting in front of a dresser. Why George would place her there? And why would he choose to die in that slow and horrible way? Didn't he know that nobody is stupid enough to commit seppuku without a "helper" ready with a katana behind you? And of course this just assumes that the explanation that Ryuukishi provided directly isn't relevant. In other words this is a prime example of "death of the author" interpretation.
__________________
|
||
2012-06-25, 02:20 | Link #29284 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
|
here are the 9 hours video, it start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHMta4YbjSM Is amazing how deep he goes to defend his theory even quoting interviews in which r7 practically confirms shkannon and disapproves all that he says but even that he explained absolutely everything, twilight by twilligt how why who ALL, although i don't agree with him is was very entertaining to see some of his videos, i haven't see ANY fan to give away so much time to explain everything. Thats the main reason why i don't like it, he even believe that everything r7 said in the interviews are tramps to misguide the readers and i believe everything r7 said in the interviews. |
2012-06-25, 04:45 | Link #29286 | ||||
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
|
Quote:
If Yasu seemed far-fetched to most readers, then what would this.....In the first place, why the hell would Rosa want Battler's acknowldegment? I had watched the video in question some time ago, so pardon me if I'm wrong, but I think he argued that Rosa doesn't have romantic interest in Battler, but wants him to acknowledge her as a human being. I mean WTF man? Why would Rosa even.......care? Quote:
Quote:
There are many people, in this forum specifically, who have managed to put forward many theories, no less realistic than KnownNoMore's, in less than one page and without being 100% sure about something that's never going to get confirmed. Let's take Jan-Poo's missing candy theory for example. Of course, this was a joke theory and all, but it was fully supported as well as an actual theory would need to be, making much better use of our precious time. Why couldn't that guy do the same? Obviously because the nine hours have more prestige and plausibility. Bottom line is, making a nine hour video analysis about a visual novel (even if it is DA UMINEKO) somehow seems to me like what a sore loser would do. Quote:
__________________
|
||||
2012-06-25, 04:52 | Link #29287 | |||
Senior Member
|
What bothers me about the Rosa/George theory is that it basically stumbles at two places.
Quote:
Quote:
Rosa basically tells us that there is someone named Beatrice on the island with whom she had at least some contact during those two days and who she is angry at for apparently not showing up at an appointed time or place. And what about the escape with Maria? Is this all just due to "the crazies"? Quote:
The scenes in 1998 are not necessarily fictional depictions given to the people of 1998 by an author, but given to us by an author. There are so many narrative layers in Umineko that saying "it's fictional therefore it does not count towards the character" is the wrong approach I'd say. Rosa is actually the best character to show this. We have two completely conflicting ways of depictions depending on who is telling and when we are told about it. This does not make one depiction a lie, we simply have to count together the different instances and create a bigger picture from it. Rosa is the woman who went crazy over finding the gold, the woman who wanted to sacrifice herself for her daughter, the woman who hated her daughter, the woman who loved her daughter...everything. It's basically a little bit of EP3-4 Battler combined with Erika |
|||
2012-06-25, 05:39 | Link #29288 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
|
You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear people who disagree with the Rosa/George Theory. I have gone against so many people who defended this theory while I defended mine and finally people who I can agree with. I love this forum so much. I've hated the theory since I first found out about it because he didn't seem to understand the Red. It is not mean't to be taken at face value. It is mean't to be bent and try to make sense of what it means. I do however believe in ShKanon and I don't really know how people feel about it but I will defend it till the day I die.
To Driftloon. We were talking about the Prime world not the fictional world.
__________________
|
2012-06-25, 06:35 | Link #29289 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
I don't mean to say that Knownomore is a con artist or that he even consciously used the same underhanded technique to make his point (I don't know). But the use of fact bombing and prolongued rhetoric with redundant repetions, introductions and selective quotations are all things that are abundantly used by the aforementioned people. It's a very well known strategy.
__________________
|
|
2012-06-25, 07:02 | Link #29290 |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
|
I don't think he's using any of those techniques (consciously, at least), he's just trying way too hard to sound cool, using diagrams, pictures and stuff. But what you're saying is very interesting, since the way he puts it make him look an awful lot like a conspiracy theorist, but I guess he actually is one since he's exposing the dark conspiracy of Ryukishi07's deception, finally baring him in front of the world for the evil puppet muster he really is, *cacklecackle*.
Oh, but in the beggining of his nine hour analysis he promises (or threatens?) to upload a religion/atheist video very soon, so...stay tunned. The guy has also uploaded a video called 'Denying the desirability of religion'. I mean, okay man, we get it, you're very smart and you've got a great outlook in life, stop trying to shove it down everyone else's ass through YouTube.
__________________
|
2012-06-25, 07:35 | Link #29291 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2012-06-25, 10:24 | Link #29292 | |||||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
|
Quote:
1) The first is really awful- Shannon ended up learning about what George was doing and they got into a struggle (which George didn't want, obviously), killing each other simultaneously (with letter openers!). 2) The second is just like the first, except that George won the fight and killed Shannon (again, not what he wanted, and again, with a letter opener to the skull) then tried to fake his own death by faking the wound and using a "fake death drug", except that Rosa had already arranged for that drug to be poisoned so he actually died. 3) The third possibility is that Rosa actually committed the murders herself. When Genji knocked, it woke Battler from a nap, so it's possible Rosa, who had all the master keys, was off murdering while Battler was asleep. Best of the three, but it still doesn't jive well with what Will said. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Really? I never thought he had that many supporters. Where are they? |
|||||
2012-06-25, 12:31 | Link #29293 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
|
Youtube mainly like whenever I post anything even remotely ShKanon I always get one of his supporters saying to me "SHKANON ISNT RAEL IT IS A LIE BY RYUKUSHI07 DUMBASSSSSSSSSSS!!! JST WATCH KNOWNOMORES VID TO NOW TRUTH!!!" of course I am exaggerating this but you get the point. I just really hate people telling me my theory is wrong when they never even took the time to actually make a theory and just blindly obeyed someone telling them what the answer so they are huge hypocrites.
__________________
|
2012-06-25, 12:37 | Link #29294 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise this guy really is like Erika. He can't handle just proposing his own theory and letting the Shkanon believers keep theirs, he has to actually say that Shkanon is a lie and present "evidence" for it (none of which actually disproves it in a convincing way, and all of which is approximately as twisted as Erika's Natsuhi culprit arguments). And from what I understand, his videos on religion are more or less equivalent to Erika crushing Maria's dreams in the name of truth. |
|
2012-06-25, 13:09 | Link #29295 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 32
|
I'm going over theories, Ryu's answer, EPs, etc... and there's something I don't understand about the shkanon theory.
*I'll treat Yasu as a male for now.. instead of writing he\she everytime (lazy... lol). one day Yasu 'created' the shannon personality on 1976 (the year he arrived at the mansion and started working). I guess that on some point, when he wanted the Shannon personality to actually 'interact' with other people, he also changed his looks and not just used the name Shannon. Then the thing I don't get is - what, since then, everyone who lived in 1976 and knew Yasu as Yasu (e.g. Genji and more servants) just forgot about that kid ever existing? like, *poof* he just disappeared and there's a Shannon girl in the mansion? Something doesn't make sense to me... Maybe there's something I just didn't get right. anyone?
__________________
|
2012-06-25, 13:20 | Link #29296 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
|
Yeah, I'm sorry, but once you start arguing about religion you become nothing but a douche just trying to pick a fight. And yes, I have started seeing the "You are wrong, watch KnownNoMore!" people.
We can all build our own theories. We can all disagree with each other for various reasons. We are also allowed to feel some degree of certainty in our theories. But since that certainty can never be 100%, we can't take a "my way or you're dumb" approach in arguing it. Also, the post above is something I've struggled with too. I think Kumasawa and Genji may have been "playing along", but as far as the rest go... maybe they were fooled like Battler was fooled into thinking they were two different people.
__________________
|
2012-06-25, 13:22 | Link #29297 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-06-25, 13:27 | Link #29298 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
|
Quote:
I tend to think that Yasu's real name was "Sayo Yasuda" with the blessed name of "Shannon". We learned that Shannon's (first) name was Sayo, in EP2 I think, and in EP7 we learned that Yasu's name was really a nickname from shortening her last name of "Yasuda" to "Yasu". Basically, I tend to think that to the rest of the world "Yasu" and "Shannon" really are just two different names for the same person. "Shannon" to the young Yasu, though, was an ideal person she strived to be, and one day decided to let her human self become, while letting her Yasu self become a witch. But, again, to the outside observer it was always the same person (who perhaps just started to suddenly stop being so clumsy). |
|
2012-06-25, 13:44 | Link #29300 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 32
|
Quote:
But how come people just completely stopped calling her Yasu one day? the scenes from 1976 showed that sometimes they called him by the name Yasu (if I remember correctly...), but on 1986 no one refers to her even *once* as Yasu. as if there's no trace for the name (which makes you doubt whether they are really connected).
__________________
|
|
|
|