Dragon Ball Z Kai Majin Buu Saga

[ultimate_noob]

Announcement from V JUMP magazine. Will replace Toriko timeslot.



Offtopic: Did the toriko anime catch up with the manga? I'm not watching it at the moment.

[GDB]

Oh, so they changed their minds then? At one time they were saying they were only going to release it on BD/DVD and not air it on TV in Japan.

[hamazura]

yea toriko catch up with manga, its near transition into next big main arc

[Peanutbutter]

Will someone take over the BGM or will they be using the old ones?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

Will someone take over the BGM or will they be using the old ones?

That's a good question. After the Kenji Yamamoto fiasco I wonder what they'll do with the soundtrack. I have to say that, plagiarized or not, his score for DB Kai was pretty good.

[FlareKnight]

Wow this is actually going to happen .

I kind of thought Kai was going to avoid the silly points that came with the Majin Buu saga.

Oh well, Kai was enjoyable so will certainly check it out.

[Nvis]

Well this is surprising.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

This is rather painful IMO the majin buu story was rather horrible overall and Kai wont make it better.

[Archon_Wing]

Buu is definitely one of the worst DBZ arcs. Ever since near the end of Cell (hey look let's endanger the world so we can have a good fight... fucking Goku), Toriyama sent me the vibe "I don't want to do this shit anymore! Shoot me already!"

The main problems is they pretty much wrecked Gohan as a cool character, turned Vegeta into nonsense, and introduced Super Saiyan Vista. Also, Kaioshin is one of the most useless and wimpy characters who the writers shoved in our faces to make us like him.

It was already plodding and just really silly. While characters like Mr Satan are funny, shoving them constantly into an action based series is just annoying. I'm afraid there's little they can really do without being really creative. It was pretty trash in the manga, and the manga is like 5x better than the anime-- so I'm not even using the "it takes over 9000 episodes for Goku to take a shit" card.

[T-6000]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Buu is definitely one of the worst DBZ arcs. Ever since near the end of Cell (hey look let's endanger the world so we can have a good fight... fucking Goku), Toriyama sent me the vibe "I don't want to do this shit anymore! Shoot me already!"

The main problems is they pretty much wrecked Gohan as a cool character, turned Vegeta into nonsense, and introduced Super Saiyan Vista. Also, Kaioshin is one of the most useless and wimpy characters who the writers shoved in our faces to make us like him.

It was already plodding and just really silly. While characters like Mr Satan are funny, shoving them constantly into an action based series is just annoying. I'm afraid there's little they can really do without being really creative. It was pretty trash in the manga, and the manga is like 5x better than the anime-- so I'm not even using the "it takes over 9000 episodes for Goku to take a shit" card.

Oh yes, the Majin Buu series was the low point of the DBZ series. Hell, when it was aired on Cartoon Network (the Dubbed version) for the first time I couldn't finish it. There were a few reasons I didn't finish it (such as the DBZ series dragging on so much it got.....tiring) but the two main reasons were Goku's arrogance made me want to kill him and the terrible treatment of Goten by both his "supposed" friend (the apple sure doesn't ^%$#@!# fall far from the rotten tree) but also his own mother! A good mother always treats all of her kids with equal love, but it was pretty clear that she favored Gohan alot more than Goten. My other gripes with the Buu series is that the long line of jokes involving Satan got tiring after the Cell saga (ok we get it, he's a Fraud! What's next, you'll be telling me why the skeleton didn't cross the road for the millionth time?!), Satan's daughter got on my nerves with her arrogance (seriously, she is *NOT* a good match for Gohan!), Krillin should have stayed dead (as well as his "wife"), Gohan was set up to be the new hero of the DBZ series until at the last minute where Goku took that spot from him (That whole sub-plot of Gohan having his "true powers" unlocked just went out the window, and was a waste of time!), and all the typical cliches of the DBZ universe was there and then some (and thus tiring). The whole thing just felt......tiring. I think the series should have ended at the end of the Frieza saga, it would have been a great way to end the franchise. Hell I'd forgive Toryama if he stretched it into the Cell saga, but the Majin Buu series was unneeded. Hell, don't get me started on that abomination I'd like to call Dragonball GT ( I can't believe I wanted this thing to come to the states all those years ago!).

Sorry about the long wall of text comprised of unorganized rantings, I have alot of say about the Majin Buu series. DBZ should have ended at the end of Namek and there should have been only 3, maybe 4 movies instead of the dozen movies and TV specials we got. The series just....annoys me now, which is why I never bothered watching the latest DBZ movie (the one that came out last year. Seriously, is it really any good?). Last year Screwattack's Death battle pitted Superman and Goku in a battle of pure strength. They should have had both warriors compete as to who was the most annoying.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Arc quality for Dragonball Z: Frieza > Saiyan > Cell >> The rest.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by T-6000

Oh yes, the Majin Buu series was the low point of the DBZ series. Hell, when it was aired on Cartoon Network (the Dubbed version) for the first time I couldn't finish it. There were a few reasons I didn't finish it (such as the DBZ series dragging on so much it got.....tiring) but the two main reasons were Goku's arrogance made me want to kill him and the terrible treatment of Goten by both his "supposed" friend (the apple sure doesn't ^%$#@!# fall far from the rotten tree) but also his own mother! A good mother always treats all of her kids with equal love, but it was pretty clear that she favored Gohan alot more than Goten. My other gripes with the Buu series is that the long line of jokes involving Satan got tiring after the Cell saga (ok we get it, he's a Fraud! What's next, you'll be telling me why the skeleton didn't cross the road for the millionth time?!), Satan's daughter got on my nerves with her arrogance (seriously, she is *NOT* a good match for Gohan!), Krillin should have stayed dead (as well as his "wife"), Gohan was set up to be the new hero of the DBZ series until at the last minute where Goku took that spot from him (That whole sub-plot of Gohan having his "true powers" unlocked just went out the window, and was a waste of time!), and all the typical cliches of the DBZ universe was there and then some (and thus tiring). The whole thing just felt......tiring. I think the series should have ended at the end of the Frieza saga, it would have been a great way to end the franchise. Hell I'd forgive Toryama if he stretched it into the Cell saga, but the Majin Buu series was unneeded. Hell, don't get me started on that abomination I'd like to call Dragonball GT ( I can't believe I wanted this thing to come to the states all those years ago!).

Sorry about the long wall of text comprised of unorganized rantings, I have alot of say about the Majin Buu series. DBZ should have ended at the end of Namek and there should have been only 3, maybe 4 movies instead of the dozen movies and TV specials we got. The series just....annoys me now, which is why I never bothered watching the latest DBZ movie (the one that came out last year. Seriously, is it really any good?). Last year Screwattack's Death battle pitted Superman and Goku in a battle of pure strength. They should have had both warriors compete as to who was the most annoying.

Oh my. Well, it definitely caused a lot of bitterness for many years.

And you're right. It could have ended with Freeza. The saiyan that trained hard on Earth defeated the prince of Saiyans as well as the evil alien Overlord Freeza that was responsible for destroying so many worlds. And in the grief of his friend's death he reached the pinnacle of power-- the legendary Super Saiyan.

And then everyone and their cat started going Super Saiyan and even that became obsolete. Pretty sure when Goku conceived Goten with Chi-Chi, he had to go super saiyan for that too.

Still if we ended it at Cell, it'd be strong. Goku knowing that his future progeny would have more potential than him would step aside and let his son shine. He would be an excellent teacher and pass the torch to a powerful warrior. Gohan was unable to control his emotions and let Cell come back at him even though he should have been defeated but Goku's spirit would help Gohan overcome his mistake. In this case, Goku had not only broken so many limits and records but would also set the stage for the next ultimate warrior.

It does seem like they were always trying to end the series, as you could, but $$$$ just kept pushing for more and more.

So instead of Gohan being the new hero, Buu arc effectively reverts everything. Goku is now forcefully put back as lead, while Gohan is sidelined. His mystic form was a total waste of time. "Oh, but he's truly the best!" Derp, but does jack shit in reality. Then we learn that Gohan doesn't really have the heart of a warrior and thus stagnates. Yea, but...

Meanwhile Vegeta keeps getting thrown into pointless plotline after plotline. I did feel for him when he achieved Super Saiyan, and then lol'd when he started flailing around miserably. But they had that pointless "M" angle with him which wasn't any more to just have him be evil ago. Sure, he's always been a dick, but that doesn't really go anywhere, and then he tries to do acts of heroism which all hilariously fail. Yeah I know the Broly movie isn't canon, but that depiction of Vegeta is so typical for what happens to him. He should have just stuck with angrily breaking scouters.

Oh and then what do we get in the end?

Spoiler:

Goku abandons his family again to go fuck around and train. You really should have never come back!

[T-6000]

Heh, sorry for sounding so bitter and angry Archon. But as the saying goes "The biggest fans are often the harshest critics". I like the DBZ series and it still remains one of my most memorable Anime series but I still think it shouldn't have ragged on as long as I did and end on a good note. Thats what the creators of the A-Team opted to do, even when the show was at the height of it's popularity they decided to end the series. Sure they could have continued but they didn't want to risk dragging it on for so long that it gets tiring.

Speaking of the Buu series of Kai, so far Funimations don't have any current plans to dub the series. Which kind of surprises me, knowng they make alot of money from the DBZ franchise. Maybe it's popularity is winding down a bit here in the states?

[ChainLegacy]

I agree that Buu is the weakest saga (though I still enjoy it, even if its less than the earlier arcs).

I definitely disagree that the series should have ended at Frieza. The Cell saga was the high point of the show. Future Trunks, the "ultimate villain" comprised of everyone's powers combined, and, ultimately, all the foreshadowing regarding Gohan's massive hidden power coming to fruition.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

And then everyone and their cat started going Super Saiyan and even that became obsolete. Pretty sure when Goku conceived Goten with Chi-Chi, he had to go super saiyan for that too.

He didn't have to, but he already was. Remember, he and Gohan had trained to stay in Super Saiyan form, so he'd have already been in said form during conception.

But they had that pointless "M" angle with him which wasn't any more to just have him be evil ago. Sure, he's always been a dick, but that doesn't really go anywhere, and then he tries to do acts of heroism which all hilariously fail.

To be fair, Toriyama originally wanted to use that plot line on Piccolo to power him up into a respectable fighter again. Editors said noooooz, it has to be a Saiyan.

Originally Posted by T-6000

Speaking of the Buu series of Kai, so far Funimations don't have any current plans to dub the series. Which kind of surprises me, knowng they make alot of money from the DBZ franchise. Maybe it's popularity is winding down a bit here in the states?

Sorry, but they're full of crap. Various voice actors and actresses have already gone on record as saying they were recording lines for the Buu arc. So either Funimation is spouting crap, or someone else somehow got the license and got the same voices, which is about a 1:1,000,000 chance.

[justavisitor]

finally, we will finally know who is the strongest, Goku or Gohan??

Remember that scene where goku briefly fights against gotrunk buu in ssj3? That was actually a very brief filler as it never happened in the manga. However, that 30 sec scene creates tons of arguments for goku fans and gohan fans

I wonder whether they will cut that incredibly short "filler"??? Imo that short fight was really well done. And I think that fight should have also happened in the manga but the author took the easy way out. How conveniently for buu to convert back into the original form just when goku is finally getting serious in ssj3...

[GDB]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Remember that scene where goku briefly fights against gotrunk buu in ssj3? That was actually a very brief filler as it never happened in the manga. However, that 30 sec scene creates tons of arguments for goku fans and gohan fans

It's funny, I've never actually seen that scene brought up as a pro-Goku argument. Usually the only argument I see is "Kid Buu was stronger, and Goku beat Kid Buu!"

You know, ignoring the fact that Kid Buu was weaker than the first fat Buu and Goku was at best, as strong as that first fat Buu, while Gohan was stronger than Piccolo Absorbed Super Buu.

[justavisitor]

the pro-goku argument from that fight: goku was holding on better than gohan XD

[GDB]

The Pro-Gohan: Gohan was trying to win and getting roflstomped in the process. Goku was trying to not die.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by GDB

To be fair, Toriyama originally wanted to use that plot line on Piccolo to power him up into a respectable fighter again. Editors said noooooz, it has to be a Saiyan.

Interesting... never heard of that before. While I'd have loved a Piccolo power-up, given that he had already merged once more with Kami and become "whole" (and thus, not any more evil than your typical non-evil person) turning him Majin seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Originally Posted by GDB

It's funny, I've never actually seen that scene brought up as a pro-Goku argument. Usually the only argument I see is "Kid Buu was stronger, and Goku beat Kid Buu!"

You know, ignoring the fact that Kid Buu was weaker than the first fat Buu and Goku was at best, as strong as that first fat Buu, while Gohan was stronger than Piccolo Absorbed Super Buu.

How could Kid Buu be weaker than Fat Buu? He defeated him during the final fight (unless that was filler). Or are you saying "first Fat Buu" because the later Fat Buu is weaker? That would make sense given he's lost the strength of his "evil" component, but I never saw it delineated in the series.