Zero no Tsukaima

[KholdStare]

What's wrong with this series? Its differences in opinions are more varied than some of the most controversial shows I've seen.

The reviews don't really help much, since it's either "it rox" or "it's for hormonal, pre-teen male otakus," which doesn't really help much. The only thing I know that makes sense is that I like Shakugan no Shana, which is supposed to be similar to it in some way. What are your thoughts on this series? My list is here if anyone thinks it can help.

[Klashikari]

Personally, I pretty much disliked Zero no Tsukaima Futatsuki no Kishi.
As for the first season itself, it is fair enough on its own, though some flaws dampen its drama and such.

The problem with second season is vastly how the plot was completely underwhelming, giving toncrap of fillers and inappropriate character development "slot" (there is something VERY wrong if a sub character begins to be the center of a plot with a large develoment, while the main characters are plain sitting ducks)

Season 2 was "brilliant" (/sarcastic) with relationship which didn't evolve, but rather went forward THEN backward all the time (think of a Shana kissing Yuuji, then bitching the very next day like a yoyo).
If you actually add how they simply rushed the last episodes, while they mangled many characters personality, you know the deal.

First season can be suggested, but I would really advice not to check the second season. If Shana Second was "bad" in term of continuity (with a good chunk of filler and static development), ZNT S2 is by far worse, which was one of the worst 2007 series for me.

[jedinat]

It was a kind of okay fluff series for me, with a few annoyances. I don't know; you might like it. Shakugan no Shana is crap (especially season 2) and you apparently like it. Just take a look for yourself. The first season is entertaining because the premise is kind of interesting; the second season is only worth watching for a particularly hilarious bondage scene.

[qtipbrit]

Hi.

In my opinion, it's similar to Shakugan no Shana, though with a bit of role-reversal (same seiyuu, too.) It's less of an action series, though there are a few noteworthy action scenes, and it focuses more on romance and comedy. I would say that it's a cross between Shakugan no Shana and a harem anime, since it includes a lot of harem-type comedy situations, fanservice, jealous characters and whatnot, etc.

Oh, it also has more fantasy elements than Shakugan no Shana; it has things like magic schools, wands, talking swords, familiars, spirits, fighter planes, and other stuff in a medieval-European kind of world and lots of fun stuff.

I'd say it's a good series to try out, if you don't like it after a couple episodes, you could drop it, but it gets pretty dramatic and epic late in the first season.

Something to that effect.
I rated the first and second seasons as 7 and 6, respectively, and they're pretty enjoyable overall, though as Klash said, the second had a rather extended and mildly pointless section of its story focusing on a rather dislikable side character, but it gets some props for its last one or two episodes.

[Skyfall]

I agree with the above - the first season was a pretty fair watch, and while it wasn't anything groundbreaking it proved to be rather entertaining and interesting in terms of the plot's direction. The relationship between the two leads also progressed somewhere, albeit very slowly. Overall i was pretty satisfied with the first season, for it provided some laughs with mildly interesting plot and characters.

The second season ... lets just say i dropped it halfway through, which is rare for me. The relationship doesn't progress anywhere and keeps going in loops ... if it takes a step forward, you can be sure it will take 1.5 steps backward by the end of the episode, all due to some "misunderstanding" of stupid nature which ends up in the same repetitive gag of Louise whipping Saito for the umpteenth time. Which seems to be the only joke the staff was capable of coming up with ... it grew old already in season 1, and definitely didn't become any more funny in season 2. Add to that the underwhelming plot and i ended up dropping it on episode 7.

I will echo Klash - watch the first season if you are up for some fantasy/adventure with comedy and some romance, but watch second season at your own risk - it is among the things i would never recommend.

It isn't all that similar to Shana; personally i have no idea where the comparison is being pulled from. There is absolutely nothing similar between the two, somewhat similar personalities of the male and female leads aside. And even then i like Shana, but find Louise atrociously annoying. (depends if you like tsunderes i suppose, but she is the very extreme type). The plot, the mood (ZnT is far less serious) and the themes are not similar at all.

[Gotank]

I liked the first season quite a bit, the humor was very good, and the concepts were pretty good too. But the second season completely destroyed Saito as an even remotely respectable protagonist... So I didn't like it much... the finale (episode 12) of season 2 was very solid though. Kind of like the saving grace to the season.

[Oxtail]

You'll probably notice that some of the most vocal critics of the ZnT anime are those who've read the light novels. The characters and relationships are so much better in the novels that there's a strong sense of dissapointment with regards to the anime.

The anime tends to ditch some character development and replace it with fanservice and ecchi jokes. This diminishes the characters a bit while also making the story more shallow.

A lot of anger towards the show is a result of dissapointment with the adaptation to anime.

Spoiler for how much better the novels are:

Here's an example of what the light novels are like:

---
Louise was moving around under the sheets. Just as he was wondering what she was doing, she rested her head on his chest.

“Wha-“

“I'm just using it instead of my pillow!” Said Louise in a sulky and angry voice.

Louise placed her hands on his chest and lightly traced her fingers on it. Electricity seemed to flow through Saito’s spine.

“Don’t misunderstand me. This doesn’t mean I like you or anything!” Louise said in an embarrassed voice.

She then went back to her usual angry voice.

“Are you still going to go even if I say no?”

Saito remained silent.

“I thought so…” Louise whispered.

“This isn’t your world is it… Of course you’d want to go back.”

Louise’s hair had a beautiful fragrance. The sound of her breathing was close as well. The two were silent. Saito was thinking of many things. Saito wasn’t talking, and Louise didn’t know what else to say, so she simply hugged Saito’s chest tightly.

“I don’t want you to leave. When you’re beside me I can sleep without worrying. You make me angry…” Louise said in a tiny voice while embracing Saito.
---

I don't think this scene made it into the anime. It was probably replaced by a breast joke or Louise shouting "baka inu!" or something.

Since this is the suggestion forum, I'd suggest going to baka-tsuki and reading the ZnT novels that have been translated. Then you can join the rest of us praying that more translators help out so we can read book #8 sometime before 2011. :P

Compared to Shana, I'd say ZnT is more about the romance and relationships whereas there's a heavier emphasis on the action in Shana. Which is good because the romance in ZnT blows the dumb love triangle/harem romance in Shana out of the water.

[Oxtail]

Originally Posted by Gotank

So I didn't like it much... the finale (episode 12) of season 2 was very solid though. Kind of like the saving grace to the season.

For anyone who knows what happens in the novels, episode #12 was a complete travesty. They basically took book #8, probably the most important book in terms of Saito and Louise's development, and condensed it to like 3 minutes of the usual sad Louise/angry Louise routine.

[Sorrow-K]

Oh man, good old fashion RAAAGE thread.

Not going to disagree with anything said in this thread. First season is mindless, but a hell of a lot of fun. The second season is mindless...

Second season tries to be a lot more serious, but can't properly separate out the less serious moments (fanservice and filler, etc), and the storytelling is really subpar. And the relationship development. Ugh, atrocious.

I'd happily recommend the first season, but the second season...? Well, watch it if you must, but go in with really low expectations.

[meh]

The problem with the anime is that it tries to super-compress the novels... So naturally, only ecchi/comedy scenes are left in, while everything else gets thrown out. So it ends up discombobulated. It was just a horrible adaptation.

Of course, I'd imagine that the anime would come off much better better to someone who has never read the novels. Even then, I think season 2 was bad regardless.

[KholdStare]

Thanks all for the replies. I was expecting to watch both seasons to prepare for season 3, since only once have I ever dropped a sequel because it was so painfully bad (Tsubasa Chronicle, no discussions needed please). However, I never knew about how season 2 is way worse than season 1 at all. At AML, ZnT 1 is rated at 7.96 and ZnT 2 is rated at 7.80, with some reviews saying they like the second seasons more than the first. This is all interesting.

In short, I'll watch the first season, and I'll watch the second just because I want to see if it will make me drop it or not. I'm weird like that. But you know what they say: If your expectations are low enough, it might not be that bad after all.

[Oxtail]

I'm one of those people who actually liked season 2 more than season 1. S2 was definitely more uneven and didn't flow as well, but the topics they attempted to cover were deeper. I watched ZnT around the time I gave up on Shana 2 when they threw Hecate2 into their lame harem. So ZnT S2 episode 4 was a breath of fresh air. Yes, you create an interesting romance without making all the participants complete idiots who refuse to acknowledge their own feelings!

I would probably have reacted much more negatively to S2 if I had know about the story from the light novels beforehand, though.

[Irenicus]

It isn't the best anime ever -- the quality the storytelling and all that are pretty subpar -- but, well:

- Season 1 is a light-hearted fantasy comedy. 'Tis a fun romp provided you're not specifically looking for its many flaws or let your brain work on the same level as when you read Crime and Punishment.

- Season 2 is a waste of time. The anime series on both seasons utterly fail in anything serious and dramatic: rumor has it that the light novels do a far better job of actually being serious and such. But while the comedy of the first season makes you laugh more-or-less, the second is all about boob jokes and their pathetic variations; of course, boob jokes = utter fail. It also tries to be more dramatic and serious, with laughable results.

Although Harry Potter fans and fantasy fans in general will find Zero no Tsukaima not too bad since it does feel a lot like the anime version of the comfortably normal fantasy book you used to love. The world never has enough student-mages and dragons flying around, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Measural]

1st Season I thought was actually quite good it was amusing for me and it never was boring. 2nd season was a let down though but the last 4-5 mins of the last episode was by far one of the best parts in any anime I've seen.

[Gotank]

Originally Posted by Measural

1st Season I thought was actually quite good it was amusing for me and it never was boring. 2nd season was a let down though but the last 4-5 mins of the last episode was by far one of the best parts in any anime I've seen.

Whoa, are you serious? The last 4-5 minutes as in Saito and Louise going through the same he-stares-at-breasts-she-beats-him-up routine? Perhaps you meant what happened in that episode prior to that point?

[Fynal_Fyre]

Well, all being said and such, I AM a fan of the series, although, I haven't had the privilege to have access to the light novels, sadly, although from what I can gather, the Anime fails to properly adapt the light novels, from things like character development to relationships?

Season 1 is definitely light-hearted and definitely fun for the fantasy lover, just let your mind roam free and enjoy a peaceful romp through the lands of Tristain with Louise and Saito on their misadventures.

True, there is, to a LARGE extent, a lack of Character development in ZnT, S1 is just mindlessly fun. It's like playing a sandbox game in some ways, you don't really bother with the story, it's just plain fun to go around and do your own thing.

Season 2 was.....well....fine, if you don't read the light novels. It was...rather...well...over-flowing(pun intended) with boob jokes.....

Still, ZnT Episode 12 ended on a good note.

(Mind you, not the last 4 mins or so, I mean what happened prior to that, if ZnT:Futatsuki no Kishi had been serious on that level, it'd have been better.)

[ThoHell]

To sum it all up.

Season 1 had a plot and character development. Season 2 had really neither, instead it played out the same thing over and over.....ecchiness.

I hope season 3 is good and has some meaning......

[Measural]

I meant before the last 4-5 mins of the 2nd season had

Spoiler for End spoiler:

Saito vs 7 Million part

[Phantasmagoria]

Originally Posted by Measural

I meant before the last 4-5 mins of the 2nd season had

Spoiler for End spoiler:

Saito vs 7 Million part

HOLY, that's so wrong!!

It is :

Spoiler for End spoiler:

70k, not 7 million

[ThoHell]

Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria

HOLY, that's so wrong!!

It is :

Spoiler for End spoiler:

70k, not 7 million

LOL, it doesn't matter if it's 70K or 7 million. When you're the only single standing opposing force, it's endless!