2009-01-24, 09:30 | Link #101 | ||
Lovestruck Fool
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Quote:
As such, your idea doesn't seem to be at odds with magnuskn's. It's true that Alto still cares for Ranka, and would bring her back if it's in his power to do so. But his priorities have changed, and he's found something that he truly wants to protect. Quote:
|
||
2009-01-24, 15:26 | Link #102 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
I donīt even know if we are on the same page here anymore, because what I am saying is that Alto at this point does not care romantically about Ranka anymore ( which was only happening, a little, in the episode 12 - 17 window, anyway ), but that he still cares about her as a friend who he wants to protect. Only that his priorities have changed to such an extent by that point, that he is willing to kill her, if necessary. And also is completely comfortable staying on Frontier with Sheryl, instead of running off with SMS. Quote:
All this talk about Alto being so much an actor that he will simply act his feelings is simply a story spun by Yasaburo to Alto, so that he can get him back to acting. Yeah, Alto is a bit difficult to read at times, and I guess that comes from his acting background. But anyone who thinks that he is acting during, say, his confrontation with Sheryl about her sickness is deluding himself something fierce. And, I am sorry, but to assume that Alto is simply faking his concerns, his promises of loyalty and his love... that is assuming the absolutely worst of him, which I do not think he deserves. Only because Yasaburo says it, doesnīt make it true. Not to mention that Mr. Squinty Eyes is projecting quite fiercely onto Alto, IMO. BTW, I donīt know if I simply saw better shonen shows than you, but in the ones I saw the main character didnīt always end up with the moe-blob who needs constant protecting.
__________________
|
||
2009-01-24, 16:46 | Link #103 |
Mad Scientist #0000
|
Who said always? I said typical...
Common recipe:character: moe and nice but almost defenseless. plot to love: the main character have a crush on her and always ends upsaving her, and every time they close he starts to act like an idiot(gets emberassed, clumsy...) So in one sentence: Typical Knight-Princess relation with a growing up teenager as the "knight". Alto's possible "acting of love" actions confused me...but if he's not acting his emotions even a little then i think it'ss a clear win for Sheryl because then after the kissing scene at ep 24 he is prepared to confess her(that's why i am a bit pissed of at the first time i seen the triangle ending). Funny but Alto's most powerfull "love indications" are played very close to each other: Ranka: at the end of episode 23...his little hesitation saying to kill her was the greatest sign of his love... Sheryl: the kiss scene at the middle of episode 24. It seems like he is willing too and the stoped confession-like scene after that. As i said am a Sheryl fan and a Sheryl x Alto supporter so it's natural that i'm a bit biased to her but i think i am not so subjective at all... |
2009-01-24, 17:21 | Link #104 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
Quote:
As someone who very much believes that Alto is not in love with Ranka, I see it as the natural hesitation one would display when talking about how one maybe would have to kill a very near friend.
__________________
|
||
2009-01-24, 17:45 | Link #105 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
Quote:
That's it lol, I don't want to interfere with your discussion, but I just feel I have to say something when I look at the word "concensus" and just to clear things up...
__________________
|
|
2009-01-24, 19:07 | Link #107 |
Lovestruck Fool
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Although Klan's line has the word "love" in it, it comes in the context of a discussion where Alto has just told her that he's willing to kill Ranka for the sake of Frontier. In addition, the tone of the line itself is sorrowful. So the purpose of the line isn't to simply declare "You love Ranka!" (which could only happen in a much happier context) but rather to comment on the state of affairs between the two characters.
There are a couple of directions in which you can take this. One, as was suggested earlier, is that Alto's decision to kill Ranka indicates that he loves her and wishes to protect her honor. The problem with this line of reasoning is that Alto never specifically brings up the issue of honor in the conversation, and he doesn't set out with the specific intention of killing Ranka - he'll only do it if she's a threat to Frontier. Furthermore, you could argue that unless Alto was acting to fulfill Ranka's ideals (i.e. that Ranka would sooner die than allow herself to side with the enemy), then his actions are motivated by his own system of values, rather than out of love for her. The second possibility, which seems more likely to me, is that Klan's point is more along the lines of "Is this what's left of your love?" or "Is this what your love has become?" This ties in with how Alto's relationship with Ranka fell apart in episode twenty-one. While their relationship seemed to have promise for a while, they both ended up misleading each other. Alto believed that so long as he was with Ranka, he would have a genuine reason to pilot. Ranka, on the other hand, believed that as long as she helped Frontier fight against the Vajra, she would earn Alto's love. Their relationship finally broke down when Ranka realized that Alto only saw her as a weapon. When she finally left to be true to herself and her beliefs, Alto learned to do the same: he found something that he genuinely wanted to protect. What Klan is lamenting here is the series of mistakes that caused the two to take opposite paths, which, while painful, lead them each towards maturation. |
2009-01-24, 21:00 | Link #109 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
|
Just because he is supposedly willing to kill her doesn't mean he doesn't care for her. It simply means he has certain beliefs that he is holding above her. At this time she has fled Frontier with a vajra. If she somehow becomes an enemy of Frontier, he will kill her because he must protect Frontier. That takes precedence over Ranka. But whether he'd actually go through with it is another story completely...
I view it has a bit similar to Kallen's feelings toward Lelouch in Code Geass at the end of the series. She clearly loves him, but under the circumstances she just can't side with him and has to fight him. Her beliefs and need to protect Japan take precedence over any love she has for Lelouch. So if she must kill him, she will. Plus she only knows one side of the story and doesn't know the truth behind his actions unfortunately. Though I suppose one big difference between this situation and the one with Alto/Ranka is that if Kallen knew the truth she would have followed Lelouch. With Alto, he knows what Ranka wants to do...he just can't accept it because his hatred of the vajra is too great. Though for both sides it basically comes down to not having enough information. Anyway, I'm not saying Alto loves Ranka. Personally, I don't think he knows who the hell he is in love with. He's too indecisive on that front. But I have no doubt he does care about Ranka a lot. Just like he cares very much for Sheryl as well. Hahaha....this is the one and only time I will ever compare Ranka and Lelouch. Oh and please don't argue with me on the Kallen loves Lulu bit. It's a fact. Proven in the anime, in the official guidebook, her poems from complete best, her songs, Taniguchi, etc. Now Lelouch loving her back is a different story. I don't think he liked anyone romantically...
__________________
|
2009-01-24, 21:49 | Link #110 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
|
Quote:
Anyway. Regarding the other stuff I think we are on our best way to view what was and what is left between Alto and Ranka. And I still hope for a romantic harem triangle at the end of the movies.
__________________
|
|
2009-01-24, 22:49 | Link #111 | |
LOL'ing at t3h old bags
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 35
|
@zalem
Hey I agree with your Kallen/Alto analogy. Even I will think it's unrealistic if Alto didn't stick to his belief given with how little he knew. Quote:
|
|
2009-01-24, 23:39 | Link #112 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2009-01-25, 03:34 | Link #113 | |
Mad Scientist #0000
|
Quote:
Perhaps the "Ranka fans"(people on the side of Alto x Ranka romance) main point that Sheryl and Alto have nearly nothing of that kind of scenes. But that's nearly equal to turn a blind eye on Sheryl and Alto's scenes. They formed a relationship far stronger and closer...that's why there's no sudden rejection(like immediately after the Alto and Ranka's "hugging scene"), nor blushing scenes. There's no use to reject that. And true I was wrong...Alto's hesitation cannot be considered a sign of love, because even if Michel or Luka were in Ranka's shoes he would said that the same way...and we consider that Alto nowhere near to Bisexual(even tough that he played female roles and because it everyone calls him princess). Perhaps there's the always up phsychological question: can be true friendship beetween a man and woman without it turns out to love if the bond becomes stronger and stronger. If not that then the strongest "love scene" is where he declares that he returns with Ranka no matter what and the worriing like crazy after Ranka kidnaped. Maybe that post is a bit more biassed to Sheryl than my other posts but my opinions and beliefs always changing so it's not surprising if i write down a post with the complete opposite opinion next day. |
|
2009-01-25, 04:28 | Link #114 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
I guess that could again be this selective amnesia, but it was never made clear. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You can stop with the declarations that your posts are a bit too Sheryl-centric. Most the people on this board are very pro-Sheryl X Alto, so itīs not as if youīd upset us.
__________________
|
||||
2009-01-26, 19:30 | Link #115 |
Mad Scientist #0000
|
I think we should switch to other discussions...
For example: Michael x Klan: What do you think? He loved her from the begining just he don't want to admit to others or just after the kiss scene he realised his love? Klan's feelings almost absolute, so it's not a discussion. |
2009-01-26, 19:46 | Link #116 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
I think the creators took the easy way out by killing him. Seeing the two of them struggle with the things above and the other biological problem in their relationship would have been much more interesting.
__________________
|
|
2009-01-26, 22:59 | Link #117 |
Retired Toaster
Author
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Heck
|
I can understand Michel with his commitment issues. Getting serious IS scary based on my and other people's experiences. For Michel, it's harder, especially considering the fact that the person he loves looks like a child when micronized. If they'd go on a date, people will either think: A.) A brother-sister relationship or B.) Michel is one sick dude.
XD
__________________
|
2009-01-27, 08:28 | Link #118 |
New Macross soon
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macross 30 Emigration Fleet
|
I guess the creators really don't want to go explore the MichelxKlan relationship because of those biological difficulties. Could anyone here give some possible scenarios of what could have been? For the challenge, consider that there wasn't a "cure" for Klan's micronized form. I was thinking their relationship might be accepted in other colonies, especially those still building up its population.
|
|
|