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Old 2009-03-11, 06:38   Link #2121
RandomGuy
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Osaka
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
It's the full paragraph, don't think we need the full chapter.
Spoiler for text in japanese, saving space, and spoiler for a light novel.:
Guess I'll take a stab:
Spoiler for quick translation:
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Old 2009-03-11, 14:54   Link #2122
iLney
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Join Date: Aug 2008
そのスーパーへはよく来るんですか。」
「時々来ます

Is something wrong with those?

What does "へは" mean? Or it's just へ only?
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Old 2009-03-11, 15:38   Link #2123
MiserySyndrome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
そのスーパーへはよく来るんですか。」
「時々来ます

Is something wrong with those?

What does "へは" mean? Or it's just へ only?
"へは" literally translated means "To"
"へ" means to as well
But if I'm not mistaking it depends on the following sign with へは
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Old 2009-03-11, 16:43   Link #2124
soka
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Argentina
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
そのスーパーへはよく来るんですか。」
「時々来ます

Is something wrong with those?

What does "へは" mean? Or it's just へ only?
は is the topic marker. When making a noun the topic of the sentence は replaces the particles が or を and is added after other particles like で に へ から まで.

私の学校では日本語が習えます
In my school you can learn Japanese.

私は学校で日本語が習えます
I can learn Japanese in the school.
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Old 2009-03-11, 20:43   Link #2125
Rembr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
It's the full paragraph, don't think we need the full chapter.
Spoiler for text in japanese, saving space, and spoiler for a light novel.:
The previous suggestions still seem fine to me.

Maybe 'A back that doesn't turn around'

It'll depend on what you want to convey, a literal translation or a general feeling.
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Old 2009-03-11, 20:59   Link #2126
Ryuou
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 35
@ ganbaru - I think you have quite a bit of choices to choose from, so just choose the one that sounds the best to you. Or modify it a bit to fit how you like it. I don't know how many more ways we can come up with to translate it. The meaning's are all right, so yeah, just choose what you like.

Quote:
そのスーパーへはよく来るんですか。」
「時々来ます
This sounds odd to me. If you want to use 来る then using その is kind of weird. It should be この. If you want to use その then you should use 行く. And it might be better to switch the particle to in that case.
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Old 2009-03-12, 08:14   Link #2127
liquidroof
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I think Learning Japanes is like mixing the stone in the water.

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Old 2009-03-12, 10:32   Link #2128
RandomGuy
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidroof View Post
I think Learning Japanes is like mixing the stone in the water.
Maybe you should concentrate on English first, then.

Anyone care to interpret that metaphor(?)?
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Old 2009-03-12, 11:24   Link #2129
nikorai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomguy View Post
maybe you should concentrate on english first, then.

Anyone care to interpret that metaphor(?)?
日本語を勉強することは無駄なことをするということです。(=暖簾に腕押し・豆腐に鎹 など)
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:36   Link #2130
Rembr
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Quote:
This sounds odd to me. If you want to use 来る then using その is kind of weird. It should be この. If you want to use その then you should use 行く. And it might be better to switch the particle to in that case.
I did a double take on that too. Since the entire conversation is not shown, the quote may be referring to a third party, like:

"Does that person come to that supermarket often?"

"Sometimes s/he comes"
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Old 2009-03-12, 15:27   Link #2131
Ryuou
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 35
Hmm...if we're talking third person then the only way I see it working would be if that person lives faraway, and the super market is close by somewhere. Then that person's coming from faraway to “come” into this area to go the supermarket would make sense I guess. But I would still change "he" for "ni".
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Old 2009-03-14, 16:49   Link #2132
Yukinokesshou
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
Pet peeves

Just wondering if anyone shares my pet peeves about Japanese textbooks for English speakers? Nothing is more annoying than...

1. Textbooks which are in romaji for the first 200 pages. Honestly, it takes only an hour of your time to memorise hiragana and katakana. That's equivalent to one night's worth of Japanese homework.

2. Textbooks which don't contain a single kanji. Or textbooks designed for a year-long course which introduce no more than 30 kanji. Well, maybe I'm slightly biased since I had to memorise 30~50 kanji a week in primary school -.-

I guess the only things that might be worse are Korean textbooks that are completely in romaji (yes they do exist, sheer horror!). Hangul, in all their beautiful simplicity and elegance, can be memorised in 15 minutes...
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Old 2009-03-14, 17:32   Link #2133
Circular Logic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Just wondering if anyone shares my pet peeves about Japanese textbooks for English speakers? Nothing is more annoying than...

1. Textbooks which are in romaji for the first 200 pages. Honestly, it takes only an hour of your time to memorise hiragana and katakana. That's equivalent to one night's worth of Japanese homework.

2. Textbooks which don't contain a single kanji. Or textbooks designed for a year-long course which introduce no more than 30 kanji. Well, maybe I'm slightly biased since I had to memorise 30~50 kanji a week in primary school -.-
Oh, those are HORRIBLE. Then again those are the ones you get for general audiences - 'Teach Yourself Japanese in 15 minutes' and all that. I often get the feeling that people who buy those are never really that serious in the first place...

Quote:
I guess the only things that might be worse are Korean textbooks that are completely in romaji (yes they do exist, sheer horror!). Hangul, in all their beautiful simplicity and elegance, can be memorised in 15 minutes...
Learning all the pronunciation rules on the other hand, takes far longer.
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Old 2009-03-14, 21:29   Link #2134
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Just wondering if anyone shares my pet peeves about Japanese textbooks for English speakers? Nothing is more annoying than...

1. Textbooks which are in romaji for the first 200 pages. Honestly, it takes only an hour of your time to memorise hiragana and katakana. That's equivalent to one night's worth of Japanese homework.

2. Textbooks which don't contain a single kanji. Or textbooks designed for a year-long course which introduce no more than 30 kanji. Well, maybe I'm slightly biased since I had to memorise 30~50 kanji a week in primary school -.-
You are not alone.
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Old 2009-03-15, 16:40   Link #2135
iLney
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Join Date: Aug 2008
I recommend MangaJin. It's excellent. Or you can try the lighter Japanese in Mangaland.
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Old 2009-03-15, 17:37   Link #2136
Alchemist007
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I wish the post WW2 'get ride of kanji' thing was successful. I hate all this memorization. Kana ftmfw.
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Old 2009-03-15, 17:49   Link #2137
Circular Logic
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And get rid of the beauty of Chinese characters?! Philistine!
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Old 2009-03-15, 17:50   Link #2138
Yukinokesshou
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I wish the post WW2 'get ride of kanji' thing was successful. I hate all this memorization. Kana ftmfw.
Okay, here's a story for you...

When my grandfather went to South Korea on business trips in the 1970s, communication was easy. Although he spoke Chinese and they spoke Korean, once everyone put pen to paper and expressed their thoughts in a few kanji (mostly nouns), a degree of mutual understanding was possible. My grandfather could also understand all street signs, maps, restaurant menus, etc.

A Japanese businessman who went to South Korea in the 1970s would have experienced the same ease of communication and understanding. Ditto for Chinese people in Japan and Japanese people in China today.

However, South Korea gradually got rid of kanji over the last 30 years. When my grandfather visited in the late 1990s, communication was no longer possible without an interpreter. For Japanese visitors, Seoul's government had to design special maps and translate signs... into katakana.

In some respects, kanji and Confucianism are the two thin threads which hold together the mutually hostile and vindictive nations of East Asia. Let's preserve them, by all means.

Addendum: Another consideration would be the insane number of homonyms in East Asian languages. South Korea is facing this very problem now; despite the loss of kanji in everyday life, Korean books and newspapers still need to insert kanji once in a while to clarify the meaning of certain words.
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Old 2009-03-15, 21:40   Link #2139
Mystique
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I wish the post WW2 'get ride of kanji' thing was successful. I hate all this memorization. Kana ftmfw.
慣行 【かんこう】 (adj-no,n) customary practice, customary practise, habit, traditional event, (P)
敢行 【かんこう】 (n) decisive action, (P)
刊行 【かんこう】 (n) publication, issue, (P)
完工 【かんこう】 (n,vs) completion, (P)
観光 【かんこう】 (n,vs) sightseeing, (P)
寛厚 【かんこう】 (adj-na,n) (uk) kindness, largeheartedness
勧降 【かんこう】 (n) call to surrender
勧工 【かんこう】 (n) encouragement of industry
緩行 【かんこう】 (n) going slowly
緘口 【かんこう】 (n) keeping silent
勘考 【かんこう】 (n,vs) consider
感光 【かんこう】 (n,vs) exposure, sensitization, sensitisation
勘校 【かんこう】 (n,vs) examination and correction
箝口 【かんこう】 (n,vs) gagging, hushing up

And if that isn't enough....
講堂 【こうどう】 (n) auditorium, (P)
坑道 【こうどう】 (n) tunnel, (mine) level, (P)
行動 【こうどう】 (n,vs) action, conduct, behaviour, behavior, mobilization, mobilisation, (P)
黄銅 【こうどう】 (n) brass
黄道 【こうどう】 (n) ecliptic
孝道 【こうどう】 (n) filial piety
公道 【こうどう】 (n) public road, justice
皇道 【こうどう】 (n) the benevolent Imperial rule, the Imperial Way
香道 【こうどう】 (n) traditional incense-smelling game
高堂 【こうどう】 (n) you, your beautiful home

And I've not even scratched the tip of the surface, this is just a preview of the horrorsbeauty of this homophonic language.
What until you get onto all the tonal ways of pronouncing each one depending on which part of Japan you're from, then it's lots of fun.
</reason why kanji is needed>

The pain of memorisation is felt within the natives too, not just us foreigners, but it's all about how you approach it (as with most things in life)
Make a game about it, have fun, learn kanji for everyday items that you use and come across so it becomes instantly practical, rather than just rote memorisation of words you're not likely to see, let alone use.

If it's really too much of a bother, then don't learn kanji but you'll remain illiterate to the Japanese language.
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Old 2009-03-15, 21:45   Link #2140
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I wish the post WW2 'get ride of kanji' thing was successful. I hate all this memorization. Kana ftmfw.
Oh no, definitely not. That would be horrible. Having everything in only kana is almost as bad as everything in romaji. Kanji may be painful to learn but it's very beneficial.
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