[Anime-only] Naruto Shippuden Episode 213 Discussion

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I liked this episode and the last one too, they sum up the relation of Naruto and Sakura with Sasuke. And this is important to fully understand the upcoming episodes, to understand the behavior of both Sakura and Naruto when it comes to dealing with Sasuke. This anime/manga is about 10 years old, most people don't remember all that was shown in these 2 episodes, so these episodes were important. But those who remember everything what happened in these 10 years with some fictional characters of a manga and now hate these 2 episodes because of that maybe should think a bit if they are too much of narutards Of course with this i'm not saying that i'm not a narutard myself

These flashbacks got quality moments in them, and most are indeed plot-important, however...some of them (ESPECIALLY the early Naruto/Sasuke scenes and the VotE fight) have been used soooo many times they are truly impossible to forget, and the last arc (not to mention the last episode) had its share of them as well. In fact, the training lunchtime will have been used two times in three weeks, come next week, and that is what I see as unnecessary filler. You don't have to be a naruto maniac to remember what happened two weeks ago...

EDIT: Poll change seems fitting this week

[Casshern]

I agree. After so many years it's easy to forget the significance of the bonds team 7 formed, but these flashbacks really put their current actions in perspective. I really didn't enjoy this part when I was reading the manga because I thought Sakura had lost the plot and Naruto was spazzing out a bit too much over Sasuke, but watching it animated and with the flashbacks is much more enjoyable to me because I see that their actions really do make sense in that context.

Ultimately, Sasuke was the goal for both Naruto and Sakura in many ways and that drove them both to reach the level they're at now. But just as Sasuke was their motivation, he needs them even more so now. No one but Naruto is strong enough to accept Sasuke's hatred, and no one but Sakura will always forgive him.

Tbh I never thought much of the Naruto franchise. I always considered it a decent manga for kids and nothing more; but looking back at the series I'm starting to think that the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke is possibly the most impressive I've seen in a manga/anime.

As for the flashbacks, personally I was never one to watch/read the whole series over and over again. I've only gone through each episode and chapter once since the series started and that's it. So I'm actually enjoying viewing these scenes that I haven't watched in years. It's the flashbacks of scenes that happened in the previous episode, or worse still in the very same episode, that I can't stand.

[MidnightViper88]

WELL THAT SUCKED, WHAT A WASTE OF TIME, THIS STINKS, THIS IS BS!

...

OK, got that out of my system...Now I shall play the devil's advocate and justify what reason 20 minutes of my life can be just flushed down a toilet like that...

For all practical purposes, the flashbacks that were showcased in this episode that were pulled from the original Naruto scenes were aired over 100 years ago, or roughly a little under a decade to be more specific...I wouldn't accuse anyone of having the memory lapse of a goldfish (Though I won't deny the existence of), but if anyone were to have watched Naruto as the episodes aired on their respective original dates, that's a long time ago to remember much of anything...Yeah, one might remember in general what happened, but can't remotely recite what was said verbatim, and thus might also forget the underlying purpose of that scene's importance...It sucks for me, because I sat down one summer and caught myself up by watching every single episode, back-to-back, for days on end, in a compressed amount of time, and washed myself in 3 years worth of stuff in mere weeks, so I had the luxury of more retained memory without the constraint of time...For someone else, maybe not so much...

On top of that, it relishes the character development that's happening thus far...The manga doesn't have the panels to go through in deep detail the psychological justifications and changes that have shaped someone over a period of time, showing comparisons, contrasting things, and showcasing juxtapositions; The anime can, because it only takes a couple minutes to read a chapter, but it takes about 20 minutes to cover an episode...In this episode's case, it shows how much someone like Naruto, who started off as a carefree dork who just wanted to be as cool as Sasuke, changed so much into becoming a messiah with the resolve to bring change to a worldwide ideological and humanitarian quagmire..To go from child to a person with absolute purpose is a lot to go through, and it's tough to see that change gradually over time without the context of immediate compare/contrast put side-by-side, much in the same way you'd be used to your sibling growing up in front of your eyes but be completely surprised by a slideshow of photos showing just such...You know? It's like all of a sudden Naruto's like this, and Sakura's like that, but the flashbacks show us back during the time when Naruto was like that and Sakura was like this; They're far from kids anymore, and the stakes that their lives are fighting for are after higher wages than ever before, so their maturity is much welcomed for development, and better understood this way instead of being presented as almost instantaneous without context...

And besides, the anime team is trying to wring these flashbacks out as much as possible for a short period of time so that they won't be forced to make up non-canon filler to throw in a buffer zone between the anime and manga material...We've already seen the horrors of what happens when the anime overtakes the manga source material...If they do it in short douses at this frequency, they won't catch up so quickly, and even semi-canon filler is alright, since it still moves the manga story along, slowly, but still otherwise...I mean, we really don't want another entire season's worth of flashback filler like what happened just this past fall/winter, do we? I'll take two or three episodes of flashbacks if it prevents an entire season's worth...

Besides, just calm yo tits down; The preview says Kakashi and Sasuke gowna scrap next week, so it's all good!

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Says the person who has Sakura in the signature

lol, you got me there. But somehow Naruto's flashbacks didn't piss me off as much as Sakura's flashbacks...meh.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

I mean, we really don't want another entire season's worth of flashback filler like what happened just this past fall/winter, do we? I'll take two or three episodes of flashbacks if it prevents an entire season's worth...

Seems peoples opinions become very divided on matters such as this. Many are willing to endure through long filler arcs if it means getting more enjoyable canon arcs with good pacing. Others don't mind sacrificing the quality and pacing of a canon arc (such as this) if it means less fillers. IMO, it just comes down to how you want to take your dosages of filler. I personally hate having so much of it mixed into canon material, because when it's done that way, I'm forced to watch a lot of it just so I know I didn't miss any canon content spliced throughout. On the other hand, entire filler arcs are better for me since I can simply choose to take a break from the show for awhile if I'm not liking it. I find that easier to deal with. Especially since there always seems to be at least one new good (in comparison to Naruto filler) season-long anime series to find that I can use to wait out the filler storms.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Besides, just calm yo tits down; The preview says Kakashi and Sasuke gowna scrap next week, so it's all good!

I hope for the anime teams' sake you're right. Because 3 fan animators on youtube already produced an entertaining vid of Kakashi & Sasuke's reunion. So it would be a shame if in hindsight, the fan animators made it more fun and exciting to watch than the anime team does.

[Vorenus]

Well, it was boring indeed... and I watched 212 and 213 in a row as I was too busy to watch it last week, so feel my pain...

From an artistical point of view, I didn't mind having some key scenes of Part1 reanimated in widescreen and higher definition.
I also thought it was nice though to see the point of view of the two characters who are chasing after Sasuke at the moment, namely Sakura and Naruto, who want to deal with the situation in two much different ways.
The flashbacks made it boring, but it can't really be helped considering we're so close of the manga.

Originally Posted by sayde

Seems peoples opinions become very divided on matters such as this. Many are willing to endure through long filler arcs if it means getting more enjoyable canon arcs with good pacing. Others don't mind sacrificing the quality and pacing of a canon arc (such as this) if it means less fillers. IMO, it just comes down to how you want to take your dosages of filler. I personally hate having so much of it mixed into canon material, because when it's done that way, I'm forced to watch a lot of it just so I know I didn't miss any canon content spliced throughout. On the other hand, entire filler arcs are better for me since I can simply choose to take a break from the show for awhile if I'm not liking it. I find that easier to deal with. Especially since there always seems to be at least one new good (in comparison to Naruto filler) season-long anime series to find that I can use to wait out the filler storms.

I personally prefer to have canon arcs with good pacing and a relatively long filler arc after all.
Flashbacks are not enough to leave the manga progress enough and just waste the quality of the canon arcs. That's part of what completely ruined the first part of Naruto Shippuden.

I don't mind flashbacks if they are relatively well done and have a reasonably good story to tell... which obviously doesn't happen often. I didn't hate the relatively long filler with Guren, the crystal-style user, or with Sora, the pseudo-Kyuubi Jinchuuriki, for example.
In some ways, these had a relation to the story, even if far fetched, rather than being completely stand-alone and completely generic one-dimensional villains.

Another problem now is that Naruto is so powerful with Sage Mode that there are not so many Ninjas who can actually handle him now.
It would be hard to believe he would struggle against generic villains or bandits, or Naruto to struggle for several episodes and not using Sage Mode.
That's probably part of why the show went with Part 1 fillers last time, rather than Shippuuden fillers, which were also harder to place within the story-line.
To workaround this problem, we could see more of the other teams though, like Gai's or Shikamaru's...

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by octaviahawk

lol, you got me there. But somehow Naruto's flashbacks didn't piss me off as much as Sakura's flashbacks...meh.

Well I can understand you, her Sasuke fangirlism was never a plus
If remove this major aspect, she would rise in many fans eyes.

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Well I can understand you, her Sasuke fangirlism was never a plus
If remove this major aspect, she would rise in many fans eyes.

I hear you. I mean, she's pretty awesome- arguably, one of the most awesome female characters in the show- but then she's all drooling over Sasuke-kuuuuuuuuun- ugh. Then to have the same old flashbacks, over and over again, the same sappy "I love you Sasuke-kuuuuuun" flashbacks we've been tortured with repeatedly for the duration of the show- gah.

Ok I'm done now End rant.

[kirisute_gomen]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

WELL THAT SUCKED, WHAT A WASTE OF TIME, THIS STINKS, THIS IS BS!

...

OK, got that out of my system...Now I shall play the devil's advocate and justify what reason 20 minutes of my life can be just flushed down a toilet like that...

For all practical purposes, the flashbacks that were showcased in this episode that were pulled from the original Naruto scenes were aired over 100 years ago, or roughly a little under a decade to be more specific...I wouldn't accuse anyone of having the memory lapse of a goldfish (Though I won't deny the existence of), but if anyone were to have watched Naruto as the episodes aired on their respective original dates, that's a long time ago to remember much of anything...Yeah, one might remember in general what happened, but can't remotely recite what was said verbatim, and thus might also forget the underlying purpose of that scene's importance...It sucks for me, because I sat down one summer and caught myself up by watching every single episode, back-to-back, for days on end, in a compressed amount of time, and washed myself in 3 years worth of stuff in mere weeks, so I had the luxury of more retained memory without the constraint of time...For someone else, maybe not so much...

The real fans all know that's happened because they are desperately waiting for a solution! Yes, a solution… or rather... redemption.
I know that some babies hadn't even been born back then, but do I care about them? I want my salvation and I want it now. I want it now. I want it now. I just want it now.


[QUOTE=MidnightViper88;3628795]
On top of that, it relishes the character development that's happening thus far...The manga doesn't have the panels to go through in deep detail the psychological justifications and changes that have shaped someone over a period of time, showing comparisons, contrasting things, and showcasing juxtapositions; The anime can, because it only takes a couple minutes to read a chapter, but it takes about 20 minutes to cover an episode...[/QUOTES]
It took me ages and ages to watch this… it was torturous. Nothing can make me feel batter about this episode because they used every bit of the episode to slowly show some weird flashback (without the cool flashback greyscale thing from back in the days!)


[QUOTE=MidnightViper88;3628795]
In this episode's case, it shows how much someone like Naruto, who started off as a carefree dork who just wanted to be as cool as Sasuke, changed so much into becoming a messiah with the resolve to bring change to a worldwide ideological and humanitarian quagmire..To go from child to a person with absolute purpose is a lot to go through, and it's tough to see that change gradually over time without the context of immediate compare/contrast put side-by-side, much in the same way you'd be used to your sibling growing up in front of your eyes but be completely surprised by a slideshow of photos showing just such...

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

You know? It's like all of a sudden Naruto's like this, and Sakura's like that, but the flashbacks show us back during the time when Naruto was like that and Sakura was like this; They're far from kids anymore, and the stakes that their lives are fighting for are after higher wages than ever before, so their maturity is much welcomed for development, and better understood this way instead of being presented as almost instantaneous without context...

I don't know... Unchu Kan'u is a fighter, Son Goku is a figher, Ichigo is a figher… to call Sakura a fighter is a little far-fetched.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

And besides, the anime team is trying to wring these flashbacks out as much as possible for a short period of time so that they won't be forced to make up non-canon filler to throw in a buffer zone between the anime and manga material...

I prefer the Chili of Life to flashbacks. It's as simple as that. Besides, it's extra material and it can be used for AMVs.

[wingdarkness]

Well as flashback episodes go it wasn't really that bad..I mean I rolled my eyes about 12 times, but a really bad naruto ep averages about 25 eye rolls...I like that I got to see Kimmimaru again and remember how cool he was, and I even enjoyed revisiting the Itachi-genjutsu scene which I had honestly forgotten about...So as sucky flashbacks eps are this wasn't changing the genre...

The only thing that gets me is the Sasuke obsession...I mean all "jokes" aside on Naruto's epic mancrush on the dude...To think he even dreams about Sasuke, $hit bro...Naruto might be the most deeply thoughtful protagonist there is in all of shonen-fight...It's almost the most annoying part of his character because of the mind-numbing repetitiveness of it...And here we are yet again...Naruto running off to save Sasuke yet again...I wish I could feel some semblance on non-annoyance with this, but how can I not? Because this is Naruto...

[Essenar]

Don't worry guys.

I'm pretty sure we just have to see Kakashi's flashbacks for a whole episode as he rushes to stop Sasuke from murder-death-killing Sakura for thinking she's strong enough to stand up to Over-9000 Sasuke.

And then we have to see Sasuke's flashbacks right before he responds to Sakura wanting to join him, for another episode.

And then we have an episode where Sakura has flashbacks about having flashbacks.

Once we get around to Shikamaru's flashbacks about telling Naruto not to day dream so much when he's jumping through trees at about 80 miles per hour, we'll finally get to whatever happens between Sasuke and Sakura.